NHLPA should Decertify!!!

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Mighty Duck, Feb 20, 2005.

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  1. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    I think the NHLPA should decertify, and let the NHL hang themselves. Why should the players put themselves in a situation where they take all the blame. Decertify, and force the owners to budget their own teams. It should not be the the responsibility ot the NHLPA to set the budgets for the teams. Decertifying would force them to do that. Every player would be on his own, and would be accountable only to the team he is contracted to play for. There would no gamle in the draft as players would be signed only if they can perform. Like the NFL, there would be no over head for a farm team, as players might play on a farm team, but have no accountability except the team he plays for. If a player is needed from a farm, the team he is playing for would have to be paid a release fee. America stands for free enterprise, and this is how the NHL, or any other business should be run, and no agreements should be put in place to circumvent the laws of our lands. Your thoughts!!!! :dunno:
     
  2. likea

    likea Registered User

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    if the NHLPA did that, the 3rd and 4th line players who are easily replaceable but make up the majority of the NHL would be making 100,000 a year

    remember, if the decertify...no min., no benefits, no pension fund, no meal money on the road...ect...ect...
     
  3. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    Decertification = No league minimum, no guaranteed contracts, no arbitration, probably all contracts would be two-way, no pension plan contributions...

    There are probably many other ways that the players lose out by decertifying while on the other hand the NHL loses the draft and player reserve system. This sounds like a much worse deal for the players than for the owners.
     
  4. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    If that is what the market dictates, so be it. But I am sure each player would find it's place in the market. Also, the free market would balance teams, as there are some very good players in the minors who are restricted of playing because of the present conditions. The bottom line, in America, we preach free enterprise, but we think it is OK to break the laws of the land to suit our fancy. It seems the NHL wants it's cake, well let them eat it. I for one vote "Decertify" :yo:
     
  5. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    I for one, think players, and I am talking about all the players, not just a select few, would have a fair shot at playing, performance would improve, a plus for the fans, players and owners. I know for a fact, that players have a burr up their bonnet because they are locked into a team until they are 31. The NFL, players become UFA's after their 1st contract. As far as the draft is concerned, it is a dead horse financially, to big a gamble. Don't sign players until they are ready to play, let them sign minor league contracts on their own if they aren't ready. Maybe these players stay in the junior ranks longer. If they are good enough, so be it.
     
  6. Hoek

    Hoek 001

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    It would be a fun experiment, but not a prudent course of action.
     
  7. wazee

    wazee Registered User

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    The union will not decertify because it would lose all its power...meaning, its leaders would lose all their power, so they will never recommend a vote to decertify. It might be fun to talk about but it will not happen.
     
  8. Hoek

    Hoek 001

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    My understanding is they would only do that to threaten the league with antitrust suits anyway.
     
  9. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Sure, the lower end players would make less than if there were a union. That didn't stop the NFLPA, with about twice the number of players, from decertifying. Or the NBPA from voting to do it in the early 90's. And those players didn't have a rabid hatred for their commissioner that hockey players do. If it came to a vote, I have no doubt the PA would decertify, especially after yesterday's farce.
     
  10. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    The owners would welcome decertification.

    The players would hate the results and would end up forming a PA with a much more compliant attitude.

    Check the NFLPA and the history of decertification for a brief history lesson.
     
  11. pacde

    pacde Registered User

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    Yeah, honestly I think it would be best for all involved if they did. Even if they did win all their antitrust suits - which as I understand it only apply to players under contract - the NHL would be far better off in a year or three when the players are playing for a couple hundred thousand average and the owners are recouping their losses in a syndicated league where there is only one committee that officially owns all the teams and the current owners would only be shareholders. That way one committee could keep a finger on the purse and everyone sells their team to the committee for $1.

    That would be the outcome post decertification. The players would really get learned in that instance. They might win in the short term but no more NHLPA to keep the league honest in the future.
     
  12. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    I find it rather amusing that these guys get meal money while on the road and some euro players get their airfare paid from their home country back to North America :shakehead
     
  13. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    Yep, NYR would love it, no cap, UFA, no draft, no restrictions, other than their own.
     
  14. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    Are you defining revenue sharing here, buddy, as that would get voted out faster than man dropping his pants after she says yes, I will give you :amazed:
     
  15. Weary

    Weary Registered User

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    A lesson of the advantages of decertification.
     
  16. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Yeah, seriosly. I normally ignore that guy, but couldn't help but read his post quoted in yours. The NFLPA got everything they wanted thru decertification. NBPA too, though it was only a threat.
     
  17. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Please list the 4 PA in order of strongest to weakest.

    NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL.

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
     
  18. Spezza

    Spezza Registered User

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    Although Decertification does mean all of that. Am I not right in saying that it could also mean that Player A could up and leave Team B whenever they feel like it. You better believe that after being burned a couple of times that some other benefits in kind would appear. The major loser are the smaller markets who are desperate to keep their costs down, they're hardly going to be first choice locations for players, the good drafting teams also probably lose out a little bit too.

    Another poster mentioned that the league could just employ everyone. Thats a good point, although I'm not sure if they wouldn't get done by antitrust laws. Oh, yeah and that assumes everyone is on the same page. Some people will no doubt want to try and win.
     
  19. SuperUnknown

    SuperUnknown Registered User

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    The problem the players would face with decertification is that a new union would rise soon after. That new union will have less leverage than the first one. If 10 teams decide not to play after a decertification, how will the 200+ players left out react?
     
  20. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Decertify and Players under contract are traded to operating teams (bad news for UFAs) or sent to the minors if they are on two-way contracts.

    Playoffs then have to be cut to best of 8 from best of 16 because 16/20 is just plain stupid.

    8 teams get into a bidding war and have payrolls in the $60m-80m range. Which is no different from now.

    4 teams stay around $35m-40m.

    8 teams ice $10m-15m teams. They can't win with $25m payrolls why get into bidding wars. Go cheap and hope the declining ticket revenue covers it. We will see a lot of players that used be $1m-$2m range getting offers between $300K-500K/y. They will have to take them because there won't be any other offers.

    10 teams suspended operations just as Edmonton threatened to do. They wait until the NHLPA realises 33% are now jobless, a further 40% are much worse off than before.


    Meltdown, chaos.
     
  21. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    Decertification worked fairly well because the NFLPA determined they could not win a labour law war so they decertified. They did that because the courts said that as long as there was a union they could not use antitrust law - many sports law and labour law experts are very critical of that court decsion but there it sits until the US Supreme Court reconsiders. The NFLPA was seeking free agency and the end of the Rozelle Rule.

    The NFLPA executives and legal counsel were retained as personal representatives of the players and series of antitrust suits as personal actions and class actions were brought. It took over five years but the owners finally gave in, paid $195 million to settle the antitrust suits and accepted free agency. Whereupon the NFLPA reconstituted as a union and signed a new CBA.

    BTW the salry cap that was part of the deal had been proposed by Ed Garvey, Executive Director of the NFLPA to try to get a greater portion of the revenue pie for the players. Kind of ironic. Here is David Stern talking about the genesis of the salary cap in an interview:

    The NBA players led by Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing threatened to decertify and in fact had decertification notices signed and in the hands of union, when the NBA backed down.

    Until 1998 with the passage of the Curt Flood Act, the MLBPA had no alternative but to use labour law because MLB had a judicial exemption from antitrust which was eliminated for labour relations matters. That is why in 1994 the MLBPA had to fight the owners at the NLRB to get an injunction ending the "scabball" experiment. In the last MLB negotiations after the Curt Flood Act was in effect the MLBPA threatened decertification and the MLB owners backed off their cap demand.

    Decertification is a nuclear deterrent but if the NHL players determine they have more to gain than lose - and the way that the dispute is going that may be sooner rather than later- it could be a viable option. The last thing the NHL will ever want to do is play without antitrust protection - no draft, no restricted free agents, no cap, etc.
     
  22. skolgoar

    skolgoar Registered User

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    You obviously don't know any NFL players. Other than the handful of players who negotiate their deals, there are no guaranteed contracts in the NFL. In other words, you have no guarantee from week to week that you will get a paycheck.

    A friend of mine talked about how Mondays were rest days in the NFL. They were also try out days - every Monday, teams bring in players on tryout to see how they will fit. If they work out, teams simply dump another rostered player with no payout or repercussions (unless they are injured - you can't dump injured players).

    The owners in the NHL would love this deal. They could negotiate big guaranteed deals with the superstars and then simply rotate other players around them. Heck, the third tier players and even some second tier players would have to play for their jobs every game and practice.

    Unfortunately players would never go for this type of deal because there is no guarantee of where they would play or even if they would have a job week to week.
     
  23. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    The more I think about it, decertification is looking better and better. I think it would be an easy sell to the players too. The marginal guys know they'd end up making less with no union, but how much less than if there's a $30 million or less cap? And the players want to see Bettman destroyed. No other sport has a commissioner so despised by its players.
     
  24. Steve L*

    Steve L* Registered User

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    On the other hand, no other league has it players more despised by their fans than the NHL.
     
  25. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    And I'm sure they've lost tons of sleep over that.
     
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