Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by TeddyBare, Apr 6, 2021.
It's not about value, it's about whether they'd do it... they wouldn't
If Dahlin were on the Devils instead and the Devils offered all three of those guys for Eichel, I don't know if I'd do it.
they should really just lock this up, it's silly
They haven't been underwhelming? No 1st overall pick has produced at a worse rate than Hughes during their first two seasons... Ever?
They've gone from losing with old broken down players with inflated deals and some bad anchor contracts to losing with young players that might actually improve. The little success NJ has had this year has been due to the young players not the veterans. Again, it's great when people who hate a team and only show up to crap on it suddenly become experts on that team that they don't follow and don't like.
Yah they would, the fact that the only ones saying they wouldn't are devils fans, while the rest of us are saying the Sabres get bent over, paints a pretty clear picture.
I don't hate the Devils, I couldn't care less about them. Again just having young players doesnt mean a whole lot when none look like star players. The Wings have some good young players but until the potential stars arrive and produce it means nothing and the rebuild is going noowhere. Devils are in the same boat.
So a bunch of fans that dislike the NJ team and are going on and on about things as if they exist in a vacuum and not in reality proves anything in the real world? At the end of the day, it would come down to who is in charge. Lamoriello would have done it. Shero would have done it in my view. It's hard to say if Fitzgerald would do it. He's been vocal about the build through the draft and not signing big contracts to outside guys. I'm sure he'd want to do it, but what happens when he's about to pull the trigger and Eichel's agent calls him and asks what Fitzgerald's plans are to make the playoffs next season? Fitzgerald looks at the roster and sees he'll have a first line center and two second line wingers and a bunch of bottom six guys. So now Fitzgerald has to abandon ship and start throwing around UFA contracts that go against what the team is trying to do and probably end up backfiring if history is any teacher? Maybe. It's not unrealistic to say that's exactly what they'd do, but it's not unrealistic of fans who follow the team to say that acquiring a superstar from a bad team who is sick of losing is at the end just spinning the wheels for the franchise if the base isn't in place to support that star player. Let's not forget NJ has lived this scenario already.
What realisticly would NJ have to add to make it work ? Their 1st in 2021 + Holtz ?
Holtz + 2021 1st (NJ's 2021 1st is trending up in value after their Palmieri trade) + Nico + Jack Hughes for Eichel + Dahlin.
Buffalo then drafts Luke Hughes and Matthews Beniers.
Buffalo's top 7 forwards would become: Nico, Hughes, Cozens, Beniers, Oolofson, Holtz & Reinhart.
Thats alot of Centers, someone would have to move to the wing.
Losing Dahlin hurts but gaining Luke Hughes offsets that a little.
Of course. And that's why just trading for Eichel right now and figuring it out later is premature. In two years if NJ can hit on a few more guys of course they do this. The problem is that right now they just don't have enough complementary players to be good enough that Eichel wants to stay. Again, NJ has gone through this exact scenario in the past few years. It cost the GM his job and set the team back to some extent. Why go through that again? It's like the guy making $50,000 buying a big old mansion because it's a deal. He can't afford the repair bills, he can't afford the electricity, the gas bill, or even pay to have the bigger yard mowed. He's buying that house just to flip it. He can't live in it. Same thing here. Eichel probably gives it a year, but NJ can't support Eichel yet.
Nothing! We are saying NO as is. We are adding nothing. We are not doing this dumb gimmick trade. Close this up it’s awful and has turned into bashing. NJ will gladly keep their players and same for Buffalo.
Once again, why would Eichel want to leave in two years but Hischier wouldn't if they're still losing? By that time Hischier would have been in the league pretty much just as long as Eichel is now looking for a trade. Good players want to win, this isn't exclusive to Eichel. The chances Eichel would ask for a trade one season after asking for another one is about zero.
Slight corrrction to the bolded: it was the Sabres GM Tim Murray that was pissed. And notice he was let go after Eichel’s first year?
Granted Terry might have been pissed too. But that never came out if he was.
I think Eichel would want to leave NJ before he got off the plane. If NJ isn't winning in another two or three years Hischier will get frustrated. Hughes not much longer after that. There's also an issue of attachment. Eichel wants it to work in Buffalo. He would have no investment in NJ. Hischier and Hughes want it to work in NJ and will put up with more than they would elsewhere. It's like married couples that try to work it out versus dating couples who try to work it out. Who will make more of an effort? These are people and have to be evaluated on that level, not just who is better. Some GMs wouldn't care. I think Lamoriello would make the trade and somehow he'd make it work. I think Shero would make the trade and botch it. Remember, NJ already made this trade. How'd that turn out? I just don't see NJ fans in a rush to repeat it.
Has anyone expressed hatred towards the devils? I haven't seen anything other then neutral fans saying that the value is off here, I myself have no issue with the Devils, so I'm not really sure where this dislike you speak of exists?
I'm not going back to pick out individual posts but plenty of dismissive comments make it sound like folks just dumping on NJ as a bad team with bad players. That's not a ringing endorsement for fair and balanced evaluation. Again, any NJ fans saying Eichel isn't the clear best player in the trade would be wrong, but fans of other teams that don't know anything about the NJ team and don't remember that NJ lived this scenario just a few years ago in some ways twice, and both times it blew up on them, are also wrong.
I don’t like the Devils this year only because they’re in the same division. And the fact that they’ve never come out with a black third jersey. But other than that, they never cross my mind.
Seems more like honest player evaluations to me, neither(Hischier and Hughes) have lived up to their expectations, can that really be argued?
I don't know if your talking about Subban and Gusev here, but to even begin to compare those two players to Eichel and Dahlin is absolutely ludicrous.
First: I agree that Eichel is easily the best player of the four. He's a legit superstar if he's playing in a big market. He's a wonderful player and I'd love him in NJ. Again, if a NJ fan says the value in the trade favors Nj right now they are just being defensive. Dahlin is young and inconsistent and Hughes hasn't hit his stride yet so we can see in two years what might happen but for now of course NJ "wins" the trade, but some NJ fans are suggesting it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
Second: NJ fans had to contend with Lamoriello signing dinosaur after dinosaur at the end of his term so they saw the team refuse to try to rebuild or retool for a number of years. Sure they may have hung around the fringes of playoffs but the fanbase knew the team was circling the drain. So NJ fans saw trying to UFA and veteran stopgap your way to relevance and it didn't work. Then, Shero takes over. He promises a rebuild with patience. My guess is that is what he wanted. Then, Hall falls in his lap. The trade was one for one. I'm sure Edmonton fans still bristle when they hear that. That said, Hall only talked about winning and playing big games from the minute he got to NJ. So what does Shero do? He quickly tries to build a team around Hall. He got lucky that he got Hischier. He might have gotten Patrick. But he also made a trade with the Rangers which angered the NJ faithful to get a depth rental for a bottom of the playoffs team. That was poor asset management to cater to Hall. So at least NJ makes the playoffs year one. But then, Schneider falls apart in net as he ages. Nj is stuck with his anchor contract. Then, Shero makes deals for guys like Gusev and Subban and Mueller and Johansson, giving out second round picks like they are going out of style and none of the trades work. The team still stinks. Meanwhile, the draft picks weren't as plentiful as they should have been because Shero traded many away and the ones they made were meh (Zacha's first few years or McLeod) or just took longer to work out (Blackwood Smith and depth guys like Sharangovich and Maltsev and Bastian). So, the team tried to cater to Hall and to some extent took away from trying to find an extra top six guy or top four defender or starting goalie on what should have been a rebuilding team. And the end result? Hall won't sign an extension in NJ and he gets traded and the GM loses his job.
TLDR: NJ has had two instances of trying to build a relevant team without a good support structure of young players in place and both times it flopped. You have to allow for NJ fans to say that trading for Eichel is like trading for Hall again. Winning the trade doesn't necessarily make the team better.
Allow me to demonstrate for your knowledge.
You're just like all the other Devils fans over there in NJ, overrating their players, because they're not as good as Eichel/Dahlin.
When did NJ give up two young players for two young and better stars signed long term before?
You really try to divorce things from context and reality don't you? Note my use of "in some ways" and if you actually care, see my explanation in the post two above yours.
Dahlin has averaged 40 points a season, (including 40 as an 18 year old blueliner, which is absolutely unheard of ) he also had 40 points in 51 games last year which prorated would have been 78 points as a 19 year old. Dude is all kinds of talented at least offensively, at such a young age. I'd hardly call that inconsistent. His problem seems to be in his own end, which given his age can absolutely improve.
Hughes has been nothing but underwhelming since coming in (a small sample size from this year does not negate that)
The two players are not comparable in the least.
No I don't actually, Hall was and is a locker room cancer, we heard a lot about this when he was with Edmonton, he also is a winger (less important position), and by all accounts had none of the intangibles that Eichel has.
No thanks. Eichel and Dahlin are worth so much more than Hughes and Hischier. Sorry. To me it's not even close.
Please read what I’ve already said about Devils on the upswing Buffalo remaining in limbo. Thanks for your terrific contributions to this convo
Separate names with a comma.