NHL investigating Coyotes over physical testing of CHL players
- Thread starter The Feckless Puck
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Pfft. Welcome to Phoenix. And my ignore list. Now gtfo.
Imaravencawcaw
Registered User
- Jul 19, 2018
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I too would like some of the drugs you're using. Nobody is getting fired for asking kids to show up in shorts and a t-shirt. They aren't losing a 1st round pick for
asking kids to show up in shorts and a t-shirt, the only possible punishment is a 250K fine per incident.
If I'm Alex Meruelo and Uncle Gary comes at me asking for $5 million in fines for such a vaguely worded rule I'm summoning all my lawyers and we're having an independent arbitrator determine if oogling 18 year olds counts as "fitness testing".
I wonder if the league would spare us punishment for cheating if Meruelo said "Hey....I didn't know these guys were doing this. It was before my purchase and I feel it's extremely unethical and am going to fire the GM, the coach, all the assistants and the scouts".
Then hire Gallant or Laviolette to coach and let them pick the new GM.
Or is this so obvious and mentioned already in this thread a hundred times?
Then hire Gallant or Laviolette to coach and let them pick the new GM.
Or is this so obvious and mentioned already in this thread a hundred times?
Why is everyone assuming guilt and that Chayka voluntarily stepped on a landmine? That the league will be punitive and make an example of the Coyotes?
Let the coach pick the GM? Can I have what you are smoking?
It's far, far more likely that the FO took a look at the language and saw a grey area where they could push things, other teams got mad they didn't think of it, and because Chayka is not an old boy they called bullshit. Now the league will huff and puff but they can't just automatically convict the FO of wrongdoing if the language is not crystal clear. Lawyers will lawyer and agree that a formal warning will suffice and the language will be rewritten so as to cover up the grey area. The path of least resistance.
Imaravencawcaw
Registered User
- Jul 19, 2018
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Unless it comes out that the Coyotes bag skated 20 prospects here's what's going to happen with this complete non-story:
1) Coyotes get a firm warning not to exploit gray areas in the future and violating the spirit of the rule.
2) The language is changed to be more specific about what can and cannot be done with prospects pre- and post-combine.
3) 75% of the Canadian population gets mad that the Coyotes aren't forced to relocate to Quebec for this travesty.
1) Coyotes get a firm warning not to exploit gray areas in the future and violating the spirit of the rule.
2) The language is changed to be more specific about what can and cannot be done with prospects pre- and post-combine.
3) 75% of the Canadian population gets mad that the Coyotes aren't forced to relocate to Quebec for this travesty.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Brief bit about the situation on TSN's Insider Trading.....
Subject will not be brought up at the upcoming GM meetings. Nor any announcment afterwards for the short term. League is still investigating.
Insider Trading: Seattle eyeing coaches; Could Parise trade be revisited?
Subject will not be brought up at the upcoming GM meetings. Nor any announcment afterwards for the short term. League is still investigating.
Insider Trading: Seattle eyeing coaches; Could Parise trade be revisited?
From Lebrun in the Athletic:
Daly confirmed that the league is investigating the Arizona Coyotes over alleged illegal testing of draft prospects. And that the investigation is ongoing. Otherwise, the league doesn’t want to comment much further.
As for whatever penalty the organization might face, it could be one of many different things and perhaps not just one thing. It could be loss of draft picks, or significant fines, or someone getting fired, or the Coyotes being denied access to an event; it’s all on the table or at least that’s my impression right now.
And I would also say that taking the temperature around pro sports and the ongoing saga with the Houston Astros and the cheating scandal in baseball, the timing couldn’t be worse for the Coyotes if indeed they are found to have done wrong. I think Bettman will come down hard if the league’s investigation finds wrongdoing because it will be important for the league to send a message.
Other teams are livid about these allegations. This isn’t being swept under the carpet
Daly confirmed that the league is investigating the Arizona Coyotes over alleged illegal testing of draft prospects. And that the investigation is ongoing. Otherwise, the league doesn’t want to comment much further.
As for whatever penalty the organization might face, it could be one of many different things and perhaps not just one thing. It could be loss of draft picks, or significant fines, or someone getting fired, or the Coyotes being denied access to an event; it’s all on the table or at least that’s my impression right now.
And I would also say that taking the temperature around pro sports and the ongoing saga with the Houston Astros and the cheating scandal in baseball, the timing couldn’t be worse for the Coyotes if indeed they are found to have done wrong. I think Bettman will come down hard if the league’s investigation finds wrongdoing because it will be important for the league to send a message.
Other teams are livid about these allegations. This isn’t being swept under the carpet
- Jan 3, 2012
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I read that too. Hard to compare to the Houston scandal, where video/audio evidence clearly shows the cheating contributing to better play.
What exactly are the Coyotes accused if and has it impacted the teams performance?
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
We were already denied access to the all-star game, weren't we? As for draft picks, we've already surrendered a bunch of them ourselves. In all seriousness, I've taken a light-hearted approach to this whole thing until now. Even the Lebrun article seems like goofy fear-mongoring. My eyes involuntarily started rolling when he talked about the Astros scandal making this timing bad and Bettman dropping the hammer "down hard" on us. Blah, blah, blah. Stupid. Still totally unconcerned about this.
Until this part...
"...other teams are livid about these allegations...."
...that's actually really scary. The NHL is the the owners of teams. That's what the league is. Gary Bettman is essentially the puppet for the collective ownership majority. Nobody seems to keep that perspective, but he's not a guy with inherent power. He does as he's told by the league, which is the owners, which is his job.
I assumed other teams were laughing it off a bit. Kids in gym shorts. Whoop-dee-doo. But the idea that teams are actually pissed off makes me think that Chayka really, REALLY f***ed up and they were straight up breaking the rules. I thought this was going to be a loose interpretation, NHL needs to clean up verbiage, slap on the wrist, no big deal. But if other teams are "livid" it sounds more like the Coyotes cheated. And got caught red handed. Scary.
Until this part...
"...other teams are livid about these allegations...."
...that's actually really scary. The NHL is the the owners of teams. That's what the league is. Gary Bettman is essentially the puppet for the collective ownership majority. Nobody seems to keep that perspective, but he's not a guy with inherent power. He does as he's told by the league, which is the owners, which is his job.
I assumed other teams were laughing it off a bit. Kids in gym shorts. Whoop-dee-doo. But the idea that teams are actually pissed off makes me think that Chayka really, REALLY f***ed up and they were straight up breaking the rules. I thought this was going to be a loose interpretation, NHL needs to clean up verbiage, slap on the wrist, no big deal. But if other teams are "livid" it sounds more like the Coyotes cheated. And got caught red handed. Scary.
You can't compare what we did against the Astros. What the Astros did fundamentally changed the advantage that the Astros had in a game. What we did makes us understand the athlete that we might draft better?
As far as the other teams, I'm going to hope that the other teams are largely the Canadian markets that are being loud about this, where the newer markets may view it more pragmatically. I expect a punishment, but the extent of the punishment I still don't think should extend further than maybe a Chayka suspension. But obviously, we have a clear bias
As far as the other teams, I'm going to hope that the other teams are largely the Canadian markets that are being loud about this, where the newer markets may view it more pragmatically. I expect a punishment, but the extent of the punishment I still don't think should extend further than maybe a Chayka suspension. But obviously, we have a clear bias
When this first started there was an article written that talked about this rule being put in place. They spoke to a GM who laughed it off with a we will just pay the fine, no big deal. The NHL then said the fines would start at $250K and the same GM said, yeah we won't be doing that. Might have been Lebrun??
I heard Morgan on NPR discussing this topic a couple of weeks ago. He was saying that these restrictions are written in a very broad manner and aren't specific like a rulebook for instance. He said that if it came to it lawyers would most likely be involved from both sides and the NHL would have to be more specific about these limitations moving forward to get rid of the grey area.
Still worried about this but it may come down to a fine and then an altering of how these restrictions are written.
Still worried about this but it may come down to a fine and then an altering of how these restrictions are written.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
This paragraph here:
“As for whatever penalty the organization might face, it could be one of many different things and perhaps not just one thing. It could be loss of draft picks, or significant fines, or someone getting fired, or the Coyotes being denied access to an event; it’s all on the table or at least that’s my impression right now.”
This tells me LeBrun doesn’t even know what the result could be. He’s speculating here. The fact he brought the Astros into it shows he’s trying to find some sort of justification for what the league might (or might not) do.
“As for whatever penalty the organization might face, it could be one of many different things and perhaps not just one thing. It could be loss of draft picks, or significant fines, or someone getting fired, or the Coyotes being denied access to an event; it’s all on the table or at least that’s my impression right now.”
This tells me LeBrun doesn’t even know what the result could be. He’s speculating here. The fact he brought the Astros into it shows he’s trying to find some sort of justification for what the league might (or might not) do.
ParisSaintGermain
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2004
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Nobody remotely rational can legitimately compare the Astros situation & the Coyotes scenario. This is absurd.
You can only compare when the Coyotes win the World Series.
You can only compare when the Coyotes win the World Series.
He's not comparing them. He is simply saying that the Astro's situation has raised the temp on any and all perceived cheating.
Here's an example of how serious the NHL is about rules:
Maple Leafs fined $500K, stripped of draft pick
I have no idea if the Coyote's cheated or not but the NHL does get serious about such allegations.
Maple Leafs fined $500K, stripped of draft pick
I have no idea if the Coyote's cheated or not but the NHL does get serious about such allegations.
- Jan 3, 2012
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moosemeister
5,000 strong
BUX7PHX
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- Jul 7, 2011
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The problem is that we have no idea what the allegations truly amount to.
If the Coyotes were literally bringing kids in and doing fitness testing with coaches and GMs present, then absolutely, other GMs in the NHL should be furious. If it is simply having a conversation with a kid and asking him to come in the room in gym shorts and a t-shirt, then I am misunderstanding where the idea is that the other GMs would be overly upset.
If anything, it almost sounds like a cross between the two - like the Coyote contingent would request an interview right after the player was done with a weightlifting session. They would park themselves outside of the weight room 10-15 minutes before and be able to observe the player lifting. Not that the team was specific in its ask for certain workouts, they just happened to be there to see the kids lifting and make general observations about their growth potential.
Regardless, even if my 2nd paragraph is correct, I have trouble figuring out what the proper answer is for the NHL. Is this a case of the Coyotes specifically skirting the rules and trying to get access to the player and their workouts, or is this a sort of dumb Coyote luck scenario where the optics surrounding waiting outside a weight room and wanting to chat with a player gives the impression of an unfair advantage.
I feel as if though the information on the story is very limited, and it does sound very much in a gray area of the rules. Unfortunately, I feel like any situation with a gray area in the rule book usually winds up with a larger punishment than a smaller one.
This is the most complete article that I have seen on it, and again, it is hard to figure out if the Coyotes are truly in the wrong here:
NHL investigating Arizona Coyotes for allegedly 'fitness testing' draft-eligible prospects, per report
Also, per other reports, teams are allowed to do psychological testing and conduct interviews with players during the year, but physical tests are not allowed. Some CHL teams believe the Coyotes did do physical testing, but doesn't it seem odd that some teams are issuing statements about it? In my eyes, if you are doing things the same way with every team, whether in WHL, OHL, or QMJHL, wouldn't it be more likely that either EVERY team or NO team takes issue with what is happening? It just seems odd that some teams would view this as breaking the rules, while others do not.
If the Coyotes were literally bringing kids in and doing fitness testing with coaches and GMs present, then absolutely, other GMs in the NHL should be furious. If it is simply having a conversation with a kid and asking him to come in the room in gym shorts and a t-shirt, then I am misunderstanding where the idea is that the other GMs would be overly upset.
If anything, it almost sounds like a cross between the two - like the Coyote contingent would request an interview right after the player was done with a weightlifting session. They would park themselves outside of the weight room 10-15 minutes before and be able to observe the player lifting. Not that the team was specific in its ask for certain workouts, they just happened to be there to see the kids lifting and make general observations about their growth potential.
Regardless, even if my 2nd paragraph is correct, I have trouble figuring out what the proper answer is for the NHL. Is this a case of the Coyotes specifically skirting the rules and trying to get access to the player and their workouts, or is this a sort of dumb Coyote luck scenario where the optics surrounding waiting outside a weight room and wanting to chat with a player gives the impression of an unfair advantage.
I feel as if though the information on the story is very limited, and it does sound very much in a gray area of the rules. Unfortunately, I feel like any situation with a gray area in the rule book usually winds up with a larger punishment than a smaller one.
This is the most complete article that I have seen on it, and again, it is hard to figure out if the Coyotes are truly in the wrong here:
NHL investigating Arizona Coyotes for allegedly 'fitness testing' draft-eligible prospects, per report
Also, per other reports, teams are allowed to do psychological testing and conduct interviews with players during the year, but physical tests are not allowed. Some CHL teams believe the Coyotes did do physical testing, but doesn't it seem odd that some teams are issuing statements about it? In my eyes, if you are doing things the same way with every team, whether in WHL, OHL, or QMJHL, wouldn't it be more likely that either EVERY team or NO team takes issue with what is happening? It just seems odd that some teams would view this as breaking the rules, while others do not.
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I think that's why the Astro's example has been thrown around, the NHL just might be hitting this possible mosquito with a sledgehammer to show how tough they are on cheating. The Coyote's just might fall victim to really bad timing, if guilty.
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