Rumor: Nick Kypreos: “We know that the Habs are actively shopping Max Pacioretty” [Mod Warning #897]

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Fazkovsky

Registered User
Sep 4, 2013
7,248
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Subban-Sergachev
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Pateryn

Great d-corps !!!

Beaulieu sucks . Peteryn is ok but nothing special . Markov would be old by now and gone soon . Emelin meh . Subban while being very good wouldn’t have carried the team . Sergachev would have created a lot of turnovers and would have took 5 years to thrive as much as he does in Tampa now.

Welcome to habs town
 
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Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,585
5,218
dont like these post, butterfly effect written all over them.

We wouldnt had X if we dint move Y and so on and so on.

Huh, "butterfly effect" doesn't apply at all to that scenario. We're not talking McDonagh here.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
He was given what, a two games leash after being back earlier than expected from injury? The organization, for whatever reason, has made up their mind that he isn't a center, and they won't even consider the possibility that they're wrong. In spite of the fact Galchenyuk has, literally, always produced at a significantly higher clip when used as a center.

But sure. Not producing right away after coming back from a serious injury is all that we need to draw conclusions here. Forget the 23 points in 24 games, or whatever it was, that he had before getting injured. That's irrelevant...

It was quite obvious that Galchenyuk came back too soon after his knee injury. It's a very bad policy that is seen in all professional sports.

Now it's not entirely on management, since frequently players will hide symptoms from team doctors, but the overall systemic mantra that "if you can walk, you can play", is detrimental to the immediate health of players and often long term as well.

We've seen it recently with Weber. He was playing with an injury and eventually the lack of recuperation time took him out for a prolonged period.

It's similar with Galchenyuk. Anyone who was paying attention could see that his skating and general fitness were compromised when he returned. The team's answer was to start dropping him down the lineup, rather than recognize he just needed more recuperation.

He still eventually managed to make some important contributions, but who knows how much better his game would have been had his healing been a priority.

Perhaps if Marc Bergevin had built a team with some semblance of depth, the Habs would be more patient before rushing injured players back to the ice.
 
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groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
His track record with depth players looks better because he's acquired a tonne of them and a stopped clock is right twice a day. Murray, Parros, Ott, Martinsen were all depth disasters that still managed to hurt the team despite being depth guys and then you have actual depth guys like Briere and Alzner who he thought were important players.

He's bad at evaluating talent from top to bottom

That's all true, of course. My implication was simply that he's had more success with lesser players. Obviously one of the reasons why is sheer volume.
 

Kwikwi

Registered User
Feb 13, 2009
2,244
1,397
Huh, "butterfly effect" doesn't apply at all to that scenario. We're not talking McDonagh here.

if you keep Subban instead of weber we might draft number 13 so no Sergachev.

The butterfly effect is a concept that states that "small causes can have larger effects".
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,844
13,628
Good player, underpaid, poor leader.I don't blame him for this whole fiasco, I wish him well.Now trade Price and Weber too so we can rebuild.
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,585
5,218
if you keep Subban instead of weber we might draft number 13 so no Sergachev.

The butterfly effect is a concept that states that "small causes can have larger effects".

I know what a butterfly effect is, and I know you're applying it wrong.


Hanifin + lindholm for pac and a 2nd?

Sure, but it'd never happen.

Don't think they'd even swap Hanifin for Max.
 
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Uncle Gary

Registered User
Apr 12, 2014
5,206
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Scariest part is that in 2018-2019 we could potentially have:

Sergachev - Subban
Mete - Petry
Juulsen - Jerabek

Looks night and day compared to what we are icing today.
Incredible when you lay it out like that.
If going from that to:

Alzner-Weber
Mete-Petry
Jerabek-Juulsen

doesn't get you fired, I don't know what will.
 
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Masao

Registered User
Nov 24, 2002
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masaohf.atspace.com
One thing that hurts is that the Habs have been way, way, way less patient with Jacques Demers and Serge Savard, who lead the team to the Stanley Cup, than with Therrien and Bergevin.
 

Kobe Armstrong

Registered User
Jul 26, 2011
14,979
5,805
If we had kept Subban, there wouldn't have been such a desperate need for Sergachev. Which Bergevin pissed away for some magic beans.

We also traded Subban AFTER we drafted Sergachev and Mete, so that guys "butterfly effect" claim doesn't even make sense.

There's also a 0% chance Serg scores like he does with Tampa in Montreal.
 

OldCraig71

Registered User
Feb 2, 2009
34,832
53,888
No one cares
One thing that hurts is that the Habs have been way, way, way less patient with Jacques Demers and Serge Savard, who lead the team to the Stanley Cup, than with Therrien and Bergevin.

Brilliant post, no big stats, no big links but so true. What in the f*** is so great about Bergevin and his cronies past and present that makes them so irreplaceable? Pro sport should be based on winning and there are plenty of up and coming great minds in all of the big 4 sports in NA just waiting for a chance to be the next biggest thing!!! It is a lucrative business for the most innovative minds but yet we remain loyal to a bunch of nobodies and why? Why can't we hire the best professionals available in the hockey world? Do we want to win people or do we want to be proud?
 
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Kudo Shinichi

Registered User
Apr 20, 2012
20,346
26,100
Scariest part is that in 2018-2019 we could potentially have:

Sergachev - Subban
Mete - Petry
Juulsen - Jerabek

Looks night and day compared to what we are icing today.

Well we have
x - Weber
Mete - Petry
Juulsen - Jerabek

not really a big difference
Instead of having sergachev at defense, we have drouin at forward
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
We also traded Subban AFTER we drafted Sergachev and Mete, so that guys "butterfly effect" claim doesn't even make sense.

There's also a 0% chance Serg scores like he does with Tampa in Montreal.

There's an argument to be made that the order of the Subban trade - Sergachev draft isn't important.

Subban is traded first, they need to draft someone with similar skills. Sergachev is drafted first, it's in order to allow a Subban trade.
 
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Price is Wright

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
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essex
If we had kept Subban, there wouldn't have been such a desperate need for Sergachev. Which Bergevin pissed away for some magic beans.

Actually, there would be.

See, keeping Subban just means the 1RD is still set for years. But the team still needed to replace Markov eventually, and move Markov down the lineup. Had we kept both, Sergachev would be playing on Subban's right side and learning from Subban, so his development would still be pretty good. Markov could begin limiting his minutes and not be expected to be a 20 minute defenceman anymore. That added with Mete and Jerabek in the system, as well as Juulsen, and the team looks good on defence for years to come and doesn't have to focus in that department for a while.

Instead we trade Subban for old man Weber, who already looks like his days in Montreal are numbered and we won't be getting better for him. Sergachev is gone, so it all falls upon Mete/Jerabek/Juulsen to become top guys, instead of being behind top guys Sergachev and Subban. Way more pressure. Instead of Mete being a happy surprise that becomes a 2LD behind Sergachev, we gotta hope he develops into a 1LD.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
24,984
21,988
Orleans
Incredible when you lay it out like that.
If going from that to:

Alzner-Weber
Mete-Petry
Jerabek-Juulsen

doesn't get you fired, I don't know what will.
But we wouldn't have Drouin as a forward, we didn't deal Sergachev for a conditional 7th round pick!!!.......and let's be real, does Sergachev have these numbers with Montreal?......does Drouin have his numbers here if playing for Tampa?
 
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