NHLPA and Jake Dotchin file grievance against Tampa Bay

Krewe

Registered User
Mar 12, 2019
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1,917
Imagine siding with billionaires that just want to exploit people for as much profit as possible over the actual workers that actually put butts in the seats lmao
Well to be fair, our owner has done way more to improve my life personally and the city as a whole than any player has done..... But he also might be an outlier. I would trade any of our players before changing our ownership.

EDIT: A good owner should be treating their position as a CEO. If they don't or are hands off then yeah they are replaceable. But a solid/competent ownership group is way more important to franchise success in the long run than any players will ever be, short of drafting someone like Crosby
 
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NeverBeNormal

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Mar 27, 2007
990
1,148
Imagine siding with billionaires that just want to exploit people for as much profit as possible over the actual workers that actually put butts in the seats lmao

I’m sorry but what PA function do you find redeeming? Are there any points I posted that aren’t correct?
 
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smitty10

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Aug 6, 2009
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Imagine siding with billionaires that just want to exploit people for as much profit as possible over the actual workers that actually put butts in the seats lmao
Those pesky billionaires with all the businesses the own, people they employ, pension funds they assist, services they provide and charities they support.

Having a lot of money makes you a bad person. Who cares about looking at individuals as just that.

I feel so bad for the millionaire athletes. Good thing they have a union! Should get these exploited workers another million!
 

end

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
16,857
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Arklay Mansion
I love when people who think they love the free market talk about wealthy entrepreneurs as unique moral agents who "provide services" and "create jobs" as if capitalism was philanthropy. With this understanding of business, it's really no wonder so many people fall victim to confidence scams and pyramid schemes.
 

HansonBro

Registered User
May 3, 2006
4,906
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Not sure what the point of "training camp" is if you have to show up in game shape...

Guy thought Tampa needed a big body presence in front of the net...forward thinker
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Oct 13, 2011
9,731
3,938
Colorado
Those pesky billionaires with all the businesses the own, people they employ, pension funds they assist, services they provide and charities they support.

Having a lot of money makes you a bad person. Who cares about looking at individuals as just that.

I feel so bad for the millionaire athletes. Good thing they have a union! Should get these exploited workers another million!

How many businesses would they own without the people working for them? Do you think they'd still be billionaires if they weren't taking a massive share of the revenue, despite not doing much (if any) of the work themselves?

And, those pension funds you think owners set up for altruistic reasons were actually demanded by unions in the past. Unions are also why we have 40 hour work weeks and child labor laws. But, I'm sure you'd be willing to go back to working in a dangerous factory for 80+ hours a week and getting paid in company tokens instead of real money, right?
 

CartographerNo611

Registered User
Oct 11, 2014
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He does look a little on the bigger side of things.
url
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
How many businesses would they own without the people working for them? Do you think they'd still be billionaires if they weren't taking a massive share of the revenue, despite not doing much (if any) of the work themselves?

And, those pension funds you think owners set up for altruistic reasons were actually demanded by unions in the past. Unions are also why we have 40 hour work weeks and child labor laws. But, I'm sure you'd be willing to go back to working in a dangerous factory for 80+ hours a week and getting paid in company tokens instead of real money, right?
Unions served a purpose in the past. They now serve to protect the worst workers from responsibility and create an unproductive and lazy work environment. An environment where the unskilled worker is extremely entitled and where the skilled worker is generally unmotivated. Imagine not being rewarded for your hard work, but instead following a seniority system where someone is rewarded for time served, no matter how useless they are? Sounds like a great place to work!

People provide value to a company. The person who put everything on the line to invest their money, time and blood, sweat and tears into their business are the people who should reap the largest benefits for what they've created. The people who provide the most value or rare skills to a company are compensated higher than someone with dime-a-dozen skills.

How many companies lose half their value when a factory worker quits? Now think about the repercussions (positive or negative) if a CEO resigns or an owner is involved in scandal. These are the people who take the personal risk. The people who are always on call. The people who work 70+ hours a week to grow their business. The people whose ideas and abilities have create jobs for thousands. That is why these people make the big bucks.

You think unions are the only way to get a pension? The owner of the company I work for funds a pension and benefits program for all full-time employees. We have never had or considered a union. We're hard working people who are well compensated for what we provide.

The vast majority of workers are NOT exploited in this day and age in Canada. Generally, if you work hard and see success in your actions you will be compensated very well. Clearly you have never seen what it takes to run a business. You don't just open your doors and make millions. Many business owners are good people. They're not all as evil as you make them out to be.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,731
3,938
Colorado
Unions served a purpose in the past. They now serve to protect the worst workers from responsibility and create an unproductive and lazy work environment. An environment where the unskilled worker is extremely entitled and where the skilled worker is generally unmotivated. Imagine not being rewarded for your hard work, but instead following a seniority system where someone is rewarded for time served, no matter how useless they are? Sounds like a great place to work!

People provide value to a company. The person who put everything on the line to invest their money, time and blood, sweat and tears into their business are the people who should reap the largest benefits for what they've created. The people who provide the most value or rare skills to a company are compensated higher than someone with dime-a-dozen skills.

How many companies lose half their value when a factory worker quits? Now think about the repercussions (positive or negative) if a CEO resigns or an owner is involved in scandal. These are the people who take the personal risk. The people who are always on call. The people who work 70+ hours a week to grow their business. The people whose ideas and abilities have create jobs for thousands. That is why these people make the big bucks.

You think unions are the only way to get a pension? The owner of the company I work for funds a pension and benefits program for all full-time employees. We have never had or considered a union. We're hard working people who are well compensated for what we provide.

The vast majority of workers are NOT exploited in this day and age in Canada. Generally, if you work hard and see success in your actions you will be compensated very well. Clearly you have never seen what it takes to run a business. You don't just open your doors and make millions. Many business owners are good people. They're not all as evil as you make them out to be.

Actually, unions still serve a purpose, because not everyone can work for a small Canadian company that actually cares about their employees. I don't disagree that many small business owners are good people who want to take care of their employees. I have friends and family who run successful small businesses and do everything they can to take care of their employees. But, their companies are privately owned and they employ less than 100 people. Things change considerably when the company has 10,000+ employees and shareholders that they need to satisfy, especially when that company operates here in the US.

As a counter to your ideal Canadian company, imagine being a hard working, highly skilled employee and instead of being rewarded for your efforts, you get laid off because the shareholders have determined that they can keep more profit for themselves if they outsource your entire department overseas, where people will work for pennies on the dollar compared to here in the US. Or imagine having a great idea, but being unfortunate to have that idea while working for a company that forced you to sign an intellectual property agreement when you started, which results in the idea legally belonging to the company instead of you. Or imagine having your health insurance tied to your employment, so the shareholders of your company get to pick which doctors you are eligible to see.

So, just because you have it pretty good in Canada doesn't mean that there aren't people out there working for Walmart who are limited to only getting 28 hours on the schedule because anything more than that would result in them qualifying for benefits (like paid time off and health insurance). Unions still serve a purpose, even if those purposes don't apply to your specific situation.
 

TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,061
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Toronto
I work a boring office / desk job, but hit the gym three times a week and avoid eating terribly, but still enjoy some beer and wings etc and stay relatively fit

How the hell does a professional athlete making hundreds of thousands of dollars show up to camp 30 pounds overweight with a body fat of 25%? Completely mind boggling to me that a guy gives that little effort to his career or health
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
I work a boring office / desk job, but hit the gym three times a week and avoid eating terribly, but still enjoy some beer and wings etc and stay relatively fit

How the hell does a professional athlete making hundreds of thousands of dollars show up to camp 30 pounds overweight with a body fat of 25%? Completely mind boggling to me that a guy gives that little effort to his career or health

We all have different ways of dealing with our demons.
 

cptjeff

Reprehensible User
Sep 18, 2008
20,384
33,943
Washington, DC.
Somewhere, Phil Kessel has begun quietly perspiring.

Phil Kessel is a good example of why the NHLPA can never let this stand. He's a guy who's monumentally overweight for a pro player, but is skilled enough that teams don't care. But if the Lightning's standards hold, if his contract becomes a burden, instead of paying him guaranteed money or going through difficulty trying to trade him, the Pens could have just cut his contract. Via a team rule, a team could very easily create a pretext for other small issues to cancel other guaranteed contracts.

If what the Lightning did is left to stand, it's a very, very easy end run around guaranteed contracts, and the players accepted a lot of what they did in the various CBA battles because they still have guaranteed contracts. Regardless of what happens, they get paid for the full value. That is a HUGE thing for players. If owners devise a shortcut around it, that's not a small deal, and that's what the Lightning are effectively trying to do. They're trying to end guaranteed contracts, at least for their own team. It's utter BS. If you've followed my posts for any length of time (and I don't know why you would) you'd find that I'm almost always on the side of the owners in CBA battles. But I'm 100% with the players here- the CBA gives them guaranteed contracts. Yeah, Dotchin showing up out of shape is unprofessional. If the team wants to bench him, waive him down to the AHL or suspend him according to team rules, great. But they can't undermine the rule of guaranteed contracts by trying to not pay him.
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
Phil Kessel is a good example of why the NHLPA can never let this stand. He's a guy who's monumentally overweight for a pro player, but is skilled enough that teams don't care. But if the Lightning's standards hold, if his contract becomes a burden, instead of paying him guaranteed money or going through difficulty trying to trade him, the Pens could have just cut his contract. Via a team rule, a team could very easily create a pretext for other small issues to cancel other guaranteed contracts.

If what the Lightning did is left to stand, it's a very, very easy end run around guaranteed contracts, and the players accepted a lot of what they did in the various CBA battles because they still have guaranteed contracts. Regardless of what happens, they get paid for the full value. That is a HUGE thing for players. If owners devise a shortcut around it, that's not a small deal, and that's what the Lightning are effectively trying to do. They're trying to end guaranteed contracts, at least for their own team. It's utter BS. If you've followed my posts for any length of time (and I don't know why you would) you'd find that I'm almost always on the side of the owners in CBA battles. But I'm 100% with the players here- the CBA gives them guaranteed contracts. Yeah, Dotchin showing up out of shape is unprofessional. If the team wants to bench him, waive him down to the AHL or suspend him according to team rules, great. But they can't undermine the rule of guaranteed contracts by trying to not pay him.
It's a misconception that Kessel shows up to camp overweight. He just has a chubby face. Ever seen him in person? He's not overweight at all.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,889
7,398
New York
Gotta think the player is going to win this. Guaranteed contracts are a huge deal for he players, I'd be surprised if a team gets away with terminating one over a subjective evaluation of a player. I'm not opposed to some benchmark for what type of shape a player should be in, but there isn't one now and wasn't one when they terminated this contract.
 

TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
12,023
17,502
For people who don't see the problem in this, just wait until a team terminates an albatross contract for fitness reasons to get out of paying them. I bet you won't feel the same way at that point.

That's the "slippery slope" argument, an argumentative fallacy. Just because A. happens does not mean it will lead to B.

Look, without the details none of really know what happened, but the evidence would seem to point to this being an obvious and extreme case. The NHLPA has a duty to argue on the behalf of the players, and of course the guy is gonna argue for his money.

I'm not sure how clear the CBA is on this, but if you show up outta shape- dude, our contract is for you to perform a job, because of your behavior you can't perform said job. The testing procedure may need standardizing and/or transparency, but saying that this will lead to teams getting out of Lucic deals- no, it won't, otherwise that'd already have happened. Clearly TB thought this case warranted actions that usually aren't available, so I view it as a massive leap to assume that this singular case will determine what teams do in the future. If it were easy to fudge other teams would be doing it already, I think TB felt justified here because it was such an egregious and unusual instance. The NHLPA and owners will have their lil squabble over this, but I think the resolution will be "don't show up completely outta shape because of your own doing. Simple."
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
Those pesky billionaires with all the businesses the own, people they employ, pension funds they assist, services they provide and charities they support.

Having a lot of money makes you a bad person. Who cares about looking at individuals as just that.

I feel so bad for the millionaire athletes. Good thing they have a union! Should get these exploited workers another million!

Gee I wonder how pensions began....:laugh:
 

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