NHL Vegas wants to buy AHL team and move it to LV

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LadyStanley

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@smitty10 sounds like VGK would not share facilities with VSK (Vegas Silver Knights, for abbreviation purposes). There's a new facility being built in conjunction with the city of Henderson (about 25 miles from the facility that VGK uses), which sounds like they'll be HQ'd there. Some development coaches may do double duty with the AHL team.

(But I'd expect VGK brass to attend every VSK game, scheduling conflicts notwithstanding)

Jesus Christ.... 3 years ago this city didn't even have a single team and now they've got 2 professional teams and now possibly an AHL affiliate.

VGK franchise date is 6/1/2016. (Which is more than three years ago. :sarcasm:)

Before VGK: 51s (MiLB)
After VGK: 51s->Aviators (MiLB), Lights FC (USL), Aces (WNBA), Raiders (NFL)

I count five now. Six if there's an AHL team.

If you really want to get technical, only the Lights play in the city of Las Vegas. The Strip is part of (city of) Paradise, which is where VGK plays, and Raiders and Aces. 51s played in LV city, but made a name change when they changed venues to the (city of) Summerlin.
 
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JMCx4

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... Before VGK: 51s (MiLB)
After VGK: 51s->Aviators (MiLB), Lights FC (USL), Aces (WNBA), Raiders (NFL)

I count five now. Six if there's an AHL team.

If you really want to get technical, only the Lights play in the city of Las Vegas. The Strip is part of (city of) Paradise, which is where VGK plays, and Raiders and Aces. 51s played in LV city, but made a name change when they changed venues to the (city of) Summerlin.
@LadyStanley: Your Spoiler will be lost on anyone with the mindset that "professional teams" are restricted to the traditional Top 4 major U.S. pro sports leagues.
 

smitty10

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Being in the same city also detracts the attention that they receive from the market since most of the concentration is on the NHL squad. Toronto is a city of 5 million with an equally wealthy and hockey obsessed population. They're the exception, not the standard. Check out the Winnipeg and San José attendance. For San José, they just bankroll the team and don't care that they have turnstile count under 1,000. For Winnipeg, they've actively been looking to move the team out, most recently to Thunder Bay. That, and the AHL doesn't get to work with the NHL coaching staff unless they're called up. Sharing a facility is pretty minor, and organizational culture can be done from anywhere. LA and Manchester had it and breathed it and they were on opposite sides of the country. The ideal situation that is apparent with the new AHL is placing them in their own market 1-3 hours away. It's close enough to satisfy easy call-ups, the minor league gets to be in their own market, and it helps market the NHL club. And in the case of some clubs like Vancouver, keeping the young kids away from the prying eyes and predatory sports media is far more important than sharing facilities and easy call-ups.
I agree that there are definitely some downfalls for having both in the same city. As you've said with the Winnipeg situation it doesn't work. I think that's where this shows that for small market teams it's good to have them within that 1-3 hour distance, while larger markets can handle them within the same city or a suburb of said city.

Toronto dumps a ton of money into their minor league program and doesn't really seem to care about finances. They treat them as close to as an NHL team as you can get. As long as they're winning games and developing prospects as they have been, Toronto will probably continue this. I think for teams on a budget this wouldn't be a winning formula though, so I see what you mean about it being more of an anomaly.
 
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smitty10

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@LadyStanley: Your Spoiler will be lost on anyone with the mindset that "professional teams" are restricted to the traditional Top 4 major U.S. pro sports leagues.
I think it's about level of play in some people's minds. I have a good buddy who played in the ECHL who tells people he played 'minor pro' because he didn't play at the top level (played AA level instead and was a captain in the OHL). Now, I think his mindset also comes from his dad having won 5 Stanley Cups with the Isles and Oilers back in the 80's and a family relation to Bobby Baun as well. A lot of his friends/teammates also went on to play in the NHL and have successful careers. Compared to them I guess he doesn't see it as quite as professional.

At the same point, I have another friend who played NLL and whatever the equivalent in field lacrosse is and he's open that he played pro sports, even though his salary was around $10k/year.

People who played at the top level are more likely to consider it pro than those who 'didn't make it', IMO.
 

JMCx4

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I think it's about level of play in some people's minds. I have a good buddy who played in the ECHL who tells people he played 'minor pro' because he didn't play at the top level (played AA level instead and was a captain in the OHL). ... People who played at the top level are more likely to consider it pro than those who 'didn't make it', IMO.
I'm FAR below "didn't make it,' but I do use the "minor pro" descriptor in an attempt to highlight to people unfamiliar with hockey the difference between amateurs & pros. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who receives a contract yielding regular payment for specialized sports services is "a pro."
 

smitty10

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I'm FAR below "didn't make it,' but I do use the "minor pro" descriptor in an attempt to highlight to people unfamiliar with hockey the difference between amateurs & pros. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who receives a contract yielding regular payment for specialized sports services is "a pro."
He received about $12k/year he said to play. Tough to consider that anything more than a part-time job.
 

JMCx4

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He received about $12k/year he said to play. Tough to consider that anything more than a part-time job.
I'll stick with the Cambridge English Dictionary definition of a "profession": "any type of work, esp. one that needs a high level of education or a particular skill ..." Unfortunately, some "professions" don't pay enough for the professional to make a living wage. :(
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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I'm still trying to wrap my head about the Blackhawks putting their AHL team in Las Vegas as a rumor. How do you do that? Chicago is a massive enough city that supports multiple sports franchises, but the Las Vegas metropolitan area likely would not be supportive of the non-Golden Knights team, so they'd only stick around as a money sink.

And, while the AHL will most likely stay a 1-to-1 ratio of perfect affiliation, there is something that kind of throws a wrench to that argument; the NBA G-League. Next season, the NBA will introduce the Captains of Mexico City (Capitanes de Ciudad de Mexico) into the fold, but the Capitanes will remain independent as far as we know. If the NBA can have a team be independent while two of its own teams (Portland and Denver) still don't have affiliations, what's there to stop the AHL from having an independent team? The ECHL has independent teams, but they're either due to the teams wanting to be competitive like the Chicago Wolves (often Fort Wayne, whom Vegas is affiliated with) or because NHL or AHL teams do not want anything to do with them (as is currently the case with the Norfolk Admirals), but the ECHL is rarely used as developmental for players and is more or less their own thing. I know the AHL kneels to whatever the NHL says, which is why we got the Pacific Division and the scheduling imbalance which I still hate, but the Wolves make things very interesting.
JD:

THE G-League has nothing to do with this..... the AHL banned the use of Independents after watching Baltimore and Binghamton be total disasters on the ice well before the collapse of the IHL in 2001, which is why the AHL doesn't allow franchises to be Independent.... ECHL allows it, but for how much longer, and even in normal cases, it's a year or two, anyway.

where has it been said anywhere that the Nuggets and/or the Blazers are wanting to add the expense of owning and operating an affiliate team..... in the Blazers case, who actually is operating Vulcan Sports and Entertainment, which has interests in both Portland, OR, and Seattle, since the world lost Paul Allen, and what cities and/or arenas are even options for a non-affiliated franchise
 

Tommy Hawk

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The last independent AHL team was the Worcester IceCats, in 1994-95.

Which was before the IHL dissolved and some teams joined the AHL where all of them when they joined were required to have a full NHL affiliate (Wolves had a partial with the islanders in the IHL).



JD:

THE G-League has nothing to do with this..... the AHL banned the use of Independents after watching Baltimore and Binghamton be total disasters on the ice well before the collapse of the IHL in 2001, which is why the AHL doesn't allow franchises to be Independent.... ECHL allows it, but for how much longer, and even in normal cases, it's a year or two, anyway.

where has it been said anywhere that the Nuggets and/or the Blazers are wanting to add the expense of owning and operating an affiliate team..... in the Blazers case, who actually is operating Vulcan Sports and Entertainment, which has interests in both Portland, OR, and Seattle, since the world lost Paul Allen, and what cities and/or arenas are even options for a non-affiliated franchise

Please site your sources for this information.... :)
 

JMCx4

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Can't take anyone seriously who doesn't know the expression is "It just dawned on me..."
Could've been an autocorrect thing, but the Twitterverse (and HFB) is a tough crowd. Check your work. :nono:
 
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axecrew

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Feb 6, 2007
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Wolves just can't keep affiliations... this is getting rediculous.

Just move the the franchise up to the NHL already and be done with it.

You obviously didn't read much of the article...How is it that the Wolves can't keep affiliates in your eyes?
They've had 4 in 20 seasons...2 of which moved or are moving their affiliate closer to their home base. But they can't keep affiliates...yet calgary has blown thru what 5 or 6 cities/affiliations in that same time and you don't mention that...
 

G50

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May 21, 2011
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You obviously didn't read much of the article...How is it that the Wolves can't keep affiliates in your eyes?
They've had 4 in 20 seasons...2 of which moved or are moving their affiliate closer to their home base. But they can't keep affiliates...yet calgary has blown thru what 5 or 6 cities/affiliations in that same time and you don't mention that...

Exactly why I treat the AHL and NHL separately in terms of who my hockey teams are.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Mar 4, 2002
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Should AHL expand to 36 teams and let 4 teams be independent?
never happen, BK...... THE RULE has been there since the Baltimore/Binghamton days, (the Penguins affiliation)and the way the League has now expanded that since in the last 18 + years even when they added the 6 midwest teams, to go from 21 to 27 where it is now a requisite part of the franchise application, nevermind what cities haven't been tried and not stepping into other leagues territory to poach teams, and the financial constraints of operating a franchise.
 
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