NHL TV Ratings and Revenue

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MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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I say who cares. If you want to watch hockey, fine. If you don't, fine. The fact that other people dont care about the NHL shouldn't affect our enjoyment of the league. We need to just take the NHL for what it is.

That's fine Chileiceman,

This is The Business of Hockey forum and that's why it is posted here. There plenty of other forums on this site in which you can discuss your enjoyment of the league.

GHOST
 

WheatiesHockey

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
585
5
The best avenue is mass market broadcasting through network television. Pay per view is pretty uncertain and not nearly the great revenue marketing vehicle it was thought to be in its early years. The NFL Super Bowl is not pay per view and 1/3 of planet earth watches the event. Make the Super Bowl pay per view the audience will shrink substantially and one minute ads will sell for a whole lot less. If it becomes pay per view hockey the consumers like any one else will cherry pick and only watch the games they really want to watch.
Mass marketing television is a great deal more difficult in a 1000 channel universe, but it can still be done through the appropriate channels. People are already paying in some instances 90-100 bucks a month for cable and asking them to pay $10 for a game they may or may not like is really pushing the envelope. If it is going to be $10 for every game they might want to watch then it will be a hard sell. People will devote their dollars to only watching a handful of the best teams given that option. Lets say though a hockey fan with TSN on cable has a chance to watch the featured game of the night with Columbus playing Philadelphia by pressing a button to see what is happening, well that is an audience for media advertising even if the game is boring and dull.
Right now the Oilers could put all their games on pay per view and who would watch?
League and regional mass marketing works a whole better for all parties. The NFL found that out years ago.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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You are posting old articles that have already been discussed here, and WAY too much of them, I might add.

The whole idea of this thread is to get as much info as possible on the TV ratings and revenues for the NHL, both local and national, and to place them all in one spot. That will involve linking 'old articles' not only new ones. How silly would that be? As the thread starter I encourage this; in fact, that's the purpose of this thread.

Feel free not to view this thread if you have a problem with that.

GHOST
 

Sotnos

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Jul 8, 2002
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Not here
www.boltprospects.com
LOL, getting snarky now are we? I love it when people put in "rules" for their threads and demand people follow them, it's pretty amusing.

Anyway, just to clarify, I was letting you know that first off you're violating the supposed copyright rules for these boards by quoting 1,000 words from one article, and secondly you're not getting a lot of discussion because you're bringing up things that have already been discussed (or beaten to death) for the most part.

Carry on
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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Maroons Rd.
:)
LOL, getting snarky now are we? I love it when people put in "rules" for their threads and demand people follow them, it's pretty amusing.

Anyway, just to clarify, I was letting you know that first off you're violating the supposed copyright rules for these boards by quoting 1,000 words from one article, and secondly you're not getting a lot of discussion because you're bringing up things that have already been discussed (or beaten to death) for the most part.

Carry on

UH, thanks for the clarification Sotnos. Perhaps I did overreact. :amazed: I thought you were referring to the number of articles rather than amount of each article and that's understandable because the way you wrote was ambiguous (to me at least; post too "much", too "many"...subtle difference, but yes probably my fault). Still, that doesn't explain your "beaten to death" or "rules" comment, so let me explain.

I'm not making up any rules or telling others what they can or cannot do/say on this thread (I have no right to do that and besides I'm Mr. Free Speech and wouldn't even like that!). I'm just explaining the reason why I started this thread and that it has to do with the business of hockey not the enjoyment of hockey. Sheesh, do I really have to explain that in this forum??

The reason I made this thread (read the first post) is to gather as much information as possible on a subject for which facts and figures are not easy to come by in one place and for which there is mostly only anecdotal evidence in the press. I want to look at the figures and the trends re the TV ratings and revenues the NHL achieves. (And I want those that are interested to join me and share what ever they can dig up.) By necessity, therefore, it requires posting 'old articles,' etc., otherwise we'd have to wait forever for new events and new stories to occur. I guess this thread is intended to be a little different in that way. There are so many 'hit and run' one-off stories that fade away. I wanted this to be more substantial. I think if people are interested in discussing the business of hockey seriously, the information should be organized in a logical way.

Have you been to a library? How would you like it if the books were randomly stacked?

OH, I apologize if I came off as "snarky" because I'm really not that way. I value anyone's input, including your intelligent input. So, I look forward to something substantial from ya!

GHOST

PS: your HF copyright rules comment is duly noted. I believe all of my posts fell well within the definition of "fair use."
 
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PunjabiOil*

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On the regional cable channel (Sportsnet West), the Oilers average 125,000 viewers per game.

Vancouver (Sportsnet Pacific) draw a Canada high 360,000 per game
 

PunjabiOil*

Guest
Canada high? You forgot RDS ratings for habs games (Around 750 000 per game)

The numbers I'm getting are from an article in the past.

Vancouver even outdraws the Maple Laughs.

750,000 for the Habs? That seems far too high. Source?
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

Registered User
Feb 17, 2005
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Denver area
On the regional cable channel (Sportsnet West), the Oilers average 125,000 viewers per game.

Vancouver (Sportsnet Pacific) draw a Canada high 360,000 per game
What is the size of the viewing market covered by each of these channels? That would help put this into perspective in terms of a rating number. Alternatively, what are the viewer numbers associated with the two cities, specifically (i.e., number of viewers they get per game in Edmonton and in Vancouver)? Taken together with the number of television homes in the respective cities, that would at least provide a rating number for each.
 

Limey FK

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Feb 25, 2004
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Slightly OT.... anyone know the total number of CI subscribers in the US and Canada?

Speaking of which. Do any rating services take into account center ice subscribers? If hockey does have a more rabid passionate fanbase (albeit smaller) as advertised, transplanted fans I'm sure poney up the $ to watch their favorite teams out of market. (I'm one of them!)
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
6,522
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In french:
Well not 750 000 but 692 000. Not 2 bad? In fact its the highest average viewers/games in the NHL.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20061222/CPSPORTS/612220710&SearchID=73274667689567

I'm curious, does Montreal do what some of the other Canadian teams do(Leafs and Canucks for example) by putting some of their games on the Theatre Screens? Apparently those are popular in the respective markets. And matter, I would think those numbers are added when those games come up(the Theatre games)
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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In french:
Well not 750 000 but 692 000. Not 2 bad? In fact its the highest average viewers/games in the NHL.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20061222/CPSPORTS/612220710&SearchID=73274667689567


Thanks True_Canadiens. That's useful info.

I've tried a rough translation of the relevant paragraph.

Quote:

"Le match Canadien-Buffalo a permis à RDS de franchir le million de spectateurs pour la sixième fois cette saison, avec une pointe à 1 062 000. La moyenne générale après 33 matches est de 692 000, contre 561 000 l'an dernier."

Translation:

"The Canadiens-Buffalo game allowed the RDS network to surpass the one million audience mark for the sixth time this season, with an audience of 1,062,000. The average audience this season after 33 games is 692,000, compared to 561,000 last season"

Any native French speakers out there, feel free to improve on this or point out any errors.

An average audience of 692,000 viewers with six games over the one million mark is remarkable considering statscan estimates the entire population of Quebec at 7,651,531 people (July 2006).

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060927/d060927a.htm

GHOST
 
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Chileiceman

Registered User
Dec 14, 2004
9,863
709
Toronto
Thanks True_Canadiens. That's useful info.

I've tried a rough translation of the relevant paragraph.

Quote:

"Le match Canadien-Buffalo a permis à RDS de franchir le million de spectateurs pour la sixième fois cette saison, avec une pointe à 1 062 000. La moyenne générale après 33 matches est de 692 000, contre 561 000 l'an dernier."

Translation:

"The Canadiens-Buffalo game allowed the RDS network to surpass the one million audience mark for the sixth time this season, with an audience of 1,062,000. The average audience this season after 33 games is 692,000, compared to 561,000 last season"

Any native French speakers out there, feel free to improve on this or point out any errors.

An average audience of 692,000 viewers with six games over the one million mark is remarkable considering statscan estimates the entire population Quebec at 7,651,531 people (July 2006).

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060927/d060927a.htm

GHOST
Isn't RDS available nationally? And considering there are lots of Habs fans throughout Canada, that audience is not all Quebec. But probably a large percentage though.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Isn't RDS available nationally? And considering there are lots of Habs fans throughout Canada, that audience is not all Quebec. But probably a large percentage though.
Yes, it is, you beat me to it. A third of New Brunswick is French, a large number of Ontarians are French, and a number of Habs fans (like me) watch the games in spite of our lapsed bilingualism. The Habs viewership is definitely on the upswing, though.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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Isn't RDS available nationally? And considering there are lots of Habs fans throughout Canada, that audience is not all Quebec. But probably a large percentage though.

It's not included in my cable package which comprises roughly 80 or 90 channels. I'm sure you can get it though somehow. According to Wikipedia, RDS is available in 2.5 million homes. Nielsen Media Research estimate that there are 12,834,000 TV household in Canada. If those numbers are correct, RDS is available in less than 20% of Canadian homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réseau_des_sports#External_link
http://www.nielsenmedia.ca/

Yes, it is, you beat me to it. A third of New Brunswick is French, a large number of Ontarians are French, and a number of Habs fans (like me) watch the games in spite of our lapsed bilingualism. The Habs viewership is definitely on the upswing, though.

That’s true gscarpenter2002. According to the statscan link New Brunswick’s total population is 749,168 (the French population according to your percentage would be about 250,000). Also, you're right there are a large number of French in Ontario.

Anyway, those are still very good numbers anyway you look at it. Don’t you agree?

GHOST
 
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GSC2k2*

Guest
It's not included in my cable package which comprises roughly 80 or 90 channels. I'm sure you can get it though somehow. According to Wikipedia, RDS is available in 2.5 million homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réseau_des_sports#External_link



That’s true gscarpenter2002. According to the statscan link New Brunswick’s total population is 749,168 (the French population according to your percentage would be about 250,000). Also, you're right there are a large number of French in Ontario.

Anyway, those are still very good numbers anyway you look at it. Don’t you agree?

GHOST


I was born in NB, so I would expect my guess was fairly accurate. Yes, they are excellent numbers, as you might expect for the signature franchise in the league. Decades of history and all those Cups will do that for you. By the looks of it, it appears to be an 8 or 10 rating or so.
 

WheatiesHockey

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
585
5
Anyone ever notice that the NFL salary cap is just about the same as the shared revenues from media coverage rights? Any given NFL team could literally not sell one ticket and still probably make a profit.
 

Rick Middleton

Registered User
May 14, 2002
72,016
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Ottawa, ON
:)

UH, thanks for the clarification Sotnos. Perhaps I did overreact. :amazed: I thought you were referring to the number of articles rather than amount of each article and that's understandable because the way you wrote was ambiguous (to me at least; post too "much", too "many"...subtle difference, but yes probably my fault). Still, that doesn't explain your "beaten to death" or "rules" comment, so let me explain.

I'm not making up any rules or telling others what they can or cannot do/say on this thread (I have no right to do that and besides I'm Mr. Free Speech and wouldn't even like that!). I'm just explaining the reason why I started this thread and that it has to do with the business of hockey not the enjoyment of hockey. Sheesh, do I really have to explain that in this forum??

...

PS: your HF copyright rules comment is duly noted. I believe all of my posts fell well within the definition of "fair use."

For future use cite the article, quote the first couple of paragraphs and leave it at that.

Thanks,

RM
 

MLH

Registered User
Feb 6, 2003
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I'm guessing that tonight's Penguins/Sabres game will be the highest rated regular season game in Versus/OLN history. It's a match up of this seasons two best American TV markets and teams that are widely considered to be two of the most exciting clubs in the league. Combine that with the Pens arena deal and Buffalo's non-local drawing power (no one can get jobs here, there's a lot of Sabre fans in the South) and they should draw a pretty high number for a regular season cable game.
 

Namso

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
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damn rds gets some crazy high numbers for habs games.
Does anyone know the average for just saturday games? I can imagine them being around 900 000!!!
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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Maroons Rd.
Nielsen Media Research Local Market Universe Estimates

Estimates as of January 1, 2007 and used throughout the 2006-2007 television season

Effective September 23, 2006

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
1 New York 7,366,950 6.616
2 Los Angeles 5,611,110 5.039
3 Chicago 3,455,020 3.103
4 Philadelphia 2,941,450 2.642
5 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,383,570 2.141
6 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,378,660 2.136
7 Boston (Manchester) 2,372,030 2.130
8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,272,120 2.041
9 Atlanta 2,205,510 1.981

11 Detroit 1,938,320 1.741
12 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,755,750 1.577
13 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,725,000 1.549

15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,678,430 1.507
16 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,538,620 1.382

18 Denver 1,431,910 1.286

21 St. Louis 1,228,980 1.104
22 Pittsburgh 1,163,150 1.045

29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,006,330 0.904
30 Nashville 944,100 0.848

32 Columbus, OH 898,030 0.807

49 Buffalo 639,990 0.575

Here are figures for Canadian City DMA Universe Estimates of TV homes from Neilson Media Research:

Toronto/Hamiltion 2,597,000
Vancouver 1,329,000
Calgary 551,000

I couldn't find data on Montreal, Ottawa or Edmonton.

http://www.nielsenmedia.ca/

According to this data, Toronto would rank 5th in the NHL in TV market households after Philadelphia and before San Fransisco/Oak -/San Jose. Vancouver would rank 20th behind Denver and before St. Louis. Calgary would be last.

BTW, here are the top ten DMAs rankings for Canada in order of size/ranking:

1) Toronto/Hamilton/Niagara Falls, ON
2) Montreal/Laval
3) Vancouver/Victoria
4) Ottawa/Hull-Gatineau
5) Edmonton
6) Calgary/Lethbridge
--------------------------------------------
7) Quebec City-Levis
8) Winnipeg/Brandon
9) Kitchener
10) London/Woodstock/Wingham

Maps and ranking tables of United States and Canadian DMAs are provided here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

GHOST
 
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