NHLPA Victory?

[HockeyCritter]

I just hope by the 2010 Olympics one of the "big six" is forced to play the earlier rounds . . . . . I want to see how the NHL will handle that.

 

[Hasbro]

In this instance I can see how the league has trouble with the Olympics. They have to close up shop, change schedules and have players put in harm's way and get more worn out. Since the benifits are of the off book variety the usefulness of the Olympics doesn't click.

 

[dolfanar]

I just hope by the 2010 Olympics one of the "big six" is forced to play the earlier rounds . . . . . I want to see how the NHL will handle that.

Was it Slovakia who was in that spot last time? Anyway, unless it's Canada or the US I doubt it would phase the NHL very much.

 

[Hunter74]

Simply the NHL trying to make it look better for the players.

In reality, it helps both.

Could be some in the media who are throwing the PA a bone. They have been hammering the PA about how they have been totally destroyed in these negotiations. They might be feeling that there constant referrals to the PA losing is possibly hurting the process so they are throwing them a bone so the players can cling to whatever pride they have left until the deal is done.

Then the media comes out and says how stupid teh PA was and how they threw 1billion in salary away just b/c they did'nt trust the owners numbers. Even though they accepted the owners numbers in the end.

 

[Kritter471]

Even though they accepted the owners numbers in the end.

We have no idea if the players accepted the owner's numbers or if they reached some sory of middle ground over their two or so weeks on financial issues.

 

[DW3]

The NHL would be absolutely STUPID to pass up the Olympics.

It's just what the league needs to get everyone's attention back on the sport.

Let's face it. Starting while the NFL and their legions of fantasy football players are in full swing makes it tough to get any attention south of the border.

So no one is really going to care about the NHL (except the hardcore fans) until after the superbowl anyway.
The Olympics will be a great launching pad into the stretch drive .

Especially since NBC has both the Olympics and the last half of the NHL, which gives them an added promotional boost. It's easier to plug the NHL games if the people can see the product, something like "Tune in next week to see these same guys playing again" or such.

 

[NJD Jester]

The biggest bump in US interest in hockey after the Olympic games happened in 1980.

And what, exactly, did the NHL have to do with it? You just proved my point.

 

[katodelder]

I just hope by the 2010 Olympics one of the "big six" is forced to play the earlier rounds . . . . . I want to see how the NHL will handle that.

I believe the Olympic braintrust decided to do away with the qualification round after what Slovakia had to go through at Salt Lake.

The number of countries were reduced from 16 to 12 and all 12 will commence play at the same time now. The top eight IIHF-ranked countries in the world automatically qualified (CAN, CZE, SWE, RUS, USA, FIN, SVK, GER). Italy got in as hosts and three seperate mini-tournaments were held this year to determine the last 3 spots (I believe the Swiss, Norway, and Latvia won but I could be wrong.)

So as long as "the big six" remain in the top 8 of the IIHF's rankings, then I don't think they'll have to worry about qualifying anytime soon.

 

[katodelder]

Toward Torino

gentlemen, start your engines!

Heatley-Sakic-Iginla
Nash-Thornton-St.Louis
Richards-Lecavalier-Lemieux
Gagne-Peca-Doan
Smyth, Yzerman

? Bertuzzi
? Kariya
? Crosby

Pronger-Blake
Niedermayer-Foote
Regehr-Jovanovski
Brewer

? Redden
? Hannan

Brodeur
Luongo
Turco

?Theodore
​

 

[Hasbro]

And what, exactly, did the NHL have to do with it? You just proved my point.

Most of the MIrcles went on to NHL careers. Jim Craig was a huge draw in his short career.

 

[R0CKET]

Cool!

Losing 1.5 Billoins to be able to go to the Olympics...sounds like its a great deal to me for the PA

 

[kdb209]

Originally Posted by NJD Jester
And what, exactly, did the NHL have to do with it? You just proved my point.

Most of the MIrcles went on to NHL careers. Jim Craig was a huge draw in his short career.

Most? NHL Careers? Hardly. Jim Craig's career was a whole 30 games over 3 yrs.

Only 13 played in the NHL (7 did not) and of those, only one (Broten) could maybe be considered a star, and maybe 5 more decent NHL players (Christian, Johnson, Ramsey, Pavelich, and Morrow).

Name - Seasons GP G A Pts
-Neal Broten - 17 1099 289 634 923
-Dave Christian - 15 1009 340 433 773
-Mark Johnson - 11 669 203 305 508
-Mike Ramsey - 18 1070 79 266 345
-Mark Pavelich - 7 355 137 192 329
-Steve Christoff - 5 248 77 64 141
-Jack O'Callahan - 7 389 27 104 131
-Dave Silk - 7 249 54 59 113
-Rob McClanahan - 5 224 38 63 101
-Ken Morrow - 10 550 17 88 105
-Bill Baker - 3 143 7 25 32

-Jim Craig (G) - 3 yrs - 30 games
-Steve Janaszak (G) - 2 yrs - 3 games

Did not play in NHL:

-Mike Eruzione
-Phil Verchota
-William "Buzz" Schneider
-Eric Strobel
-John Harrington
-Bob Suter
-Mark Wells

And NJD Jester's point, which you completely missed was that the Miracle team were not NHL players at the time - and that's why they are legends today.

 

[London Knights]

The NHL needs the Olympics more now, but disruptions in the middle of a season screw up logistics for any sports league and that is why the NHL wouldn't like the Olympics. It is right in the middle of the season. You get stuck with two weeks of the league being out of the media spotlight altogether.

This move benefits the league far more than it would without a lockout, but I would agree that it is more of a player benefit of being able to represent your country than a league advantage. Not enough to call it a "victory" by the PA though. A victory would be a compromise on the cap, luxury tax, arbitration, UFA age, bonuses excluded from the cap (or at least a separate cap on bonuses), revenue sharing (with stipulations forcing the shared money to be invested into the team and not the owners pockets), etc. Getting to play in the Olympics is more of a perk.

 

[Larionov]

I realize I am likely in the minority on this one, but I think I liked Olympic hockey better when the NHL guys weren't there. There was something pure and refreshing about amateurs playing for the gold rather than a bunch of mercenaries whom you knew were heading back to their million dollar plus jobs 24 hours later. I know the NHL players didn't get a dime to be there, but you just couldn't escape the feeling that they were all-star teams thrown together at the last minute. (Err, that's because they were.) When the true amateurs played, you knew that the team had been together all year, and had sacrificed a big chunk of their lives for this dream. This is what made watching the women win Gold almost more meaningful to me last time than seeing the Canadian NHLers do it.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Who cares. It's a victory for the fans.

Great post.

 

[Jazz]

Can anyone enlighten why the olympic participation issue is considered a PA victory?

"On the Olympic issue, the union appears to have scored a victory, with the league leaning towards participation in the Turin Games next February."

It seems like something the NHL would want (more exposure) and the PA would be against (makes for a more condensed schedule, disrupts the season...)

Because the idiots (like Wirtz) that rule the NHL are absolutely against Olympic participation, as short-sighted as that is. The Players love taking part, and Bettman himself thinks it's a good idea (remember, it was him to got them in the first place).

This time around, the NHL needs the Olympics more than the other way around - It will help get all those fans who have been pissed off in the past few months back (nothing like nationalistic passions). This time around, any new fans will be a welcome bonus.

Alot of it has to do with the location. However I heard the head of the IIHF was going to block NHLer in 2010 if they didn't participate in Turin. And as usual Bettman is a lousy custodian of the game.

This was never and issue, IIHF prez has said on more than one occasion that they will treat the '06 games and the '10 games separately ie. they will not use Vancouver as a bargaining chip to get the NHL into Turin.

How so since the NHL only releases some players for certain countries? Either they all get to go or no one gets to go.

This is not an issue any longer as there will be no qualifying round in the Oympics. All teams start at the same time. However, in order to accomodate NHL teams and the travel, the Olympic tournament is really really compressed. Check out the sked here:
http://www.internationalhockeygang.org/forum/showpost.php?p=7684&postcount=3

What has NHL participation in the Olympics done in the past to increase interest in the league in the United States? There hasn't been a bump in gate or TV ratings after the Olympics; what would be different this time?

To me, the NHL would be better off keeping its players out of The Games and allowing new stars to be born on the international stage.

Simple reason here - there has been NO cross-promotion in the '98 and the '02 games. This fact severly hampered attempts by the NHL to capitalize on the games. In '98 the OG were on CBS, and the NHL was on FOX, and a CBS official asked "Why should we promote FOX's property?" In '02, the OG were on NBC, and the NHL was on ABC - same situation.

Now, both the NHL and the OG are going to be on the same network, NBC - you watch the cross-promotion now.

Especially since NBC has both the Olympics and the last half of the NHL, which gives them an added promotional boost. It's easier to plug the NHL games if the people can see the product, something like "Tune in next week to see these same guys playing again" or such.

Finally, a post in this thread worth reading!!

I believe the Olympic braintrust decided to do away with the qualification round after what Slovakia had to go through at Salt Lake.

The number of countries were reduced from 16 to 12 and all 12 will commence play at the same time now. The top eight IIHF-ranked countries in the world automatically qualified (CAN, CZE, SWE, RUS, USA, FIN, SVK, GER). Italy got in as hosts and three seperate mini-tournaments were held this year to determine the last 3 spots (I believe the Swiss, Norway, and Latvia won but I could be wrong.)

So as long as "the big six" remain in the top 8 of the IIHF's rankings, then I don't think they'll have to worry about qualifying anytime soon.

This is all correct, except that Norway didn't get in and Kazakhstan upset Austria in their Qualification group.

 

[Hasbro]

Most? NHL Careers? Hardly.

Last I checked "most" means more than the other, i.e. 13 out of 20

Jim Craig's career was a whole 30 games over 3 yrs.

And I called it short

Only 13 played in the NHL (7 did not) and of those, only one (Broten) could maybe be considered a star, and maybe 5 more decent NHL players (Christian, Johnson, Ramsey, Pavelich, and Morrow).

Name - Seasons GP G A Pts
-Neal Broten - 17 1099 289 634 923
-Dave Christian - 15 1009 340 433 773
-Mark Johnson - 11 669 203 305 508
-Mike Ramsey - 18 1070 79 266 345
-Mark Pavelich - 7 355 137 192 329
-Steve Christoff - 5 248 77 64 141
-Jack O'Callahan - 7 389 27 104 131
-Dave Silk - 7 249 54 59 113
-Rob McClanahan - 5 224 38 63 101
-Ken Morrow - 10 550 17 88 105
-Bill Baker - 3 143 7 25 32

-Jim Craig (G) - 3 yrs - 30 games
-Steve Janaszak (G) - 2 yrs - 3 games

Did not play in NHL:

-Mike Eruzione
-Phil Verchota
-William "Buzz" Schneider
-Eric Strobel
-John Harrington
-Bob Suter
-Mark Wells

And NJD Jester's point, which you completely missed was that the Miracle team were not NHL players at the time - and that's why they are legends today.

I fully understood his point. Sure these weren't NHL players YET but the NHL drew a great benefit from 1980.

 

[Pepper]

Over here being able to present their country in Olympics is quite important for players and I assume that's the same in Sweden & Canada as well, there are some countries (USA, Russia etc) where national team has never been that important.

 

[Hasbro]

Over here being able to present their country in Olympics is quite important for players and I assume that's the same in Sweden & Canada as well, there are some countries (USA, Russia etc) where national team has never been that important.

I can think of a couple of times they were.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is news.There is another thread on the NHLPA wanting to participate in the Torino Olympics from about one month ago

The NHL shutting down the league in order to have NHL players participate in the 2006 Olympics is a disaster but if it means getting a CBA done.Then chaio baby

 

[CGG]

I think the reason this is considered a "win" for the players is that they were the first to propose it. Way back when in December, they made Olympic participation in 2006 and 2010 part of their proposal. I don't think the league ever specifically mentioned it in their proposals. So it's a "win" for the players, just like the 24% rollback is a "win" for the players.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Especially since NBC has both the Olympics and the last half of the NHL, which gives them an added promotional boost. It's easier to plug the NHL games if the people can see the product, something like "Tune in next week to see these same guys playing again" or such.

Except that NHL hockey isn’t Olympic hockey . . . . .

 

[HockeyCritter]

And what, exactly, did the NHL have to do with it? You just proved my point.

I know - - that's why I mentioned it . . . . . .

 

[HockeyCritter]

<<<snipped>>>

And NJD Jester's point, which you completely missed was that the Miracle team were not NHL players at the time - and that's why they are legends today.

Don’t forget the ripple effect . . . . Watching that 1980 team encouraged others to pursue their hockey dream . . . Pat LaFontaine and Mike Modano are two names that jump out as having stated that watching that 1980 made them believe it was possible for them to have NHL careers (I am sure there are much more than that).

 

[kdb209]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
Most? NHL Careers? Hardly.

Last I checked "most" means more than the other, i.e. 13 out of 20

Quote:
Jim Craig's career was a whole 30 games over 3 yrs.

And I called it short

Quote:
Only 13 played in the NHL (7 did not) and of those, only one (Broten) could maybe be considered a star, and maybe 5 more decent NHL players (Christian, Johnson, Ramsey, Pavelich, and Morrow).

Name - Seasons GP G A Pts
-Neal Broten - 17 1099 289 634 923
-Dave Christian - 15 1009 340 433 773
-Mark Johnson - 11 669 203 305 508
-Mike Ramsey - 18 1070 79 266 345
-Mark Pavelich - 7 355 137 192 329
-Steve Christoff - 5 248 77 64 141
-Jack O'Callahan - 7 389 27 104 131
-Dave Silk - 7 249 54 59 113
-Rob McClanahan - 5 224 38 63 101
-Ken Morrow - 10 550 17 88 105
-Bill Baker - 3 143 7 25 32

-Jim Craig (G) - 3 yrs - 30 games
-Steve Janaszak (G) - 2 yrs - 3 games

Did not play in NHL:

-Mike Eruzione
-Phil Verchota
-William "Buzz" Schneider
-Eric Strobel
-John Harrington
-Bob Suter
-Mark Wells

And NJD Jester's point, which you completely missed was that the Miracle team were not NHL players at the time - and that's why they are legends today.

I fully understood his point. Sure these weren't NHL players YET but the NHL drew a great benefit from 1980.

But the NHL drew a great benefit because the sport of hockey got a lot of attention and publicity, not because the players went on to the NHL. If none of the players ever went on to the NHL, the boost the NHL got wouldn't have been much different.

Hell, a week, a month, a year after Lake Placid, if you asked the average American, or even the average NHL fan, to even name any of the Gold Medal winning team, you would have gotten maybe Jim Craig, Mike Eruzione, Herb Brooks, and possibly Ken Morrow (only after the Isles Cup and the whole first player to win a Gold Medal and a Stanly Cup in the same year thing).

Contrast this to the boost the NBA got from the first Dream Team at the olympics in '92. It's 13 years later, and I (not really a BBall fan) can name most of the team off the top of my head - Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Ewing, Robinson, Pippen, Mullen, Malone, Stockton. The only two I messed were Drexler and Laettner. Yet, being a big hockey fan, and just watching the Tivo-ed Miracle game again, maybe a month ago, could name only about half the team off the top of my head.

The Miracle game made a much bigger impact on the national consciousness than the dream team, but the NBA got a much bigger boost than the NHL ever did.