News Article: NHL investigates claims Flames coach, ex-Red Wings assistant Bill Peters used racial slurs

Status
Not open for further replies.

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
From all accounts I've seen, the n-word was used to refer to the lyrics of the song and not directed at Aliu personally. If that's indeed the case, it makes a huge difference, don't you think? It sounds to me like the angry old coach was telling one of his rookie players to stop blaring gangster rap in his locker room. As for the word itself, it's already treated with hyper sensitivity as it is. It's just short of being a crime here and it might even be a crime in Canada. Any non-black person caught using it is publicly raked over the coals. Case in point. Same thing applies to anti-semitism, though such slurs aren't a gigantic pop culture fad. What else should be done about it, in your opinion?

Good for you, honestly. And it goes to show that despite some people being condescending *******s to you personally, you weren't held back by the system. And that's what actually counts. As an immigrant coming from a communist bloc country, I'm supremely grateful to my adopted nation for its constitutionally protected rights for EVERYONE. Of course, it's not perfect and works better for some than others. We call them the rich, many of whom aren't caucasian.

I agree. Peters acted completely unprofessionally. The reason for the demotion that he speculated on was denied by the Blackhawks organization. At this point it's just speculation, but considering how the rest of his career went, I'll venture a guess he was never all that great of a prospect.

The pattern of abuse is the real issue for me. I don't see a racist pattern so far. Him using an awful racial slur in what seems like a fit of anger and then apologizing for it does not make him irredeemable in my eyes. Unless it can be proven that he held back Aliu or other minority players because of the color of their skin, this seems like a whole lot of outrage for the sake of outrage.

Re the use of the n word I think your reading is miles off. There is a difference but it isn't huge. Telling a black person that the music they listen to, traditionally associated with black people, is n..... music, is, albeit indirectly, calling that person a n..... . Which as we all know when used by a white person towards a black person has massive historical connotations of slavery, de-humanisation, segregation and worse. Peters must know that...and if he doesn't he's not fit to hold that kind of position.

I've no problem with a coach disliking the players music and wanting it turned down or more variety. If he'd said, "I'm sick of listening to that f****** rap music", there would be no story. The fact is that a middle aged white coach in a position of power used on more than one occasion the n-word in relation to traditionally black music being listened to by a black player. On top that, it was publicly, in an overtly white environment, within a broader white environment, to a player who was starting out and had absolutely no power.

In most environments, Peters would have been reported and either disciplined or sacked. The fact that hockey has for a long time been famously lacking in understanding of black players who aren't culturally ''uber-white-Canadian', and the power imbalance left Aliu with nowhere to go, and Peters would have known this.

What else should be done about it? If it was dealt with consistently in this manner, with the guilty party being publicly reprimanded, I'd be happy. However, in the UK we now have a prime minister who is running for re-election who has used racist terminology in a public arena more than once, and for me, it feels like the western world has taken a massive step backwards in certain areas in the last 5 years.

Re the broader issue, it is of course possible for anyone to thrive in another country if given the right mixture of personal qualities, emotional support, opportunity and kindness. But many people don't have many of these things, and were I in another part of the UK, my life experience to date might have been a lot less positive.

Re Aliu - its impossible to say, and its just he-said she said. The player is going to have his own conclusions, which may be fantasy or self justification, but the timing and subsequent trade are not a great look. Looking beyond that, its odd that Aliu had 3 points in his first 2 NHL games and barely got a look after that. A shame because at junior level his game looked likely to translate in a bottom six role.

Agree that abuse is a bigger issue, but for someone willing to have a racial element as part of that abuse, even if in a fit of anger, also tells you a lot about what that person has as an accessible part of their lexicon. It doesn't make it irredeemable, but the player doesn't seem to agree that there was an apology at the time.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,965
11,583
Ft. Myers, FL
Also, on Aliu on the why wait this long, keep in mind his experience in junior when he did stand up for himself in the famous Windsor Spitfire hazing debacle. He has no reason to trust the hockey world would do the right thing for him. In fact I have sat near scouts and around people in the stands that would deride his character and work ethic in games. He was a guy that was a lazy talent when you would sit up watching his games in the AHL. Eye opening to say the least what is happening to him behind closed doors. People can see this as running an excuse or whatever else, but I am seriously deeply troubled by a lot of what has happened during Aliu's career. He is a young man that wasn't really given a fair shake, first by Downey and the Spits, later his introduction to pro hockey is this. Yet we probably have threads on here about what a bust and malcontent this guy is... Well gee not hard to see how or maybe that it was completely false. Hard to say, but hard to read and I feel for the man.

He has also rejected Bill Peters apology, so it would seem there is going to be more to this.

 

Red Stanley

Registered User
Apr 25, 2015
2,414
778
USA
Re the use of the n word I think your reading is miles off. There is a difference but it isn't huge. Telling a black person that the music they listen to, traditionally associated with black people, is n..... music, is, albeit indirectly, calling that person a n..... . Which as we all know when used by a white person towards a black person has massive historical connotations of slavery, de-humanisation, segregation and worse. Peters must know that...and if he doesn't he's not fit to hold that kind of position.

I've no problem with a coach disliking the players music and wanting it turned down or more variety. If he'd said, "I'm sick of listening to that f****** rap music", there would be no story. The fact is that a middle aged white coach in a position of power used on more than one occasion the n-word in relation to traditionally black music being listened to by a black player. On top that, it was publicly, in an overtly white environment, within a broader white environment, to a player who was starting out and had absolutely no power.

In most environments, Peters would have been reported and either disciplined or sacked. The fact that hockey has for a long time been famously lacking in understanding of black players who aren't culturally ''uber-white-Canadian', and the power imbalance left Aliu with nowhere to go, and Peters would have known this.

What else should be done about it? If it was dealt with consistently in this manner, with the guilty party being publicly reprimanded, I'd be happy. However, in the UK we now have a prime minister who is running for re-election who has used racist terminology in a public arena more than once, and for me, it feels like the western world has taken a massive step backwards in certain areas in the last 5 years.

Re the broader issue, it is of course possible for anyone to thrive in another country if given the right mixture of personal qualities, emotional support, opportunity and kindness. But many people don't have many of these things, and were I in another part of the UK, my life experience to date might have been a lot less positive.

Re Aliu - its impossible to say, and its just he-said she said. The player is going to have his own conclusions, which may be fantasy or self justification, but the timing and subsequent trade are not a great look. Looking beyond that, its odd that Aliu had 3 points in his first 2 NHL games and barely got a look after that. A shame because at junior level his game looked likely to translate in a bottom six role.

Agree that abuse is a bigger issue, but for someone willing to have a racial element as part of that abuse, even if in a fit of anger, also tells you a lot about what that person has as an accessible part of their lexicon. It doesn't make it irredeemable, but the player doesn't seem to agree that there was an apology at the time.
While all of this is quite possible, I think the evidence I've seen so far suggests perceived slight rather than targeted malice. Don't get me wrong, it looks bad either way and he's for sure gone very soon. I'll be shocked if the Flames don't throw him under the bus over this. Still, I'm not sure whether our disagreement is a case of you reading too much into this, or me lacking nuanced understanding. I'd like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person who goes by the facts more often than not, so I'll just have to wait and see if more details emerge before commenting further. Thanks for the stimulating conversation. Cheers.
 

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
While all of this is quite possible, I think the evidence I've seen so far suggests perceived slight rather than targeted malice. Don't get me wrong, it looks bad either way and he's for sure gone very soon. I'll be shocked if the Flames don't throw him under the bus over this. Still, I'm not sure whether our disagreement is a case of you reading too much into this, or me lacking nuanced understanding. I'd like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person who goes by the facts more often than not, so I'll just have to wait and see if more details emerge before commenting further. Thanks for the stimulating conversation. Cheers.

Likewise thanks for keeping it civil!

Ultimately, we all approach any situation from personal perspective, and even though I've experienced very little overtly aggressive or negative racism in my life (and never from anyone whose opinion mattered), I have felt its subtle (and probably invariably completely unintentional or unconscious) impacts pretty regularly, despite working with mostly extremely welcoming and inclusive people.

All I can say, that if Peters had said that to me at that age (let alone twice), I don't know if I would have risked my career and made an official complaint as far up as it needed to go, or if I too would have kept schtum and waited until that career was nearly over. But sooner or later, either way, it would come out. I don't think it means Peters is fundamentally racist, but willingness to use racist language or rhetoric when you have a duty of care is a line crossed for me. I had a friend once who I'd known for 3 or 4 years having worked with each other for a year. Once on the way home drunk, he started saying stuff about Jewish people. I'm pretty sure I have no Jewish heritage for millennia, but I never spoke to him again. A willingness to use racist language in that way just fills me with utter contempt.
 

GreytWun

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
1,761
1,851
Ontario
… or any other professional level. His next gig will be in the juniors in a small city somewhere where the entire population is white.

As liberal as Canadians pretend to be, rural Canadians are some of the most racist people I have ever met.

This statement is utter non-sense.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,269
7,604
Bellingham, WA
I rest my case.
500 surveyed


lol..
Go look up the other articles then.

Quite frankly, I'm speaking from personal experience anyways. I've never been denied service in a restaurant anywhere besides rural Canada. I've been to a lot of southern states and redneck areas like West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Nebraska, Iowa, etc. Rural, especially northern, Canadians are full on racist towards First Nation people, and anyone who's been up there will tell you. Not sure where you're from, but you have no clue.
 

GreytWun

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
1,761
1,851
Ontario
Go look up the other articles then.

Quite frankly, I'm speaking from personal experience anyways. I've never been denied service in a restaurant anywhere besides rural Canada. I've been to a lot of southern states and redneck areas like West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Nebraska, Iowa, etc. Rural, especially northern, Canadians are full on racist towards First Nation people, and anyone who's been up there will tell you. Not sure where you're from, but you have no clue.

Yea sure I will take your word for it :laugh:

Im in Ontario.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,269
7,604
Bellingham, WA
Yea sure I will take your word for it :laugh:

Im in Ontario.
You're probably a big city like Toronto.

Ever head up north to Manitoba? Go to any town near a reserve and see how First Nation people are treated.

Usually in every town there's one or two bars that serve First Nation people, and it's cafeteria style (wait in line for a beer then pay the cashier). You won't see any First Nation people in white restaurants. It's worse than a black person going to Denny's.

Edit: Nothing you say will change the fact that rural Canadians are the most racist people I have met in my life. I say that as the truth, and I've traveled a lot.

That isn't to say there aren't more racist extremists in the world, but I don't attend KKK parades.
 

GreytWun

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
1,761
1,851
Ontario
You're probably a big city like Toronto.

Ever head up north to Manitoba? Go to any town near a reserve and see how First Nation people are treated.

Usually in every town there's one or two bars that serve First Nation people, and it's cafeteria style (wait in line for a beer then pay the cashier). You won't see any First Nation people in white restaurants. It's worse than a black person going to Denny's.

Edit: Nothing you say will change the fact that rural Canadians are the most racist people I have met in my life. I say that as the truth, and I've traveled a lot.

That isn't to say there aren't more racist extremists in the world, but I don't attend KKK parades.

Sure thing.
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
I hate these kinds of court of public opinion stories. Why wait 10 fricking years to say anything and then do it on Twitter of all places? And why not directly name the coach rather than bring up Babcock's name? Oh, right. Babcock's in the news cycle right now.

P.S. From reading further into the story, the racism accusation still sounds like a complete wash and an attempt by a washed up player to metoo the crap out of the media coverage. It serves absolutely no other purpose.
On the other hand, the physical abuse stuff is very serious and it begs the question of why was this guy, who clearly has anger management issues, allowed to coach at such a high level and for so long.

The player this happened to said "his career went downhill after this incident" and also through out colon craperdicks name. Theres a reason this is coming to light now, hes 30 years old and is stuck in the ECHL I believe? Needs to make a paycheck somehow.


Either way Peter's career is over in the NHL most likely. Some people come back after major incidents but with how things are right now, definitely no chance.

Lastly Peter's did come out and apologize, the way it was worded made it sound like he wasnt arguing what the player said and took responsibility for it. Which is better than most people nowadays.

Edit: just wanna say I also love how the media only picks up and covers racism stories when it involves a white individual toward a black. Any other races involved this would be a non-story. You can see interviews with someone like richard Sherman using openly racist terms towards white people with no repercussions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Stanley

MBH

Players Play
Jul 20, 2019
13,497
7,298
SE Michigan
redwingsnow.com
You're probably a big city like Toronto.

Ever head up north to Manitoba? Go to any town near a reserve and see how First Nation people are treated.

Usually in every town there's one or two bars that serve First Nation people, and it's cafeteria style (wait in line for a beer then pay the cashier). You won't see any First Nation people in white restaurants. It's worse than a black person going to Denny's.

Edit: Nothing you say will change the fact that rural Canadians are the most racist people I have met in my life. I say that as the truth, and I've traveled a lot.

That isn't to say there aren't more racist extremists in the world, but I don't attend KKK parades.

Hey man, never been there. So I'm gonna trust you on your experience... even if I don't 100 percent buy the general statement.

But WTF are you saying about Denny's and black people?
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,269
7,604
Bellingham, WA
I rest my case.
500 surveyed


lol..
You know, after I thought about this for a few minutes, the fact that you're willing to dismiss it because the survey was 500 people is sort of disturbing. In the US, if only a handful of people complain about racism, it gets a reaction. Out of 500, there shouldn't be anyone claiming racism, much less systemic racism.

You should really go up north to a town near a reserve (closer to the Arctic Circle, the better). If you don't witness de facto segregation, you're blind. It's people like you that are in denial that allows it to continue. Quite frankly, I think you're ignorant. A simple Google search shows it's an issue, not just against First Nation but towards blacks and other races as well.

Hey man, never been there. So I'm gonna trust you on your experience... even if I don't 100 percent buy the general statement.
But WTF are you saying about Denny's and black people?
There's been multiple cases with black people not getting served or being forced to pay before their meal at Denny's.

If you're not white and you go to northern Canada, you get treated like a black at Denny's. The statement was not meant to be derogatory, just an analogy. I empathize with them given that I've experienced a similar situation.

I tend to be conservative, and don't really use the race card much, but it's something else all together when you can't freakin' get a meal anywhere while on a business trip. I wound up eating a lot of Chinese food and crappy pizza at Boston Pizza, the only 2 places where I could get served.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,998
7,184
I really don't like how much this Aliu stuff is overshadowing the Carolina stuff which is much more recent too

I guess it's easier to just get hyper keyed in on the racial stuff to sweep the physical stuff under the rug,if the NHL goes in too deep on the latter they might not like what they find
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Stanley

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
The player this happened to said "his career went downhill after this incident" and also through out colon craperdicks name. Theres a reason this is coming to light now, hes 30 years old and is stuck in the ECHL I believe? Needs to make a paycheck somehow.


Either way Peter's career is over in the NHL most likely. Some people come back after major incidents but with how things are right now, definitely no chance.

Lastly Peter's did come out and apologize, the way it was worded made it sound like he wasnt arguing what the player said and took responsibility for it. Which is better than most people nowadays.

Edit: just wanna say I also love how the media only picks up and covers racism stories when it involves a white individual toward a black. Any other races involved this would be a non-story. You can see interviews with someone like richard Sherman using openly racist terms towards white people with no repercussions.

There's a whole host of statements in that post that are either deliberately provocative or remarkably ignorant.

If you can't see why the racist comments from a white person towards a black person in a North American setting are often deemed more newsworthy than some other alternatives (not to excuse any racism - and being multi-ethnic I've had it from a range of angles ;-) ), then I don't know what to say to you beyond recommending you gem up on the historical context. Your choice of take on Colin Kaepernick's name suggests a starting point that is unhelpful, and if you think Aliu posted his original tweet for financial gain then I suggest you re-read it. Regarding Richard Sherman, he has a real track record of both publicly criticising some negative attitudes and blame culture within some black communities towards white people and those in authority, despite experiencing pretty awful racism in a sport that has long had issues in that arena, has publicly welcomed and stood up for Nick Bosa in the face of criticism for Bosa's pretty awful social media track record, is known for widespread and extravagant acts of random generosity, and despite not being very likeable as a character is an articulate, outspoken person who is regularly part of the debate on that issue.

All I can conclude is that you and i have rather different world views. I shall avoid saying more in the interests of this forum.
 

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
I really don't like how much this Aliu stuff is overshadowing the Carolina stuff which is much more recent too

I guess it's easier to just get hyper keyed in on the racial stuff to sweep the physical stuff under the rug,if the NHL goes in too deep on the latter they might not like what they find
Undoubtedly. The NHL is a franchise league (which I think is an insane model but it is what it is), and is always going to focus on individuals ahead of publicly airing issues of the acceptance of abuse culture within their sport.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,224
14,973
crease
You know, after I thought about this for a few minutes, the fact that you're willing to dismiss it because the survey was 500 people is sort of disturbing.​

It's mainly disturbing because it shows the Canadian education system isn't doing any better about teaching statistics than the US. You can poll 1,000 people to represent 260 million with a margin of error of 3%. The cited survey had a margin of error of less than 5%.

But yeah, LOL 500 people, m i rite?
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
There's a whole host of statements in that post that are either deliberately provocative or remarkably ignorant.

If you can't see why the racist comments from a white person towards a black person in a North American setting are often deemed more newsworthy than some other alternatives (not to excuse any racism - and being multi-ethnic I've had it from a range of angles ;-) ), then I don't know what to say to you beyond recommending you gem up on the historical context. Your choice of take on Colin Kaepernick's name suggests a starting point that is unhelpful, and if you think Aliu posted his original tweet for financial gain then I suggest you re-read it. Regarding Richard Sherman, he has a real track record of both publicly criticising some negative attitudes and blame culture within some black communities towards white people and those in authority, despite experiencing pretty awful racism in a sport that has long had issues in that arena, has publicly welcomed and stood up for Nick Bosa in the face of criticism for Bosa's pretty awful social media track record, is known for widespread and extravagant acts of random generosity, and despite not being very likeable as a character is an articulate, outspoken person who is regularly part of the debate on that issue.

All I can conclude is that you and i have rather different world views. I shall avoid saying more in the interests of this forum.

Bosa doesnt have an awful social media track record. You would only say that if you're a leftist, which politics should be left out of the conversation.

The fact of the matter is racism is terrible no matter which races are involved in the situation. But giving special treatment to cases that involve white on black racism is just as wrong, all evil should be treated the same way and shut down. As soon as people learn to stop giving special treatment to certain races and not others then in my opinion it would create a better environment for all. That after all is equality.
 

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
Bosa doesnt have an awful social media track record. You would only say that if you're a leftist, which politics should be left out of the conversation.

The fact of the matter is racism is terrible no matter which races are involved in the situation. But giving special treatment to cases that involve white on black racism is just as wrong, all evil should be treated the same way and shut down. As soon as people learn to stop giving special treatment to certain races and not others then in my opinion it would create a better environment for all. That after all is equality.

Lets just say that you may view as leftist would not be seen as leftist everywhere. Personally I don't find homophobia and dismissing concerns about racially motivated murder by the authorities as political issues. The very fact that they could be considered such rather than basic human rights issues astound me in this international age.

Of course all racism is terrible, and people of all nationalities are guilty, and thus deserving of censure - but if you don't think that a history of mass transportation, slavery, mass murder, colonisation, dehumnisation, segregation and institutional violence and discrimination (which is still in evidence to a degree) don't create some sort of differentiation in the way these matters need to be approached, you should read the article on The Athletic. The weight and impact is definitely partly defined by historical relationships. I'm mixed race and identify more with the Caucasian part of my cultural heritage, but the weight of history and still widespread (often subconscious) cultural barriers, make it a lot easier for me to laugh off the couple of occasions I've had of black people making racist comments than when white people have. Because my white bloodlines were never subjected to what I referred to above.

The N-word is particularly potent as it is fundamentally linked with both slavery and pseudo scientific 18th & 19th century dehumanisation - lies told by the exploitative rich few to convince the poor majority that other races were inferior and not worthy of the same human rights, because they were sub-human. (a distinction that was never so cruelly made prior to this period of mass exploitation, despite popular culture telling us that people of different races were incredible rarities in western europe and the early US - simply not true).

Bill Peters, in his position of authority, and his duty of care, MUST have had some awareness of this, and that is why he his high profile career is over. Its one thing Bosa tweeting out some stuff as teenager, relatively unexposed to different peoples, lacking in the emotional maturity and knowledge to see the resonance of his words, and frankly at a relatively early stage of his personal journey, and likely to evolve significantly. Quite another for an experienced man, twice the age of the those he is speaking to and in a position of power, who has lived in different communities and with more than twice the life experience of Bosa.

I'm sure Peters is the tip of an Iceberg, but in a way that makes dealing with this issue strongly even more important. The fact that it is alongside more recent bullying and violent behaviour only cements that fact that he is incompatible with a professional position with a duty of care.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->