News Article: NHL Network Top 20 Centers (4: Matthews, 10: Tavares)

[Mess]

McDavid is not #1. He is the most overrated player ever..

For the second straight year, McDavid tops the list of best centers, and for good reason.

The 21-year-old led the NHL in scoring the past two seasons, winning the Art Ross Trophy with 108 points (41 goals, 67 assists) in 2017-18 and 100 points (30 goals, 70 assists) in 2016-17. The back-to-back winner of the Ted Lindsay Award as most outstanding player as voted by the NHL Players' Association.

 

[thewave]

Matthews stats do not put him at #4OA among centres. He hasn't broken 70 points yet nor 30 assists in a single season.

So this list is projecting him based on potential, and heavily weighted on his goal scoring particularly at ES 5v5.

Problem is they aren't projecting him. He is not #4. Bergeron Kopitar for instance... Just last season talk was, is he the best all around C in the league but goals makes a hockey player to people here I suppose.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

For people who still can’t understand why they have Matthews at 4 and not MacKinnon, Eichel, Bergeron, Kopitar is the fact that he avearages 17 mins per game and not even remotely close to what they are playing. Give Matthews 2+ mins every night and he will be scoring at least 5 more points if not more than 5.

Remember this list is about the talent level not the PPG ratings, you could go find PPG rankings on the NHL.com anytime you want or even google it.

 

[LeafFever]

Matthews stats do not put him at #4OA among centres. He hasn't broken 70 points yet nor 30 assists in a single season.

So this list is projecting him based on potential, and heavily weighted on his goal scoring particularly at ES 5v5.

I was referring to McDavid in that post.

Matthews gets lousy TOI, worse than virtually every other centre on the list. That has to be taken into consideration. It's not based on top scorers anyways. I also hate the "Hasn't hit 70 yet" posts, if he got 1 more point would you view him differently?
no 70 points or 30 assists, but he did get 40 goals as a rookie, and was on pace for 45 last season. He also is absolutely elite in 5 on 5 stats.

 

[Sypher04]

Matthews is too high I’d say. But there’s nothing wrong with dropping him a few spots until he really unloads a dominant season.

That could very well be this season, but in ranking the position right now, i see a problem putting him over guys like Kopitar and Scheifele for example.

He's clearly better than Scheifele so I don't see why.

 

[Mess]

Problem is they aren't projecting him. He is not #4. Bergeron Kopitar for instance... Just last season talk was, is he the best all around C in the league but goals makes a hockey player to people here I suppose.

Matthews has the potential to be a TOP 5 centre in the league, and for many years to come and a TOP 10 player in the league based on talent.

Fairly soon, perhaps as soon as this next season Matthews might prove based on performance regular season and playoffs that he deserves his ranking on merit.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Problem is they aren't projecting him. He is not #4. Bergeron Kopitar for instance... Just last season talk was, is he the best all around C in the league but goals makes a hockey player to people here I suppose.

Oh yeah? He was +25 and I know +/- isn’t much of worth but that’s a huge +/- ratio when you have only played 62 games. Go tell someone else how he is not a better overall player. Offense is just as important as defense, at least he is not in the category of McDavids and Eichels in that regards.

 

[LeafFever]

Our coach artificially brings-down our players' stats. No other coach does that. Marner wasn't even a full season top 6 player and he got 69 points.

 

[Notsince67]

10-15 for Matthews would be reasonable.

Way too humble. If I was picking a team, I would definitely be looking at Matthews as a top 7

 

[Sypher04]

Problem is they aren't projecting him. He is not #4. Bergeron Kopitar for instance... Just last season talk was, is he the best all around C in the league but goals makes a hockey player to people here I suppose.

It's a projection for the upcoming season.

 

[zeke]

Matthews has the potential to be a TOP 5 centre in the league, and for many years to come and a TOP 10 player in the league based on talent.

Fairly soon, perhaps as soon as this next season Matthews might prove based on performance regular season and playoffs that he deserves his ranking on merit.

Matthews is a top-5 center by performance, merit, advanced stats, and by general consensus eye tests.

Your hockey watching ability seems to be failing you.

 

[zeke]

What is the xgf stat?

the xgf stat i am using their is Expected Goals For Percentage Relative to Team.

so they take all shots directed towards each net, adjust for shot quality, see how many a player is on the ice for compared to against, and then compare that to how his teammates fare.

 

[Liminality]

Matthews is a top-5 center by performance, merit, advanced stats, and by general consensus eye tests.

Your hockey watching ability seems to be failing you.

I think it's scary that he hasn't reached his full potential either. Are Matthews defensive stats alright? I'm sure those might be the ones which improve the most.

 

[Peiskos]

I think Matthews is 3-4 spots too high. I'd have him behind MacKinnon, Kopitar and Bergeron. Some other guys are too high as well, but they obviously don't get the same attention. I don't think Seguin is a top 10 centre with this many talented guys but that seems to be the consensus. 4-15 or so are relatively close, it's really not worth freaking out over.

I can see the fascination with Bergeron but is this a historical poll, a current poll or a future poll? Bergeron is 33 years old and I think its very wise to remember that. Tavares is a whole 6 years younger than him, Matthews is a staggering 13 years younger than him. In today's NHL youth is valued more than ever. Both Tavares-Matthews are worth more than Bergeron.

 

[Morgs]

Such an embarassing list overall, including Matthews about 5 spots too high.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think it's scary that he hasn't reached his full potential either. Are Matthews defensive stats alright? I'm sure those might be the ones which improve the most.

his defensive stats like shot attempts against and expected goals against are pretty bad, but his individual defensive stats like stick lifts, puck recoveries, and shot/pass blocks are pretty good. I think the team brings him down to a certain extent.

Overall he's a beast along the boards and on the backcheck, but I'd still like to see some better defensive metrics from him. I think he might be a bit overrated defensively, but underrated offensively

 

[IPS]

Matthews is a top-5 center by performance, merit, advanced stats, and by general consensus eye tests.

Your hockey watching ability seems to be failing you.

I don't think it's so much his hockey watching ability failing him as much as it is him admitting Babcock's usage/minutes of Matthews being completely absurd.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

My first reaction to reading the thread title was: "well this will make the main board, and that special portion of the Leafs fanbase, upset for reasons that cannot quantify....just like last year."

 

[Morgs]

My top-20 (22) as of today (all based on the last two years only).

Although it might not be popular, I rate it based on PPG, P60, PPP60, rel.CF%, rel.xGF%, comp, and zone starts. I come up with one "WAR"-like number to take it into account, while also using personal opinion of their situations as well as other fun things. Enjoy:

1. McDavid - Elite, all around, best player in hockey not close. Medium zone starts, and tough comp.
-
2. Crosby - Normally would be the best player, but McDavid is literally a god. Only weakness is his easy af zone starts.
-
3. Backstrom - Underrated star. Sterling underlying stats, hard comp, and puts up points as well as the rest of them.
4. Bergeron - Best defensive forward in the NHL that is also producing.
5. Malkin - superstar at scoring, meh underlying stats, and arguably the easiest comp/zone starts of any player on the list.
-
6. Barkov - Some of the best underlying stats, great at scoring (/60's took a hit because he plays soooo many minutes), medium comp, hard zone starts.
7. Tavares - Excellent scorer (worse than Matthews), great underlying stats, but easy AF comp/zone starts.
8. Getzlaf - 5v5 scoring for days, above average on the PP, great underlying stats, easyish comp, but medium zone starts.
9. Matthews - One of the best scorers on the list/60, both 5v5 (5th) and PP (7th). decent (not great) underlying stats, relatively easy comp/zone starts but not charmin soft.
10. Scheifele - Great 5v5 scorer, meh PP scorer. Decent rel.CF%, good rel.xGF%, and above average comp & zone starts.
11. MacKinnon - Great 5v5, very good PP, and great underlying stats. Tough comp/zone starts. Guy probably should be in the tier above, or at least higher, but I need to see him do 2 seasons first.
-
12. Kopitar - Same as MacK, terrible 2 seasons ago, great this past season. Basically Barkov level last year, and not on this list 2 years ago.
13. Stamkos - Stats say 3rd best /60 5v5 scorer, and best /60 PP scorer. decent underlying stats, and charmin soft comp/ZS. Probably is in tier above, but I think he's riding Kuch's coattails.
14. Eichel - Matthews, except scores much less 5v5, and a little less on the PP.
15. Barzal - Toughest placement for me. Guy's season last year had him ranked #2 on my "model". He's essentially McDavid, with better underlying stats, but much easier comp. I need to see a 2nd year of his without Tavares and him getting real minutes.
16. Kuznetsov - Malkin-lite. Great at scoring (not as good as Malkin), bad underlying stats, and arguably the easiest comp/zone starts of anyone on the list.
17. Couturier - Arguably the best defensive forward in the NHL, that found out he can score. If he does what he did last season again, he's a top-10 C very easily.
18. Seguin - Weak 5v5 numbers, great on the PP, underwhelming underlying stats, tough comp/zone starts.
-
19. Kadri - Honestly, he should probably be higher. Same P60 (5v5) as Tavares, only behind Stamkos, Malkin, Backstrom, Seguin, Crosby at PPP60. meh underlying stats, but faces the hardest comp/zone starts of anyone on this list.
20. O'Reilly - Bad 5v5 scorer, above average PP scorer. Some of the best underlying numbers and toughest comp. Aka great defensively, good offensively.
21. Johansen - Not the greatest scorer 5v5 or the PP. Great underlying numbers, and tough comp/zone starts.
22. Trochek - He really should be higher, but has only had one season. He also plays ridiculous minutes like Barkov, so it hurts his /60. Good underlying stats, decent comp, and hard zone starts. I expect him to move up.
-
HM: Toews, Staal, Draisaitl, Carter, Point, Zibby, Duchene, Couture, Monahan

 

[Sypher04]

Such an embarassing list overall, including Matthews about 5 spots too high.

Id agree that he is a bit high but 8 centers definitively better than him? I dunno. More established perhaps

 

[Morgs]

Id agree that he is a bit high but 8 centers definitively better than him? I dunno. More established perhaps

1 post up gives you my list.

 

[Sypher04]

My top-20 (22) as of today (all based on the last two years only).

Although it might not be popular, I rate it based on PPG, P60, PPP60, rel.CF%, rel.xGF%, comp, and zone starts. I come up with one "WAR"-like number to take it into account, while also using personal opinion of their situations as well as other fun things. Enjoy:

1. McDavid - Elite, all around, best player in hockey not close. Medium zone starts, and tough comp.
-
2. Crosby - Normally would be the best player, but McDavid is literally a god. Only weakness is his easy af zone starts.
-
3. Backstrom - Underrated star. Sterling underlying stats, hard comp, and puts up points as well as the rest of them.
4. Bergeron - Best defensive forward in the NHL that is also producing.
5. Malkin - superstar at scoring, meh underlying stats, and arguably the easiest comp/zone starts of any player on the list.
-
6. Barkov - Some of the best underlying stats, great at scoring (/60's took a hit because he plays soooo many minutes), medium comp, hard zone starts.
7. Tavares - Excellent scorer (worse than Matthews), great underlying stats, but easy AF comp/zone starts.
8. Getzlaf - 5v5 scoring for days, above average on the PP, great underlying stats, easyish comp, but medium zone starts.
9. Matthews - One of the best scorers on the list/60, both 5v5 (5th) and PP (7th). decent (not great) underlying stats, relatively easy comp/zone starts but not charmin soft.
10. Scheifele - Great 5v5 scorer, meh PP scorer. Decent rel.CF%, good rel.xGF%, and above average comp & zone starts.
11. MacKinnon - Great 5v5, very good PP, and great underlying stats. Tough comp/zone starts. Guy probably should be in the tier above, or at least higher, but I need to see him do 2 seasons first.
-
12. Kopitar - Same as MacK, terrible 2 seasons ago, great this past season. Basically Barkov level last year, and not on this list 2 years ago.
13. Stamkos - Stats say 3rd best /60 5v5 scorer, and best /60 PP scorer. decent underlying stats, and charmin soft comp/ZS. Probably is in tier above, but I think he's riding Kuch's coattails.
14. Eichel - Matthews, except scores much less 5v5, and a little less on the PP.
15. Barzal - Toughest placement for me. Guy's season last year had him ranked #2 on my "model". He's essentially McDavid, with better underlying stats, but much easier comp. I need to see a 2nd year of his without Tavares and him getting real minutes.
16. Kuznetsov - Malkin-lite. Great at scoring (not as good as Malkin), bad underlying stats, and arguably the easiest comp/zone starts of anyone on the list.
17. Couturier - Arguably the best defensive forward in the NHL, that found out he can score. If he does what he did last season again, he's a top-10 C very easily.
18. Seguin - Weak 5v5 numbers, great on the PP, underwhelming underlying stats, tough comp/zone starts.
-
19. Kadri - Honestly, he should probably be higher. Same P60 (5v5) as Tavares, only behind Stamkos, Malkin, Backstrom, Seguin, Crosby at PPP60. meh underlying stats, but faces the hardest comp/zone starts of anyone on this list.
20. O'Reilly - Bad 5v5 scorer, above average PP scorer. Some of the best underlying numbers and toughest comp. Aka great defensively, good offensively.
21. Johansen - Not the greatest scorer 5v5 or the PP. Great underlying numbers, and tough comp/zone starts.
22. Trochek - He really should be higher, but has only had one season. He also plays ridiculous minutes like Barkov, so it hurts his /60. Good underlying stats, decent comp, and hard zone starts. I expect him to move up.
-
HM: Toews, Staal, Draisaitl, Carter, Point, Zibby, Duchene, Couture, Monahan

Personally I'd have mostly the same players top 10, just ordered differently.

I think backstrom, Bergeron and getzlaf are clearly too high

I'd have Matthews a couple spots up from yours.

 

[araisarena]

Took a little time to see how I would rank them

Disclaimer: I think Eichel, Barkov and Kuznetsov find themselves in the top 5-10 sooner rather than later. I think you can make an argument for any of Seguin/Tavares/Scheifele to be interchangable. Matthews to me eventually eclipses Bergeron and Kopitar but Kopitar was outstanding last year, and Bergeron's obvious and huge impact means more than the slight offensive advantages that Matthews/Seguin/Tavares/Scheifele bring as of today IMO.

1. McDavid
2. Crosby
3. Malkin
4. MacKinnon
5. Kopitar
6. Bergeron
7. Matthews
8. Seguin
9. Tavares
10. Scheifele
11. Barkov
12. Kuznetsov
13. Backstrom
14. Stamkos
15. Eichel
16. Barzal
17. Getzlaf
18. Couturier
19. Draisaitl
20. Point

 

[Its not your fault]

Think Kessel will ever come back to play here again?

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Where’s Drouin ?