NHL offers two more salary cap proposals

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wazee

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mackdogs said:
I guess the PA will counter with a soft 47'ish cap with the ability to go over for a couple years.

If the NHLPA comes back with that kind of offer, I will consider it a good step forward. It would be the first hint that they are willing to negotiate.

Schlep Rock said:
Of course they can... the arguement the NHLPA would have to provide is: the owners created their red ink. If they can prove it, of course the courts can!

I would pay to watch that.

NLRB: You say the owners created their red ink?
NHLPA: Yes, sir.
NLRB: How did they do that?
NHLPA: They showed no restraint in bidding for our member’s services.
NLRB (scratching their heads in disbelief): They created their red ink by paying you too much?
NHLPA: Yes, sir. We knew you would see it our way.
 

Hawker14

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will they be naive enough to believe owners' were innocent bystanders ?

blame belongs on both sides to the problems of the league. it's not just the players' fault.
 

guymez

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Russian Fan said:
Too funny : Spending 100$ for millionnaire players ? NOT OK, Spending 60$ for Billionnaire owners is FINE.

Real nice !!!

Go Spend your money :)

Actually to better reflect reality your options should read:
Spending 100$ for Millionaire players and Billionaire owners? NOT OK, Spending 60$ for Billionaire owners and Millionaire players is FINE.
And...yes...it will be nice!
 

Mighty Duck

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gerbilanium said:
Why do you guys think the NLRB will be impartial and unbiased.

Read this article to see that the NLRB has had significant changes since Bill Clinton.

http://www.aflcio.org/aboutunions/voiceatwork/ns01132005.cfm

Recent decisions by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)—now controlled by President George W. Bush’s appointees—also have begun to erode the legal guarantees of private-sector workers to form unions....

In 2004, the Bush-controlled NLRB effectively eliminated the rights of temporary agency workers to win a voice on the job; ruled that graduate employees are not protected by federal labor law; and began to review rules regarding majority sign-up (card-check) procedures, which enable workers to more fairly and quickly indicate whether they want a union.


Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant. The players are fooked. Accept the 37.5 or you will bleed.

The Only thing that will bleed is your pocket, when the owners ask you to pay to watch the scabs. The best hockey will be played in Europe again next year.
 

Hockeyfan02

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guymez said:
Actually to better reflect reality your options should read:
Spending 100$ for Millionaire players and Billionaire owners? NOT OK, Spending 60$ for Billionaire owners and Millionaire players is FINE.
And...yes...it will be nice!

And that will be nice for one to two years with owners lowering prices to bring back fans then once the fans are back prices will be back up.
 

SuperUnknown

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Mighty Duck said:
The Only thing that will bleed is your pocket, when the owners ask you to pay to watch the scabs. The best hockey will be played in Europe again next year.

From what I've seen, AHL games are better than SEL and RSL.
 

Hawker14

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presuming teams' lower prices.

the leafs have already stated they're not lowering prices.

it'll be interesting to see at just what ticket price teams will be able to sell out their buildings for scabs.

it's tough for the AHL to draw with an average ticket price around $ 20, so it'll be interesting to see just how much the brand "NHL" is worth.
 

guymez

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Mighty Duck said:
The Only thing that will bleed is your pocket, when the owners ask you to pay to watch the scabs. The best hockey will be played in Europe again next year.
It's quite clear you haven't watched much European hockey. Its is close to some of the most boring hockey I have ever seen. Granted I have only watched about 15 - 20 games, but that seems like a reasonable sample from which to draw a conclusion.
 

Weary

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PecaFan said:
No, the NHLPA refused to guarantee their own offer would work exactly like the league's requirements.
It's a pretty empty argument considering the league's own offers wouldn't be guaranteed to meet their own 'requirements.' The four triggers offered by the NHL were just a way to put their own offer in place.
 

Hawker14

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guymez said:
It's quite clear you haven't watched much European hockey. Its is close to some of the most boring hockey I have ever seen. Granted I have only watched about 15 - 20 games, but that seems like a reasonable sample from which to draw a conclusion.

agreed, after watching the SEL for even 5 minutes i get very sleepy for some reason !
 

PecaFan

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Weary said:
It's a pretty empty argument considering the league's own offers wouldn't be guaranteed to meet their own 'requirements.' The four triggers offered by the NHL were just a way to put their own offer in place.

What!? Are you trying to say the offers the league put forth were too soft, and wouldn't lower salaries etc?

Gee, guess Goodenow and friends were really stupid not to sign those offers then.
 

Steve L*

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nyrmessier011 said:
If you are currently making more than 2 million than yea it would have the same effect. 49 million was high but it's not like there weren't any teams spending over that, about 1/3 of the league was spending over that weren't they? It wasn't 37 million but it was a huge step considering the players have had a completely free market on payrolls forever.
The whole NHL as a group couldnt afford the cap the NHLPA offered, exactly the same as my employer couldnt afford a £2m cap.
 

davemess

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hawker14 said:
will they be naive enough to believe owners' were innocent bystanders ?

blame belongs on both sides to the problems of the league. it's not just the players' fault.

I agree totally...... both sides have been at fault in the past.


The problem now is that only the Owners are trying to correct those mistakes, the Union wishes to ensure those mistakes continue.
 

Weary

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PecaFan said:
What!? Are you trying to say the offers the league put forth were too soft, and wouldn't lower salaries etc?

Gee, guess Goodenow and friends were really stupid not to sign those offers then.
Nope. What I'm saying is what you call 'requirements' weren't actually requirements.
 

SENSible1*

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Russian Fan said:
Too funny : Spending 100$ for millionnaire players ? NOT OK, Spending 60$ for Billionnaire owners is FINE.

Real nice !!!

Go Spend your money :)

I'll gladly spend my money to ensure the owners win this battle with the PA.

No better way to ensure the long-term health of the league and Senators than to help bring the PA under control.
 

Hawker14

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Scugs said:
When and where? I missed that one, if it actually happened....

yes, peddie stated that they wouldn't lower prices at the leafs' season-cancellation press conference on TSN/Sportsnet.

it's no secret. unless i was the only one who watched the Cdn teams' press conferences.

i found it kind of funny however that he said one reason they wouldn't lower prices was because of possible revenue sharing, lol. somehow i don't think that'll happen.
 

Hawker14

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Thunderstruck said:
I'll gladly spend my money to ensure the owners win this battle with the PA.

No better way to ensure the long-term health of the league and Senators than to help bring the PA under control.

bring the PA under control ? they're not the ones who signed the checks. name the players who are out of control ?
 

mooseOAK*

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hawker14 said:
bring the PA under control ? they're not the ones who signed the checks. name the players who are out of control ?
The NHLPA sets the price of the players even if they don't sign the checks.
 

Hawker14

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mooseOAK said:
The NHLPA sets the price of the players even if they don't sign the checks.

no, what owners were willing to pay is what set the salaries for UFA's.

in the arbitration process, both sides presented their sides, and an arbitrator decided the salary.

jacobs, wirtz, snyder and dolan destroyed the rookie cap/RFA compensation system.

why blame the players for owner's who destroyed their gains in the '95 CBA
 

Mess

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mooseOAK said:
The NHLPA sets the price of the players even if they don't sign the checks.
A player can ask for any amount he wants ... that does not set the price .. The GM could politely say NO THANK YOU ..your price is too high ... Any player under 31 (UFA) currently has very little option other then hold out and not play or (Arbitration if permitted) ..

The minute the Team accepts the offer from the player and signs off and both sides agree on a valid contract Price is set .. This is a 2 way street and the TEAM has all the control and power...

Too HIGH a Price is set by a POOR GM overpaying .. not a player asking for too much ..
 

mooseOAK*

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hawker14 said:
no, what owners were willing to pay is what set the salaries for UFA's.

in the arbitration process, both sides presented their sides, and an arbitrator decided the salary.

jacobs, wirtz, snyder and dolan destroyed the rookie cap/RFA compensation system.

why blame the players for owner's who destroyed their gains in the '95 CBA
It has been reported in different places and not denied by the NHLPA that the union puts players into certain salary categories. So, if a team wants a 3/4 defenceman, every agent that represents such a player is going to give him the same salary demands. The team is left with the choice of paying the price or doing nothing to improve his team. As a fan of the team that needs that player what would you choose that they do?

Look around the league and you will see players at similar ages with similar past stats are paid almost the same. Do you think that this happens by accident?

That is precisely why the league needs a cap because it is perfectly legal for the union to set their prices but illegal collusion for the owners to do the same thing.
 

copperandblue

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The Messenger said:
A player can ask for any amount he wants ... that does not set the price .. The GM could politely say NO THANK YOU ..your price is too high ... Any player under 31 (UFA) currently has very little option other then hold out and not play or (Arbitration if permitted) ..


Yeah things are so simple when talking in theoretics.
 

Hawker14

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mooseOAK said:
It has been reported in different places and not denied by the NHLPA that the union puts players into certain salary categories. So, if a team wants a 3/4 defenceman, every agent that represents such a player is going to give him the same salary demands. The team is left with the choice of paying the price or doing nothing to improve his team. As a fan of the team that needs that player what would you choose that they do?

Look around the league and you will see players at similar ages with similar past stats are paid almost the same. Do you think that this happens by accident?

That is precisely why the league needs a cap because it is perfectly legal for the union to set their prices but illegal collusion for the owners to do the same thing.

the league has also admitted using similar software available to all GM's/teams. this is nothing new. it works for both sides. it's not like player salaries are a secret.
 

kolanos

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gc2005 said:
But if the league does recover in a hurry and hits $3 Billion in revenues, that cap will still only be $37M. Huge profits for all.
Wow, what a rational person you are! :shakehead

Lets say the NHL does reach $3bn revenues in 1-3 years, 55% linkage gives the players a $55M cap. A $17.5MM difference from the current hard cap on the table -- yet the players favor a hard cap?

Further proof that the players' delusional paranoia is not only hurting themselves, but everyone else along with it.
 
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