NHL's cloud to follow NBA?

[Hasbro]

For what it's worth, I've always got the impression David Stern wants Gary Bettman to do well.

One thing even the possiblity of an NBA lockout helps with is, it makes networks reluctant to cancel hockey (hello ESPN)

 

[kdb209]

Originally Posted by kdb209
Taking away what's left of Baseball's Anti Trust Exemption (all the labor issues were gutted with the Curt Flood Act in '98) would do absolutely nothing towards adding more teams (in NY, NJ, or Boston). Baseballs ability to limit the number and location of franchises has absolutely nothing to do with anti-trust protections.

Are you sure about that? I am not an anti-trust attorney, and admit as much, but I think that I read somewhere that removing the protection would in effect allow competition in closed markets that could easily support more franchises, like NY.

Yes, I'm sure about that.

I'm not an anti-trust (or labor law) attorney - I just play one on these boards. But I consider myself pretty knowledgable on the subject.

The antitrust exemption has no effect on the number or location of MLB franchises - that's the key word franchises. They are granted by an business entity which has all the rights to control how, when, and where they are granted. Just as congress or the courts can't tell McDonalds how many franchises to open or where, the same holds true for sports franchises.

What the MLB pseudo-anti-trust exemption does do, though, is give it more powers to act against a new competing league should one try to startup. MLB could get away with doing more things against a new Federal League, for example, than the NFL could against the USFL. But, I really don't see this as a big issue - do you really see anyone insane enough to try to start a competeing league to MLB, and more ludicrous, try to compete with the Yankees in New York.

If the anti-trust exemption were the only bar to more franchises in MLB, what about all the other sports which do not have that exemption. You would think you would see more NBA franchises in NY, LA, Chicago, etc, and at least one NFL team in LA, but you don't, do you.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Here's what happened, according to several agents who were in the room: After Hunter laid out the proposal, the rhetoric from the agents started getting tough. At one point, shouting and obscenities filled the room. Before the end of the meeting, Hunter had each agent stand, say his name and pledge that they'd urge their clients to support the players association if the league didn't soften its stance on several key bargaining issues and forces a lockout.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2062066


ESPN.com's take on the mess that will follow...

 

[futurcorerock]

ESPN broke on Sportscenter as "breaking news" that the talks broke down

I for one am excited now that the 'other' sports journalists who were making jokes about the NHL's labor woes will potentially have two lockouts to write about by the time 2007 rolls around, while us as fans will have guys like Nash, Iginla, and Kovalchuk to speak on.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

all the more reason for the NHL to get a deal done NOW...

so that their sport is in full swing when the NBA starts getting dirty... and when MLB is getting its 10 year lockout ready....


Goodenow's preface that the PA will be getting a swing of the "power" in teh spring/summer....might be right(the reasons were wrong, but anyways)...

not that he gets power...just that the league might/should give a bit more to get a deal done as not to risk a 2 union war..

 

[BigE]

ESPN broke on Sportscenter as "breaking news" that the talks broke down

I for one am excited now that the 'other' sports journalists who were making jokes about the NHL's labor woes will potentially have two lockouts to write about by the time 2007 rolls around, while us as fans will have guys like Nash, Iginla, and Kovalchuk to speak on.

Yeah man!

 

[xander]

Am I the only person on these boards that is both a hockey and a basketball fan? Is they're somthing about hockey that prevents most of it's fans from enjoying the beautiful game of basketball?

 

[Cawz]

Am I the only person on these boards that is both a hockey and a basketball fan? Is they're somthing about hockey that prevents most of it's fans from enjoying the beautiful game of basketball?

I hear you man.

I think a lot of the people who dont like basketball dont play it, and so dont understand it. Kind of the same reason hockey isnt that popular. If you dont play it and you werent raised with it, you wont understand the finer points.

Everyone loves goals and body checks, slam dunks and blocks, but you have to be a real fan to understand cycling and pinching in from the point, pick n rolls and the timing of alley-oops.

If any real sports fan is tuning out the NBA playoffs right now due to their bias against bball, youre missing out on some great matchups.

 

[Hockeyfan02]

I'm not a big fan of the NBA, but I don't want their fans who care as passionately about the game to go through the same crap we went through in the last year. I don't get the big vendetta against the other sports other people have on this board. Hey it'd be great for the NHL if they came back and the NBA wasn't around so they could be promoted more, but I wouldn't be happy about another sport's fans missing their favorite sport. And I doubt you see this one cancel a season. Sounds like from the ESPN experts that everyone in the NBA is following this situation and doesn't want to go down the road the NHL went down.

 

[mr gib]

i'm a huge b ball fan - this double lock out thing should be interesting

 

[futurcorerock]

I hear you man.

I think a lot of the people who dont like basketball dont play it, and so dont understand it. Kind of the same reason hockey isnt that popular. If you dont play it and you werent raised with it, you wont understand the finer points.

Everyone loves goals and body checks, slam dunks and blocks, but you have to be a real fan to understand cycling and pinching in from the point, pick n rolls and the timing of alley-oops.

If any real sports fan is tuning out the NBA playoffs right now due to their bias against bball, youre missing out on some great matchups.

i can see your argument if you said it about hockey... those who have never played it and don't play it don't understand it therefore don't like it.

However... it's pretty easy to play Basketball, whereas Hockey is more of a financial commitment and takes a lot of initial skill (ice skating, puck handling) as compared to Basketball which could be played in a myriad of lower levels.

I'm tuned into the playoffs, but much of this agnst and "take that NBA" is more directed at those sports writers and fans who were ignorant enough to scoff at the NHL's labor woes and then pretend like there was a silver lining in the future for them. Same goes for Major League Baseball writers/fans who've mocked the NHL.

Simply put, the NHL's woes are a open window and a microcosm of what could be for the NBA and MLB if they don't take the differences seriously and get to the tables. As well, it's a definitive testament to what Owners are willing to go through to make the playing field level. It reflects the type of sports environment we see ourselves in with small markets and big markets having so much apart from one another.

If you asked me which league was the biggest joke league out there, i'd answer Major League Baseball hands-down. Even if the NHL were locked out for two years, MLB would still be a joke. I've wiped my butt with finer print than what their CBA is comprised of, and there's a huge chance that either the NBA and MLB might mirror what the NHL has gone through with their labor woes.

 

[Hasbro]

What?

You mean comments like "We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money too..." didn't help Joe Fan feel that union love?

And away we go

"NBA union chief Billy Hunter questioned the league's tactics, calling the approach "repugnant and offensive."

"This was the same approach used by the league seven years ago," Hunter told ESPN. "At that time, the word was that [agents] David Falk and Arn Tellum and others were actually orchestrating and managing the negotiations. I thought it was repugnant and offensive at that time, and I think it's even more so now -- the fact the inference is that me, as a black man, cannot operate an institution such as the union without having some white man oversee and legitimate whatever it is I'msupposed to be doing.""

 

[mr gib]

And away we go

yikes

 

[Youreallygotme]

It could be the beginning end of all major professional sports if they lock all 3 of them out, and the fans find better uses for the money they had been spending on over-priced tickets.

Or finally the beginning of a golden age for sports once they get past the lockouts and get working systems(IE. NFL!!!!!!!!) Maybe everybody could afford to go to games every once in a while. But we have to get past this painful stage first(I dont know if painful sums it up well enough)

 

[futurcorerock]

C'mon... it's hard to argue that fans will be pushed so far away from sports that they will use their money on say... gardening.

it's too far fetched to think that there is so much money tied up in one sport for a fan not to buy in. Isn't the purpose of these caps to drop ticket prices and encourage fans to come back?

 

[danaluvsthekings]

and NHL owners.... (the 15 who own NHL and NBA teams)... are you ready to fight a 2 front war?

Do you have a list of the owners that own both NBA and NHL teams? Thanks.

 

[Hasbro]

Do you have a list of the owners that own both NBA and NHL teams? Thanks.

finnigan listed them on an old thread.

Actually only 8 owners on teams in both leagues.
Rangers/Knicks- Cabelvision
Maple Leafs/Raptos – MLSE
Flyers/76ers - Comcast-Spectacor
Devils/Nets – Chambers/Katz
Avalanche/Nuggets – Kroenke
Thrashers/Hawks – New Owner (Formely Time Warner)
Ligthning/Pistons - Davison
Capitals/Wizards - Leonsis/MCI

There are more teams that share the building but when the Mavs play that doesn't effect Hicks' bottomline and vis-a-versa. Most of these owners are billionaires who have other business interests, so I'm expecting that they will be able to hold out longer then ahtletes with a finite career.

NHL Owners: http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1208/094tab.html
NBA Owners: http://www.forbes.com/home/forbes/2004/0216/064tab.html

 

[BlueShirt]

The Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers are still able to buy their teams while other teams remain their AAA teams.

The Dodgers?? You can remove them from that list. When have they gone out and bought a team in recent years? Thanks to their new inept ownership they are broker than ever. They couldn't even resign their best player (Beltre) in the offseason. They also traded some of their best players away last season due to payroll WHILE they were leading their division. I think McCourt spent his last penny on buying the team and now has no money to run them. Go figure, considering they are in the 2nd largest market and lead the MLB in ticket sales. Yes, I am a disgruntled Dodger fan, however baseball pretty much sux now days anyway.

I do however agree with your overall comment. I have pretty much stopped watching baseball because of the poor teams being nothing than farm clubs for the rich ones.

I hope both the NBA and MLB lockout. In a perfect world, I would have the NHL in the summer and the NFL in the winter for great sports year round.

 

[danaluvsthekings]

finnigan listed them on an old thread.

Thanks. Anschutz owns 25% of the Lakers so I'd add him to the list of people fighting a two front war.

 

[McDonald19]

I hear you man.

I think a lot of the people who dont like basketball dont play it, and so dont understand it. Kind of the same reason hockey isnt that popular. If you dont play it and you werent raised with it, you wont understand the finer points.

I've been watching the NBA playoffs because I'm so desperate for a sports fix but I just don't find it that exciting.

The NCAA Basketball tournament is a lot better. Better style of basketball in my opinion.

I don't know maybe I relate better to hockey and NCAA basketball because I'm average height and weight. If I were 6'10 I'd probably be like yeah It's fun to run around and dunk, but im 5'11. Same thing with football when I suddenly become 6'5 250 I'll get into it.

 

[McDonald19]

The Dodgers?? You can remove them from that list. When have they gone out and bought a team in recent years? Thanks to their new inept ownership they are broker than ever. They couldn't even resign their best player (Beltre) in the offseason. They also traded some of their best players away last season due to payroll WHILE they were leading their division. I think McCourt spent his last penny on buying the team and now has no money to run them. Go figure, considering they are in the 2nd largest market and lead the MLB in ticket sales. Yes, I am a disgruntled Dodger fan, however baseball pretty much sux now days anyway.

They did throw 11 million a year at J.D. Drew. Also signed Jeff Kent.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Don't forget Lowe...


But they also let alot of money walk away too...

Thats beside the point though..

 

[Hasbro]

Buccigross on a potential NBA lockout

I am praying, praying, praying, praying, praying, and praying for an NBA work stoppage. I long for the polls saying nobody cares about the work stoppage, that the fans are apathetic and think the owners are greedy and the players are selfish. Of course they will leave out the declining NBA ratings, and the fact there is a scoring problem in the NBA, and they will never say the NBA overexpanded, or that there are too many foreigners with names people can't pronounce. Let's see if they bash the NBA like they are bashing the NHL.

Say what you will about Buccigross, he loves hockey and isn't just serving time working his way up to a "better" sport at ESPN.

 

[eSabre]

Buccigross on a potential NBA lockoutSay what you will about Buccigross, he loves hockey and isn't just serving time working his way up to a "better" sport at ESPN.

A wonderful article.

If Gary and Bob can get a deal done soon, the NHL should be in a very favorable position for the future.

 

[Hasbro]

things aren't improving for the NBA

The union will hold its annual meeting in Las Vegas on June 27, and it seems unlikely that the sides will hold any substantive discussions before then. The current agreement expires June 30, and both sides have predicted that if there is a lockout, it'll be a long one.

"It would be a death knell for the NBA," Hunter said.

Uh Billy the NBA makes money. If the NHL can survive so can you.