NHL move to Winnipeg 'a step back'

[macavoy]

I was going to say: 2 Billion over 10 years, 200 Million a year, the most the NHL has EVER gotten, isn't exactly peanuts.

What is really interesting is that the NHL prevented a USA team from moving until a $2 BILLION dollar deal was signed, then boom, the dominos fall and there is now a magical MAKE IT SEVEN team in Canada.

$2 BILLION isn't exactly chump change. The NHL owners and Gary Bettmen aren't idiots.

I think there are a lot more hockey fans in Atlanta than there are Thrasher fans. One thing that hurt the team was the difficulty they had winning people over, or holding onto them once they were in the fold.

I agree, the fact that there is a strong ECHL team in Gwinette says a lot about hockey in the area. It has more to do with the arena than anything else.

 

[Duke749]

I think it's a positive and a negative.

It's a negative because you are severly damaging a big chunk of hockey in the south. Screw job much?

It's a positive because you get ASG out of the league and replace them with a very good owner that should be able to turn this franchise in the right direction and has a good chance to come out ahead money wise.

 

[Tekneek]

And yet after many years of analyzing the return of the NHL you believe they haven't considered this? This isn't a case of MH in Phoenix or the clown show that was the prior ownership in Tampa. They do not tweet, they do not show up selling hotdogs at the games, they do not ask the city of Winnipeg to fund the majority of the purchase.

I never said they didn't consider it.

 

[dronald]

I live in the area, and there are plenty of hockey fans here, the Gladiators have great attendance for the ECHL, and the Thrashers attendance was great for an expansion team up until ASG ran the team into the ground, and turned it's back on it's fans. Also minor/rec hockey are big things down here, and have been growing steadily since the Thrashers came. If we had a decent playoff run or two, our attendance would be similar to other southern hockey markets. We never had a chance to grow, do you really expect a team to gain much support in a city when the team doesn't win anything in their entire existence? When the ownership never cared about the hockey team, and intended to sell them after they acquired them, but couldn't because they were in litigation with each other, so they pretended to care about them until they could legally sell them 6 months ago? Give this city, this state a chance, and we can support hockey, but we never got that. And it's disgraceful that the league is letting this happen.

I believe that Hockey can work in Atlanta, and I'm completely against the NHL trying to make it work in Glendale. I think most of us get that the ownership has been just awful in Atlanta and has driven the Thrasher franchise into the ground, but it doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg deserves a team and could do much better with a franchise imo.

To be honest, I'm a bit bitter ever since Hamilton did not get a franchise and I was rooting for Winnipeg to get one from Phoenix ever since. It's too bad that Atlanta must go in order for Winnipeg to get one.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't think that you'll ever get an objective answer about the strength of hockey support in Atlanta from Atlanta fans or people influenced to be "pro-Atlanta" for lack of a better word. It's mostly anecdotal evidence one way or the other, I have myself dealt with quite a few Atlanta-based individuals through the years and none of them ever brought up the Thrashers even though we discussed sports teams like the Braves or Falcons and they were aware of me being a big hockey fan. That doesn't count for much but neither does a group of 30-40 posters on HFBoards obviously.

Of course, Atlanta hockey fans exist, hundreds even thousands of them, but that's not really telling us whether that number is sufficient to maintain a franchise through its low points. Facts seem to suggest a negative answer.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

In terms of media relations...yeah...it is. But then again moving to Edmonton to Houston would be a good thing in that regard, and in reality...come on, we all know Edmonton is a better hockey market than Houston will ever be.

The Thrashers were a non-entity nationally and were barely a blip on the Atlanta radar. This will look bad in the papers for a week to the casual fan and then it will be forgotten.


If True North is able to make a decent team out of this franchise then it's a win. Period. The Thrashers don't have a single playoff win to this point. Losing in the first round annually would be a gigantic step forward for this franchise. Blame whoever you want for this issue (true answer: ownership), but the Thrashers have been a non-entity their entire existence on the national playing field. Losing them isn't like the NBA losing the Sonics to Oklahoma City...and I don't say this as a slight to Thrashers fans, just their ownership. If Atlanta had what Carolina or Tampa has had in the past 8 or so years then we wouldn't be talking about the Thrashers moving, and if they had what a consistently competitive team has had they'd be a success story. I won't hide that I have fault with the league putting a team in Atlanta, but I also think the city didn't get a fair shake towards growing the team into something worth supporting, and Atlanta could damn well be in the Carolina, Tampa, or Nashville ranks as a positive towards southern expansion. I will say no such kind words to Phoenix.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

Nah, man. It isn't on the level of NASCAR, or SEC football, but there are enough hockey fans to support an NHL team. This goes back to the days before HFBoards even existed. A large number of them were jacked into the team when they first started up, but were gradually turned off by the way the team conducted business. Just look at the quotes from Dan Bouchard recently, he has lived down here for over 30 years. Blaming fans, ticket sales, etc, is a massive over-simplification of what went on here.

See this is the thing though. Sure you had a crappy owner and a lot of folks are comparing your situation to the Blackhawks ownership situation where they also had a bad owner and fans were staying away. However, the difference is the Blackhawks have been around forever so fans staying away was no big deal because the team was never going to move someplace else.

In the Thrashers situation staying away was probably the worst thing you could do considering that you're not a mature hockey market and don't have the kind of roots that the Blackhawks have so moving the team is no big deal. If you wanted to show that you dislike management show up to games and protest. ***** about it on the internet, call in on radio shows, etc. But don't just not show up because it makes it look like you don't care. I mean if you look at your guys' attendance you're pretty much in the bottom third every year since your existence so the saying of "well we have bad owners people will show up once they're gone" doesn't work because you have no history to back this up. This is why you don't have local ownership groups fighting over who gets the team because really this isn't the best investment speaking from a historical point.

 

[Tekneek]

If you cannot get unbiased accounts from locals, you're damn sure not going to get them from out-of-towners who have even less anecdotal evidence to present.

 

[saillias]

Anyone who doesn't think pulling a hockey team out of a city that has 5.5 million people, up and coming junion hockey teams that at least quadrupled in the short time it was here, and was slowly changing the perception of people, needs to get their heads checked.

Stop making up crap and then portraying it as some unchallengeable theory. Everyone in Atlanta has been repeating on these boards for weeks that people have been turned off by the organization for very specific & simple reasons. The team has no direction and never really has, the ownership group doesn't really want to succeed, tells fans to "deal with it," and promotes Don Waddell. What slow perception of people are you referring to, the 40% of season ticket holders who did not renew after 07-08 maybe?

 

[Tekneek]

I mean if you look at your guys' attendance you're pretty much in the bottom third every year since your existence so the saying of "well we have bad owners people will show up once they're gone" doesn't work because you have no history to back this up.

They were 11th in the league their first season. Also, in most seasons, they have outdrawn one or more solid teams that nobody ever dare question the fanbases of. You may want to look at the data in a vacuum, because it fits the narrative you wish to tell, and maybe the same is true for me, but the real story may come from comparing each year to the teams in the league. Looking at which teams they had better numbers than, rather than the ranking.

 

[rojac]

I think it's a positive and a negative.

It's a negative because you are severly damaging a big chunk of hockey in the south. Screw job much?

It's a positive because you get ASG out of the league and replace them with a very good owner that should be able to turn this franchise in the right direction and has a good chance to come out ahead money wise.

And maybe in 15 or 20 years, the NHL will try Atlanta again. Perhaps Saskatoon can get a team this time when they do.

 

[SuperDave21]

I completely agree. Forgetting the way the Coyotes have been treated by the Canadian/Winnipeg media, I believe that a relocation to Winnipeg is a 1 step forward, and 2 steps back for the game. If Winnipeg and QC got teams via expansion, no problem. The game would grow, and Canadians would be happy. Win-win. However, Winnipeg is receiving a team in the same exact way that they lost their original team, and the reason for their bitterness. Yet, they see no problem with getting the Thrashers. It's the very definition of hypocritical.

I hope that Thrashers fans will follow the team to Winnipeg, and support them as much as possible.

 

[Ashe]

And yet after many years of analyzing the return of the NHL you believe they haven't considered this? This isn't a case of MH in Phoenix or the clown show that was the prior ownership in Tampa. They do not tweet, they do not show up selling hotdogs at the games, they do not ask the city of Winnipeg to fund the majority of the purchase.

But asked for the government to put money to pay for some of the costs...

 

[dkehler]

I completely agree. Forgetting the way the Coyotes have been treated by the Canadian/Winnipeg media, I believe that a relocation to Winnipeg is a 1 step forward, and 2 steps back for the game. If Winnipeg and QC got teams via expansion, no problem. The game would grow, and Canadians would be happy. Win-win. However, Winnipeg is receiving a team in the same exact way that they lost their original team, and the reason for their bitterness. Yet, they see no problem with getting the Thrashers. It's the very definition of hypocritical.

I hope that Thrashers fans will follow the team to Winnipeg, and support them as much as possible.

It's not hypocritical at all. It's saying that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. What's hypocritical is making proclamations from your high horse while you enjoy a team that you got as a result of relocation.

 

[dkehler]

But asked for the government to put money and pay

Hate to tell you, but I think the provincial government was eager to be involved for their own reasons. We don't even know how much money we're talking about yet.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yes, it is. Hockey is now (way) behind cricket - cricket! - which sold rights for one tournament, one year for $2B.

$200M is pocket change in this biz...

I agree with your premise, but cricket is a bad example.

Cricket is the national sport of one of the most populous countries in the World- India. Something big in India > Something big in Canada due to geographical reasons alone.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

They were 11th in the league their first season. Also, in most seasons, they have outdrawn one or more solid teams that nobody ever dare question the fanbases of. You may want to look at the data in a vacuum, because it fits the narrative you wish to tell, and maybe the same is true for me, but the real story may come from comparing each year to the teams in the league. Looking at which teams they had better numbers than, rather than the ranking.

Of course they're going to have a higher attendance than normal their first season, hell I'd hope so since they're brand new and there's a novelty factor. You may have outdrawn the Blackhawks or the Bruins in a couple seasons but the fact is that people know those teams have a strong fanbase and they know it'll be back once those teams stop sucking. There's evidence to back this up as it's happened before to those teams.

Comparing yourself to those teams isn't fair when in reality attendance wise you'd be lumped in with the Coyotes, Predators, Islanders, Panthers. Teams that for the past decade have finished in the bottom third in terms of attendance. There's a reason why a number of teams in the bottom third of the league were either close to moving someplace else or are moving someplace else.

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

I believe Winnipeg will work better this time around, and I also believe that Atlanta would have worked equally if they had almost any other people owning them since the lockout.

Don't tell me that it's a matter of The South and College Sports. Raleigh and Nashville are doing fine now, and they are historically Southern College Sports towns too. The difference is that their NHL owners have been committed to building a competitive team. Atlanta Spirit never cared, and only gave it lip service. They never even met Hossa until they had the emergency get-together late in his final Atlanta season...at a NBA Hawks game!

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

If Winnipeg is a step back, what the hell are Florida and Phoenix? The Oilers, Sens, and Flames all outsell those teams, even when Phoenix is a playoff team.

 

[Inkling]

Yet, they see no problem with getting the Thrashers. It's the very definition of hypocritical.

Speaking of hypocritical, I don't remember seeing any black-armbands being worn at the America West Arena.

They're happy at getting an NHL team, give them a break.

 

[New User Name]

I completely agree. Forgetting the way the Coyotes have been treated by the Canadian/Winnipeg media, I believe that a relocation to Winnipeg is a 1 step forward, and 2 steps back for the game. If Winnipeg and QC got teams via expansion, no problem. The game would grow, and Canadians would be happy. Win-win. However, Winnipeg is receiving a team in the same exact way that they lost their original team, and the reason for their bitterness. Yet, they see no problem with getting the Thrashers. It's the very definition of hypocritical.

I hope that Thrashers fans will follow the team to Winnipeg, and support them as much as possible.

What? I guess if telling truths is being treated badly

Maybe, just maybe....maybe.....put the blame where it lies. Not the typical...it's not our fault, it's someone else.

The rest of your post is the same BS too.

 

[macavoy]

I live in the area, and there are plenty of hockey fans here, the Gladiators have great attendance for the ECHL, and the Thrashers attendance was great for an expansion team up until ASG ran the team into the ground, and turned it's back on it's fans. Also minor/rec hockey are big things down here, and have been growing steadily since the Thrashers came. I

When the ownership never cared about the hockey team, and intended to sell them after they acquired them, but couldn't because they were in litigation with each other, so they pretended to care about them until they could legally sell them 6 months ago?

Give this city, this state a chance, and we can support hockey, but we never got that. And it's disgraceful that the league is letting this happen.

I agree with you about hockey in Atlanta. I know there are hockey families from the GTA that invest in minor hockey / hockey schools / sports stores that sell hockey goods in Atlanta but not in Phoenix, Florida, LA, etc.... there is actually grassroots support for hockey in Atlanta.

But its not the NHL's fault. They can't make a team happen there without an arena. Its entirely ASG's fault that they viewed concerts as more money than NHL. Its not the NHL's fault.

Just because Glendale values the NHL, doesn't mean the NHL abandoned Atlanta. The NHL wasn't given a choice in the matter, an NHL can't survive without an arena lease. Look at NYI, they pissed away probably a hundred million dollars to get a "favourable" arena lease. A lease is that important.

 

[LeftCoast]

Anytime a franchise relocates it's a step back.

It's a step back from Atlanta - whose fans lose an NHL team due to inept management.

It's a step back for the league, because expansion into Atlanta was part of a long term growth strategy. One of the cornerstones of that strategy has now failed. But, IF TNSE can finance the inevitable losses in the first year or so, set the franchise on stable financial footing, it is a step forward for the league.

It's a step forward for Winnipeg and Canadian hockey fans. A seventh team in Canada is long overdue. Long term, I'm not convinced that Winnipeg is the best un-served Canadian market, but it's the only market in the US or Canada that the Thrashers can move to and play on October 1.

Winnipeg fans should empathize with Atlanta fans because they know more than anyone else what it feels like to lose your team.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I agree with your premise, but cricket is a bad example.

Cricket is the national sport of one of the most populous countries in the World- India. Something big in India > Something big in Canada due to geographical reasons alone.

Indeed. Cricket is only big in about 5 or so countries in the entire world...but it just so happens that those countries combine to double both Americas (as continents) combined, and the extreme majority of that lays with one country. The western hemisphere has roughly 75% of the population of India alone.

 

[Street Hawk]

Time Warner

It only matters because of the "television market"
It was the only reason why a team was in Atlanta.

Kind of like how Anaheim and Florida got their team's, because of their owner, Ted Turner and Time Warner. Disney with the Ducks and Blockbuster with the Panthers.

For hockey to work in non-traditional hockey markets, the owners of the team must love hockey. Can't just be part of the package of owning an NBA team. Those owners generally treat the NBA team better. The NHL team is just part of the package.