Niagara Ice Dogs 2018-19 Season Thread

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AttackBeacher

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Feb 1, 2019
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Heres the thing... if this is being blamed on prior management and staff the new management and staff .. and the ownership did nothing to correct the errors

To compound that...

The current GM was the assistant dating back to 2010 and also shares the last name of the ownership group. Its easy to throw those who are no longer there under the bus, but the assistant GM should and would have his hands in every contact/education package, and the ownership sign off on it. If there was money under the table that was being passed out (we have no way of knowing), its highly unlikely the previous manager was taking it out of his salary to do so. Whatever the issues were, there is someone there now who knew what was going on.

You could make the argument that the owners were not micromanaging, but whatever happened, suggesting that it was the act of one person is quite convenient and very questionable.
 

Sam14

Registered User
Mar 28, 2018
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Ice Dog fans:
I am a long time reader (not poster) of the Niagara Ice Dogs fan forum, and I know that your fans have a high moral compass often denouncing other organizations for "cheating", not playing by the rules, draft manipulation, etc...
I'm wondering if those same fans will "own" their own organization's moral indiscretions assuming, of course, that the allegations are true.
To say that "team x" also cheats is NO defense of what the Ice Dogs' organization is guilty of. It makes it nearly impossible now to criticize any other organization for cheating without sounding hypocritical.


A lot of speculation but it is far too early to comment on this. If the rumours are true, cheating and being cheap are two different crimes. Best to wait and see what the violation is and go from there.
 
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icepups

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Jul 11, 2014
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A lot of speculation but it is far too early to comment on this. If the rumours are true, cheating and being cheap are two different crimes. Best to wait and see what the violation is and go from there.

Except that we may never know what the violation was...

I don't believe that the Windsor fans ever got the complete story on the Spits violation of the rules was.

I agree with the poster above that stated that then Assistant GM Joey Burke had to have known that something was Rotten in Niagara and seemingly did nothing make amends for it. As for casting stones, why not. Somebody needs to keep the glass industry in business. :naughty:

I don't believe for a second that Niagara and Windsor are the only teams that have ever committed a recruiting rule violation. They are just the ones that have been punished to date. I truly wish that this had never happened as I hate to see a scorch mark on the league and any team in it.
 

Canadian Game

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Jul 18, 2005
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Most guilty verdicts in life are appealed.
This really doesn't have any relevance because guilty verdicts, which the accused is in fact innocent, are also appealed. Another purpose of an appeal, which is likely the case for Niagara, is to also plead their side of the case further and to try and get the penalty reduced.
 
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BadgerBruce

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Aug 8, 2013
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Except that we may never know what the violation was...

I don't believe that the Windsor fans ever got the complete story on the Spits violation of the rules was.

I agree with the poster above that stated that then Assistant GM Joey Burke had to have known that something was Rotten in Niagara and seemingly did nothing make amends for it. As for casting stones, why not. Somebody needs to keep the glass industry in business. :naughty:

I don't believe for a second that Niagara and Windsor are the only teams that have ever committed a recruiting rule violation. They are just the ones that have been punished to date. I truly wish that this had never happened as I hate to see a scorch mark on the league and any team in it.

Well, we DO know what the WHL’s 2012 investigation into the Portland Winterhawks found. Not because the league or its legal team/ investigators told us, but because the Winterhawks wanted everyone to know EXACTLY what horrible crimes they had committed.

Sunlight, after all, is always the best disinfectant.

Here are the 2012 Portland Winterhawks sins:

— A player contract signed in 2009, involving flights for the player’s family and a summer training program.

— Seven families were provided flights two-four times per season based on financial need and their distance from Portland.

— The team paid for two players to each have a one-week summer training regimen.

— The Winterhawks provided a cellphone for their team captain for a period of three seasons.

And for these acts of decency to players (sorry — meant “student athletes”) and their families, the Head Coach/GM was suspended, the team fined $200K, and a pile of draft picks were taken away.

Winterhawks punished for WHL violations - Sportsnet.ca

In my view, the leagues do not want the public to know the precise nature of team “policy violations” because most members of the public would be appalled to learn that commercial entities can actually be punished for treating teenagers and their families very well. Seldom do we hear about CHL teams that fail to meet so-called “minimum standards” and are subsequently sanctioned. No, teams are punished simply for being better employers than other teams.

It’s a bizarre world where being a good employer violates policy.
 

icepups

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
295
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Well, we DO know what the WHL’s 2012 investigation into the Portland Winterhawks found. Not because the league or its legal team/ investigators told us, but because the Winterhawks wanted everyone to know EXACTLY what horrible crimes they had committed.

Sunlight, after all, is always the best disinfectant.

Here are the 2012 Portland Winterhawks sins:

— A player contract signed in 2009, involving flights for the player’s family and a summer training program.

— Seven families were provided flights two-four times per season based on financial need and their distance from Portland.

— The team paid for two players to each have a one-week summer training regimen.

— The Winterhawks provided a cellphone for their team captain for a period of three seasons.

And for these acts of decency to players (sorry — meant “student athletes”) and their families, the Head Coach/GM was suspended, the team fined $200K, and a pile of draft picks were taken away.

Winterhawks punished for WHL violations - Sportsnet.ca

In my view, the leagues do not want the public to know the precise nature of team “policy violations” because most members of the public would be appalled to learn that commercial entities can actually be punished for treating teenagers and their families very well. Seldom do we hear about CHL teams that fail to meet so-called “minimum standards” and are subsequently sanctioned. No, teams are punished simply for being better employers than other teams.

It’s a bizarre world where being a good employer violates policy.

Unfortunately, not all teams have the financial fortitude to provide these perks to their players / employees. As such, the league must implement and enforce rules banning these acts of decency to ensure a level and competitive playing field.
 

Fischhaber

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Sep 3, 2014
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Unfortunately, not all teams have the financial fortitude to provide these perks to their players / employees. As such, the league must implement and enforce rules banning these acts of decency to ensure a level and competitive playing field.

That's absolutely right. If teams can freely use their financial might to recruit players then the whole league goes to hell. We've already got that problem right now.

I happen to know that some OHL teams provide perks in the 5 figure range even today, especially to American players, but the league is yet to enforce the rules appropriately or consistently.
 

Fischhaber

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Sep 3, 2014
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Hey Three Dog on the Ice Dogs Fan Forum you asked "How does London get away with it"?

There you have it London must pay up whether the player turns out or not? :laugh::laugh:

London compensates their recruits openly and the league does nothing. Obviously there are some loopholes in the rules that are exploited or the league just doesn't care. No other team is so blatant.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
That's absolutely right. If teams can freely use their financial might to recruit players then the whole league goes to hell. We've already got that problem right now.

I happen to know that some OHL teams provide perks in the 5 figure range even today, especially to American players, but the league is yet to enforce the rules appropriately or consistently.
You happen to know this do you? Let's go... name names.. if its happening as you say blow it up wide open
 

BadgerBruce

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Aug 8, 2013
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That's absolutely right. If teams can freely use their financial might to recruit players then the whole league goes to hell. We've already got that problem right now.

Sometimes, teams use their “financial might,” as you call it, to level the playing field.

For instance, if you look more deeply into the Portland Winterhawks situation in 2012, here is what you will discover:

1) The parents of a European player were flown to Portland multiple times to see their son because they were not wealthy people with the means to afford trans-Atlantic air travel. Financially asssisting players and their families so they can actually see each other face-to-face does not strike me as an action likely to send the league to Hell. Heaven? Yes.

2) 7 players over a five year period, all of whom hailed from remote parts of Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan and several other regions of North America thousands of kilometres from Oregon, were flown to Portland to see their children. If that’s a viewed as a league-destroying perk instead of an act of decency to financially needy families who miss their kids, junior hockey has lost its way.

3). Two players had 1-week summer training programs paid for by the club. Frankly, I’m nearly speechless. A team pays for one week of power skating in July for 2 players and THIS is an example of “financial might” at work?

4) The team captain is given a cell phone by the team and told to be a leader and keep in touch with the boys. This doesn’t even warrant a comment.

Now please read over that list of “policy” infractions. $200K in fines. GM/Coach suspended. Draft pick punishment much harsher than the Ice Dogs are facing. Does anyone really think that what Portland did is bad? I think everything they did is GOOD for the players and their families/parents. A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone. Any league with the players well-being at heart would do everything possible to help these guys see their moms and dads. In the CHL, it’s a policy violation.

Shaking my head .....
 

foghorn

Registered User
Nov 4, 2017
546
266
Sometimes, teams use their “financial might,” as you call it, to level the playing field.

For instance, if you look more deeply into the Portland Winterhawks situation in 2012, here is what you will discover:

1) The parents of a European player were flown to Portland multiple times to see their son because they were not wealthy people with the means to afford trans-Atlantic air travel. Financially asssisting players and their families so they can actually see each other face-to-face does not strike me as an action likely to send the league to Hell. Heaven? Yes.

2) 7 players over a five year period, all of whom hailed from remote parts of Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan and several other regions of North America thousands of kilometres from Oregon, were flown to Portland to see their children. If that’s a viewed as a league-destroying perk instead of an act of decency to financially needy families who miss their kids, junior hockey has lost its way.

3). Two players had 1-week summer training programs paid for by the club. Frankly, I’m nearly speechless. A team pays for one week of power skating in July for 2 players and THIS is an example of “financial might” at work?

4) The team captain is given a cell phone by the team and told to be a leader and keep in touch with the boys. This doesn’t even warrant a comment.

Now please read over that list of “policy” infractions. $200K in fines. GM/Coach suspended. Draft pick punishment much harsher than the Ice Dogs are facing. Does anyone really think that what Portland did is bad? I think everything they did is GOOD for the players and their families/parents. A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone. Any league with the players well-being at heart would do everything possible to help these guys see their moms and dads. In the CHL, it’s a policy violation.

Shaking my head .....
i get what youre saying but dont you have to apply the rules? So team B tells their European family that doesnt have money to travel to see their son, sorry our rules say we cannot pay for that flight. Which team are you recommending your friends kid to play for?? this is what is happening currently on certain teams some are playiing by the rules and some are not which creates situations that are more appealing towards certain teams and not others, is that fair? Those that play in bigger citys make much more gate money than small market teams who just dont have the money to pay for perks....are we headed to revenue sharing?
 

dirty12

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
8,964
3,636
Sometimes, teams use their “financial might,” as you call it, to level the playing field.

For instance, if you look more deeply into the Portland Winterhawks situation in 2012, here is what you will discover:

1) The parents of a European player were flown to Portland multiple times to see their son because they were not wealthy people with the means to afford trans-Atlantic air travel. Financially asssisting players and their families so they can actually see each other face-to-face does not strike me as an action likely to send the league to Hell. Heaven? Yes.

2) 7 players over a five year period, all of whom hailed from remote parts of Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan and several other regions of North America thousands of kilometres from Oregon, were flown to Portland to see their children. If that’s a viewed as a league-destroying perk instead of an act of decency to financially needy families who miss their kids, junior hockey has lost its way.

3). Two players had 1-week summer training programs paid for by the club. Frankly, I’m nearly speechless. A team pays for one week of power skating in July for 2 players and THIS is an example of “financial might” at work?

4) The team captain is given a cell phone by the team and told to be a leader and keep in touch with the boys. This doesn’t even warrant a comment.

Now please read over that list of “policy” infractions. $200K in fines. GM/Coach suspended. Draft pick punishment much harsher than the Ice Dogs are facing. Does anyone really think that what Portland did is bad? I think everything they did is GOOD for the players and their families/parents. A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone. Any league with the players well-being at heart would do everything possible to help these guys see their moms and dads. In the CHL, it’s a policy violation.

Shaking my head .....


Portland was indeed sweet to use their financial advantages to offer incentives that some clubs were not capable of. In this way, Portland broke rules in place that were intended to keep a competitive balance.
If this happened in the NCAA, the program may have been suspended.
 

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
3,031
1,622
Sometimes, teams use their “financial might,” as you call it, to level the playing field.

For instance, if you look more deeply into the Portland Winterhawks situation in 2012, here is what you will discover:

1) The parents of a European player were flown to Portland multiple times to see their son because they were not wealthy people with the means to afford trans-Atlantic air travel. Financially asssisting players and their families so they can actually see each other face-to-face does not strike me as an action likely to send the league to Hell. Heaven? Yes.

2) 7 players over a five year period, all of whom hailed from remote parts of Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan and several other regions of North America thousands of kilometres from Oregon, were flown to Portland to see their children. If that’s a viewed as a league-destroying perk instead of an act of decency to financially needy families who miss their kids, junior hockey has lost its way.

3). Two players had 1-week summer training programs paid for by the club. Frankly, I’m nearly speechless. A team pays for one week of power skating in July for 2 players and THIS is an example of “financial might” at work?

4) The team captain is given a cell phone by the team and told to be a leader and keep in touch with the boys. This doesn’t even warrant a comment.

Now please read over that list of “policy” infractions. $200K in fines. GM/Coach suspended. Draft pick punishment much harsher than the Ice Dogs are facing. Does anyone really think that what Portland did is bad? I think everything they did is GOOD for the players and their families/parents. A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone. Any league with the players well-being at heart would do everything possible to help these guys see their moms and dads. In the CHL, it’s a policy violation.

Shaking my head .....

I understand that it is a nice thing to let parents see their son play. If there were a league funded policy to fly in these kind of people then I would fully support it.

However, imagine a small market team like Swift Current or Prince Albert that can't afford to spend that kind of money. They have to pass over the best player in the draft. It's just not right and it will hurt those teams.

It happens in the OHL as well. Teams are basically told to pony up or to not draft a player. That often explains why a high profile player will drop.
 

StormWatcher

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
1,628
961
Sometimes, teams use their “financial might,” as you call it, to level the playing field.

For instance, if you look more deeply into the Portland Winterhawks situation in 2012, here is what you will discover:

1) The parents of a European player were flown to Portland multiple times to see their son because they were not wealthy people with the means to afford trans-Atlantic air travel. Financially asssisting players and their families so they can actually see each other face-to-face does not strike me as an action likely to send the league to Hell. Heaven? Yes.

2) 7 players over a five year period, all of whom hailed from remote parts of Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan and several other regions of North America thousands of kilometres from Oregon, were flown to Portland to see their children. If that’s a viewed as a league-destroying perk instead of an act of decency to financially needy families who miss their kids, junior hockey has lost its way.

3). Two players had 1-week summer training programs paid for by the club. Frankly, I’m nearly speechless. A team pays for one week of power skating in July for 2 players and THIS is an example of “financial might” at work?

4) The team captain is given a cell phone by the team and told to be a leader and keep in touch with the boys. This doesn’t even warrant a comment.

Now please read over that list of “policy” infractions. $200K in fines. GM/Coach suspended. Draft pick punishment much harsher than the Ice Dogs are facing. Does anyone really think that what Portland did is bad? I think everything they did is GOOD for the players and their families/parents. A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone. Any league with the players well-being at heart would do everything possible to help these guys see their moms and dads. In the CHL, it’s a policy violation.

Shaking my head .....

Right, I'm sure the cell was just for business purposes and was not at all used for Snapchat and candy crush.
 

Samee987

Registered User
Oct 26, 2014
968
610
A 16 year old kid born and raised in Whitby, Ontario can easily see his parents if he is drafted by Oshawa. If he’s drafted by North Bay, he could go months all alone.

Shaking my head .....

It's a 3 hour sunday drive to North Bay from Whitby. Months all alone, good grief!!

SHAKING MY HEAD!!
 
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