NHL to Seattle Volume XVI - It's Official. Seattle to join the league for 21-22 season.

[gstommylee]

Still think Seattle Totems would be okay?

NHL totem poles called 'blatant cultural appropriation' pulled from some stores | CBC News

I don't think the team will go with Totems. I also doubt Krakens and we know Mentropolitans are out.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Still think Seattle Totems would be okay?

NHL totem poles called 'blatant cultural appropriation' pulled from some stores | CBC News

And this has been my general concern about that particular nickname - that someone could view it as cultural appropriation. BTW, looking at these poles, I'd have to say that I would probably agree with the people unhappy about these things - these do not reflect the kind of totem poles you see around here or how it would likely look on a team logo.

 

[gstommylee]

 

[mike14]

And this has been my general concern about that particular nickname - that someone could view it as cultural appropriation. BTW, looking at these poles, I'd have to say that I would probably agree with the people unhappy about these things - these do not reflect the kind of totem poles you see around here or how it would likely look on a team logo.

Yeah, those poles are terrible.

I'm a fan of the name 'Totem', and I think some of the jersey mockups using that name look fantastic, but I completely understand why there'd be issues with the name. I know the word has its roots in North American indigenous culture, but it's now also the English word used for many kinds of spiritual symbology.
With that in mind; could you call the team the Totems, and instead of using a totem pole for a symbol, create 'totems' for the team based on things significant to the Seattle area and use them as your uniform symbology? Come up with three team 'totems' and us a different one as the primary logo on the home, away and 3rd uniform.
Probably too much effort and requires too much explaining from the teams perspective but I think it would be an interesting and unique way to utilise an awesome team name without going down the appropriation path.

 

[gstommylee]

People may not like it or not but we'll probably end up having a water related name. My guess either steel heads or sockeyes. And people are automatically against it cause of the food chain. Again i find that the dumbest reason to not pick a name. Just cause San Jose are the sharks and Vancouver is an Orca doesn't mean we should let other team names dicate what we should call our team name. People need to get over that.

 

[Melrose Munch]

thunderbirds, pay the owners for the name.

 

[gstommylee]

thunderbirds, pay the owners for the name.

I don't see the team doing that at all.

 

[PCSPounder]

Yeah, those poles are terrible.

I'm a fan of the name 'Totem', and I think some of the jersey mockups using that name look fantastic, but I completely understand why there'd be issues with the name. I know the word has its roots in North American indigenous culture, but it's now also the English word used for many kinds of spiritual symbology.
With that in mind; could you call the team the Totems, and instead of using a totem pole for a symbol, create 'totems' for the team based on things significant to the Seattle area and use them as your uniform symbology? Come up with three team 'totems' and us a different one as the primary logo on the home, away and 3rd uniform.
Probably too much effort and requires too much explaining from the teams perspective but I think it would be an interesting and unique way to utilise an awesome team name without going down the appropriation path.

Are the Seahawks under threat of rebranding?

Not to mention the Thunderbirds, come to think of it.

Put it this way... I'm unsure if the issue has come up in Puget Sound in the last 20 years. It didn't seem to be a thing back around 1989-1991. I don't remember any objections to the teams currently using forms of the symbology.

BTW... I'm kind of using Florida State and Seminoles as one precedent and North Dakota and the Sioux as kind of the opposite here.

 

[gstommylee]

Are the Seahawks under threat of rebranding?

Not to mention the Thunderbirds, come to think of it.

Put it this way... I'm unsure if the issue has come up in Puget Sound in the last 20 years. It didn't seem to be a thing back around 1989-1991. I don't remember any objections to the teams currently using forms of the symbology.

BTW... I'm kind of using Florida State and Seminoles as one precedent and North Dakota and the Sioux as kind of the opposite here.

The only two big team issues in the recent years is the Cleveland indians and their wahoo logo and the Washington redskins. The totem name doesn't come close to reaching the issues with those 2 teams.

 

[BattleBorn]

Are the Seahawks under threat of rebranding?

Not to mention the Thunderbirds, come to think of it.

Put it this way... I'm unsure if the issue has come up in Puget Sound in the last 20 years. It didn't seem to be a thing back around 1989-1991. I don't remember any objections to the teams currently using forms of the symbology.

BTW... I'm kind of using Florida State and Seminoles as one precedent and North Dakota and the Sioux as kind of the opposite here.

Seminoles are supposedly alright since a few seminole tribes gave their okay, don't think the same thing happened with the Sioux up in North Dakota. People have tried to make an issue of the Blackhawks a few times, but Black Hawk was a chief of the Sauk, so I think they're fine with a few of Black Hawk's descendants making appearances whenever the media picks up a story. Either way, I'm fairly certain we're close to the pendulum swinging back toward equilibrium on this issue in the coming years.

All that to say, they shouldn't pick Totems due to it kind of stinking as a name, but if you can also claim a win against cultural appropriation while not selecting the name you might as well do that too.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I don't see the team doing that at all.

I AGREE with this.... otherwise Springfield would've had to pay for the rights to use said name

 

[MNNumbers]

Seminoles are supposedly alright since a few seminole tribes gave their okay, don't think the same thing happened with the Sioux up in North Dakota. People have tried to make an issue of the Blackhawks a few times, but Black Hawk was a chief of the Sauk, so I think they're fine with a few of Black Hawk's descendants making appearances whenever the media picks up a story. Either way, I'm fairly certain we're close to the pendulum swinging back toward equilibrium on this issue in the coming years.

All that to say, they shouldn't pick Totems due to it kind of stinking as a name, but if you can also claim a win against cultural appropriation while not selecting the name you might as well do that too.

With respect to University of North Dakota, there are about 9 different tribes in North Dakota which are part of the historic "Sioux Nation." Of these, 2 raised objections to the University calling themselves the Fighting Sioux. Concurrently, NCAA policy prohibited use of Native names, unless approval was obtained from the Native Tribes in question.

In spite of efforts of University Athletic Dept, no arrangement was able to be reached between UND and the 2 tribes in question, and thus, to continue in good standing with the NCAA, UND has rebranded itself, the "Fighting Hawks."

It is under the exception above, (Agreement with the local tribes) that Florida State continues to use the Seminoles name. I'm not clear on those details, but the Seminole Nation appears to enjoy its relationship with FSU, and thus, the NCAA allows that nickname on the basis of this logic, "If the tribes like the use of the name, it is not insensitive, racist, or abusive."

Of course, these things exist in the realm of public opinion and public narrative, which affects NCAA policy, and are not in any way 'legal' in the sense of state or federal statutes.

Thus in the case of SeattleNHL using a nickname connected to the Native American Nations, there is no legal precedent. The matter would simply be a question of how the school of public opinion would react. And, it's my personal belief that it wouldn't be worth the risk, especially when the area is perhaps inclined to be sensitive about such things anyway.

 

[joelef]

Seminoles are supposedly alright since a few seminole tribes gave their okay, don't think the same thing happened with the Sioux up in North Dakota. People have tried to make an issue of the Blackhawks a few times, but Black Hawk was a chief of the Sauk, so I think they're fine with a few of Black Hawk's descendants making appearances whenever the media picks up a story. Either way, I'm fairly certain we're close to the pendulum swinging back toward equilibrium on this issue in the coming years.

All that to say, they shouldn't pick Totems due to it kind of stinking as a name, but if you can also claim a win against cultural appropriation while not selecting the name you might as well do that too.

so they should cater to whiney crybabies?

 

[BattleBorn]

so they should cater to whiney crybabies?

I think I said the opposite.

The name stinks, so don't use the name while also taking credit from the "whiney crybabies."

 

[gstommylee]

I think I said the opposite.

The name stinks, so don't use the name while also taking credit from the "whiney crybabies."

That name totems was suppose to be the teams name under the original 74 attempt at expansion in Seattle. But that was 44 years ago.

 

[BattleBorn]

That name totems was suppose to be the teams name under the original 74 attempt at expansion in Seattle. But that was 44 years ago.

That's the same one as the Scouts and the one just prior to the Barons, right?

 

[gstommylee]

That's the same one as the Scouts and the one just prior to the Barons, right?

prior to the barons. KC had a team before NHL attempted to expand to Seattle.

 

[BattleBorn]

prior to the barons. KC had a team before NHL attempted to expand to Seattle.

I was more commenting on the cruddy team names of the era.

 

[rojac]

That's the same one as the Scouts and the one just prior to the Barons, right?

The Barons were a relocation not an expansion.

 

[Mike in MN]

With respect to University of North Dakota, there are about 9 different tribes in North Dakota which are part of the historic "Sioux Nation." Of these, 2 raised objections to the University calling themselves the Fighting Sioux. Concurrently, NCAA policy prohibited use of Native names, unless approval was obtained from the Native Tribes in question.

In spite of efforts of University Athletic Dept, no arrangement was able to be reached between UND and the 2 tribes in question, and thus, to continue in good standing with the NCAA, UND has rebranded itself, the "Fighting Hawks."

It is under the exception above, (Agreement with the local tribes) that Florida State continues to use the Seminoles name. I'm not clear on those details, but the Seminole Nation appears to enjoy its relationship with FSU, and thus, the NCAA allows that nickname on the basis of this logic, "If the tribes like the use of the name, it is not insensitive, racist, or abusive."

Of course, these things exist in the realm of public opinion and public narrative, which affects NCAA policy, and are not in any way 'legal' in the sense of state or federal statutes.

Thus in the case of SeattleNHL using a nickname connected to the Native American Nations, there is no legal precedent. The matter would simply be a question of how the school of public opinion would react. And, it's my personal belief that it wouldn't be worth the risk, especially when the area is perhaps inclined to be sensitive about such things anyway.

Even crazier, I believe those last tribes DID give their permission to keep using the name, but only after the NCAA's deadline - they had to wait until after tribal leadership elections. Hell, the logo was drawn by a tribal student. The difference in outcomes really came down to a Power Conference school vs a (at the time) Division 2 school

 

[cutchemist42]

Its 2018, I would hope we are better at branding and creativity that we dont need to appropriate the culture of the First Nations again. I really hope they dont go with totems.

 

[BattleBorn]

Talking names here, not expansion team names, just names for teams that were created in the period around the time Seattle was trying to get the Totems. Teams then had pretty cruddy names like Scouts, Barons, and potentially Totems at that time.

Take Barons and replace it with Golden Seals if a common method of team acquisition helps the point.

 

[MNNumbers]

Scouts is not very fear some, but at least appropriate for the area.

 

[PCSPounder]

All that to say, they shouldn't pick Totems due to it kind of stinking as a name, but if you can also claim a win against cultural appropriation while not selecting the name you might as well do that too.

It's not a bad point... but how many good names are truly available?

Also, to pick up on a trend on this page of posts... I, like, really fear maple leaves.

(EDIT: Dear Cthulhu, it's going to be Sasquatch, isn't it.)

 

[tony d]

Going to be interesting to see what the team name will be. I'd like Warriors, myself, but I doubt that name would fly.