Recalled/Assigned: Nic Petan assigned to the Moose.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
I think we are all in the boat that we want all of our players to improve to their full potential. That we want Petan to succeed. That we want him to score goals. I don't see anyone arguing with that YWG. Some people think that he was not put in a position to succeed. Okay, well, he can just improve in the A and make another team trade for him. Both the sides that say hey he got a shot at the NHL he didn't make the most of it that more than most ever get and the side that say yes but he was paired with Thor have no qualms about him upping his game and value.
 

Hank Chinaski

Registered User
May 29, 2007
20,804
3,015
YFO
Most of those experts focus purely on analytics. You have to take both analytics and the eye test into account. Petan fails the eye test miserably.

Okay, so what's creating the discrepancy between the eye test and the results (aka "the analytics")?

It's worth noting that very few people here -even Petan's biggest proponents - have argued that he's producing amazing results. It almost makes me wonder if people are actually reading and digesting the arguments that people like Garret have been making, versus just glazing them over. "Decimal here, graph there...yeah not worth my time".
 

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
Heck, I would even start him on the Jets next year if he becomes faster than Tanev. I know that is asking a lot of him, but, I'm willing to get over my bias and give him another chance in that case.
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
21,738
4,380
Vancouver
www.hockey-graphs.com
Okay, so what's creating the discrepancy between the eye test and the results (aka "the analytics")?

It's worth noting that very few people here -even Petan's biggest proponents - have argued that he's producing amazing results. It almost makes me wonder if people are actually reading and digesting the arguments that people like Garret have been making, versus just glazing them over. "Decimal here, graph there...yeah not worth my time".

Also, it's not numbers vs the eye test... but one person's eye test supported by numbers vs another person's eye test.
(Note: this doesn't make the first eye test right... but saying that people are blindly producing an opinion without their own personal viewings is ridiculous)

I thought Petan DID look good in those situations where he was playing away from Thor/Tanev.
I thought Petan DID look lost in those situations where he was playing with Thor/Tanev.
 

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
So everyone is happy so let's trade him for a second rounder and call it a day, everyone wins. As right now the Jets are pretty deep. They need a guy like Tanev who will make the big heart play like stopping the puck with his teeth. If they get rid of Hendricks his spot goes to either a gritty guy like Lemieux who will the game changing body check which will regain momentum or the upcoming star Roslo. But, let Petan go to another team and be a Martin St Louis if he can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GJF

JetsHomer

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
10,941
3,146
how about just show that you belong. both tanev and thorburn are regulars in the nhl. they are not the problem.
Petan is better than both Tanev or Thorburn. This post is the illustration of how Petan was never given a chance. Tanev and Thorburn being in the NHL while Petan languishes in the AHL is a joke.
 

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
Petan is better than both Tanev or Thorburn. This post is the illustration of how Petan was never given a chance. Tanev and Thorburn being in the NHL while Petan languishes in the AHL is a joke.
You are entitled to your opinion I disagree about Tanev.
 

JetsHomer

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
10,941
3,146
So everyone is happy so let's trade him for a second rounder and call it a day, everyone wins. As right now the Jets are pretty deep. They need a guy like Tanev who will make the big heart play like stopping the puck with his teeth. If they get rid of Hendricks his spot goes to either a gritty guy like Lemieux who will the game changing body check which will regain momentum or the upcoming star Roslo. But, let Petan go to another team and be a Martin St Louis if he can.
Why would we move him for a second round pick that has maybe a 20% chance of even becoming a bottom 6er, 4 years from now?Like him or hate him, his odds of being an impact or even just NHL quality player is far greater than that if a random 2nd

You are entitled to your opinion I disagree about Tanev.
Petan has double Tanev’s points in like 10 extra games. Literally the only thing Tanev is better at is being fast. Petan is the far superior hockey player.
 

Weezeric

Registered User
Jan 27, 2015
4,467
6,526
Why would we move him for a second round pick that has maybe a 20% chance of even becoming a bottom 6er, 4 years from now?Like him or hate him, his odds of being an impact or even just NHL quality player is far greater than that if a random 2nd


Petan has double Tanev’s points in like 10 extra games. Literally the only thing Tanev is better at is being fast. Petan is the far superior hockey player.

Tanev also has zero pp mins. How's the 5v5 scoring compare?
 

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
Tanev may not score but he kills penalties. Petan doesn't. Players like Tanev change the momentum of the game when you aren't scoring. They are the gritty guys who will do something that shows heart that turns the momentum around. So, no Tanev is the far superior hockey player. Tanev will throw a punch for a teammate I doubt Petan would.

Also if you discount those intangibles and you take Tanev out the fact is Lemieux and Roslo would both be called up first. Since both are better goal scorers and the Jets need finishers more than they need playmakers. Roslo and Lemieux have also penalty killed something Petan has not done.
 

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
If we filled Petan in Tanev's spot everyone would say why are we playing him with scrubs he can't produce in that spot. Yet, that is exactly the spot we need someone to do something from. Tanev gets the puck in deep gets the goalie to freeze the puck and boom we have an offensive face-off for one of the first two lines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jet and tacogeoff

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,043
31,512
Florida
Did I say that? Do the majority of fans say that? Or is everyone who looks for positives with Petan getting lumped into the same faceless "group" as everyone else that might try to find a positive with this prospect?

It's next to impossible to have any semblance of reasonable discussion about this prospect because it appears that some will only be happy to validate their opinions when he "fails". Unfortunately, that means we as fans of the Jets lose - we get NOTHING for him as an asset.

Whether he ever plays for the Jets again, anyone who counts themselves as a Jets fan should want him to improve, if only to improve our lot in a trade with another team.

Agree, or disagree? If some pull out the stats and usage regarding Petan, it's to fight the "he's a bust because he can't improve Thor" narrative on the other side.

It's an incredibly frustrating thread to post in, as almost no one on either side listens to the other side - we're all essentially pissing into the wind because neither side listens (truly listens) to the other.

Hey I was just opining on why I think the thread sucks :)
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,043
31,512
Florida
Why would we move him for a second round pick that has maybe a 20% chance of even becoming a bottom 6er, 4 years from now?Like him or hate him, his odds of being an impact or even just NHL quality player is far greater than that if a random 2nd


Petan has double Tanev’s points in like 10 extra games. Literally the only thing Tanev is better at is being fast. Petan is the far superior hockey player.
Oh, and actually playing the role the Jets need him to effectively.

So like 2 things.
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,043
31,512
Florida
If that role is ‘be an awful hockey player’ then yeah, Tanev is great at that role!
This adds a tonne to the discussion and is probably a good reason why there is such divisiveness in this thread.

Yes, it's very hard to argue that Petan is a more skilled hockey player than Tanev.

However, Tanev is a much SMARTER hockey player because he knows what is available for him in the Jets lineup and plays it. A guy who busts his ass like every shift is his last. Forechecks like a demon, pesters the hell out of the opposition defense, block shots with his face.

The Jets don't need some ultra skilled, slow, soft guy in that role who buttonhooks and gets the puck taken from him easier than a newborn with a Dilly Bar.
 

sipowicz

The thrill is gone
Mar 16, 2011
31,340
40,296
Petan is better than both Tanev or Thorburn. This post is the illustration of how Petan was never given a chance. Tanev and Thorburn being in the NHL while Petan languishes in the AHL is a joke.

Petan doesn’t have NHL speed, Tanev does, Petan doesn’t have NHL level compete, Tanev does, Petan can’t PK at the NHL level, Tanev can, Petan has no shot neither does Tanev really...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gotaf7 and FFHockey

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
8,362
5,073
Why would we move him for a second round pick that has maybe a 20% chance of even becoming a bottom 6er, 4 years from now?Like him or hate him, his odds of being an impact or even just NHL quality player is far greater than that if a random 2nd


Petan has double Tanev’s points in like 10 extra games. Literally the only thing Tanev is better at is being fast. Petan is the far superior hockey player.
Seems like petan is living up to that 20% of 2nd rounders that don't make nhl. I would be surprised if we get even a 7th rounder for him now. Undersized 22 year old that is not even close to a point a game player in ahl. Jets would be over the moon if they got a 2nd and would make that move in a second. Even a 5th for him would be found money now. And no he is not better then tanev at nothing hockey related.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
None of this is even being discussed if Petan wasn't rushed into the team and put in a position he had little chance to succeed in. He shouldn't have been up with the team for as long as he was and definitely not in the role he mainly filled.

I think so far Petan is a development plan gone wrong for the Jets, I think he's largely been mishandled. Having said that, he's far from a closed book. He's been set back a bit but I still think he will develop into an NHL player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JetsFan815

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
Seems like petan is living up to that 20% of 2nd rounders that don't make nhl. I would be surprised if we get even a 7th rounder for him now. Undersized 22 year old that is not even close to a point a game player in ahl. Jets would be over the moon if they got a 2nd and would make that move in a second. Even a 5th for him would be found money now. And no he is not better then tanev at nothing hockey related.
Your disdain for Petan is ridiculous. Why do you seem to actively root against a young player who is still a part of the Jets org? Are you just crowing about believing you are right about something, or just trolling people intentionally with grandioise statements?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JetsFan815

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
The disdain People have on here for Taney is shocking. We are pointing out if Petan played with the type of heart Tanev does and worked on his speed and people stopped making excuses for him he would be great.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sipowicz

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
The disdain People have on here for Taney is shocking. We are pointing out if Petan played with the type of heart Tanev does and worked on his speed and people stopped making excuses for him he would be great.
I don't think as many people around have as much disdain for Tanev as you seem to think. A couple certainly do but he's turned a number of people's opinions around here to be fair. I still think he's a 4th line player, that's no slight on him, more a comment on the depth of the team.
 

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
8,362
5,073
Your disdain for Petan is ridiculous. Why do you seem to actively root against a young player who is still a part of the Jets org? Are you just crowing about believing you are right about something, or just trolling people intentionally with grandioise statements?
Not rooting against him. Dont think he will ever be an nhl player though. Tired of always reading how great he is and how he has the numbers to prove it. And how nhl players, Thorburn hendricks tanev for example are beneath him and are solely to blame because he can't show enough to play in this league. Or the coach is holding him back who by the way gave him over 80 games in nhl to prove himself. As soon as you start talking about his flaws and why he isnt in nhl it goes right back to maurice tanev hendricks and thorburn.
 

JetsHomer

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
10,941
3,146
Petan doesn’t have NHL speed, Tanev does, Petan doesn’t have NHL level compete, Tanev does, Petan can’t PK at the NHL level, Tanev can, Petan has no shot neither does Tanev really...
Is NHL level compete or speed really important when you don’t have NHL level talent, skill or ability? Who cares if someone can PK if they’re abysmal offensively? Petan brings more value to the PP than Tanev does on the PK so the special teams argument is pretty ridiculous.
 

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
11,590
1,801
Killarney, MB
Is NHL level compete or speed really important when you don’t have NHL level talent, skill or ability? Who cares if someone can PK if they’re abysmal offensively? Petan brings more value to the PP than Tanev does on the PK so the special teams argument is pretty ridiculous.

you care when your team is logging large volumes of PIMs per game. this season we have been much better but there is still a lot of season to go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->