News Article: NHL investigates claims Flames coach, ex-Red Wings assistant Bill Peters used racial slurs

[kliq]

I don't get how you even "investigate" something like this. Put out an ad that says "hey, does anyone happen to have any recordings of this guy saying racist stuff?" And then sit back and call it a day, right?

You interview and discuss this time period with everyone that was around at the time in order to give you an idea of what the culture at that time was like.

 

[Dotter]

They already had Rockford teammates publicly corroborate Aliu's account of the events... I am not sure if they just won't do anything on Thanksgiving, but I would be stunned if Peters coaches again. There are also now physical abuse stories from Carolina that have been corroborated by several teammates there.

Peter's issues a statement apologizing, it would seem open and shut that he did that exact part of this story.

Yup. He did it. He admitted to doing it when he apologized and now his NHL career over. Interestingly, he never publicly apologized to Aliu. Leads me to believe he is not really sorry, but sorry he got called out and is now under fire.

Babcock will probably have a job next season or the season after after the fire cools off. I think he is going to lay low for awhile.

 

[MBH]

Similar to the USA south...

It's not a South vs North thing.
It's a Rural vs Suburban or Rural vs Urban thing.

 

[MBH]

I wonder if this impacts Stan Bowman at all.

 

[Dotter]

I wonder if this impacts Stan Bowman at all.

That'd be interesting. But I think it ends with the racial slurs.

 

[newfy]

… or any other professional level. His next gig will be in the juniors in a small city somewhere where the entire population is white.

As liberal as Canadians pretend to be, rural Canadians are some of the most racist people I have ever met.

Tone it down a bit.

I dont think a lot of Canadians pretend to be liberal at all. The last election had the conservatives win the popular vote. That being said, I guarantee rural Canadians overall are not as racist as rural americans. Go to a country music festival in both countries and youll see what I'm talking about

 

[Red Stanley]

It's not a South vs North thing.
It's a Rural vs Suburban or Rural vs Urban thing.

There's a whole lot of myth and stereotyping in pop culture about rural America. That's not surprising considering pop culture mainly originates in coastal metro areas and the people who perpetuate it have never been to the places or met the people they speak of. I'm willing to bet this applies to rural Canada even more.

 

[lomekian]

From all accounts, it sounds like an angry coach telling one of his players to stop playing music that drops the n-word all over. Peters says he immediately apologized and that this is not part of his value system. But it literally doesn't matter how racist he is or is not on the inside, if that's the only "racist" thing he's being accused of. Getting a player demoted because of it has already been denied by the Blackhawks. It's more likely Aliu spent more energy on "rebelling" than playing good hockey. Of course, him getting fired is a foregone conclusion at this point. I just want to hear more about the abuse allegations, as that is the real story in my opinion.

I'm guessing from your perspective of this you have limited experience of being an ethnic minority for any great length of time. Certainly the relationship with and cultural re-appropriation of the 'n' word by people of afro-Caribbean descent is an issue that should be approached as sensitively as that of issues of anti-semitism in its various forms.

I am and always have been culturally assimilated in the land of my birth, indeed with far greater cultural, historical and traditional knowledge than the vast majority of my compatriots, but I am often made very aware of my different skin tone, with a paternalistic or patronising attitude. Luckily, I am well educated, older and am by nature a forgiving optimist, and thus not unduly affected, but the 'difference' is nearly always 'in the room'. It would be much harder for a young black man, already an immigrant in a very overtly caucasian world.

While I am not a fan of historical trial by media, for a man in Peters position to be so utterly insensitve, stupid and provocative towards a young player who is already dealing with standing out like a saw thumb in an environment where he is overwhelmingly in the minority ethnically is shocking. What is almost more troubling is that Aliu was demoted that season despite performing to a good level (supposedly just after this incident, but that can't be corroborated), and that other players witnessed and complained about the comments without any action.

Even more worrying if it figures as part of a broader pattern of abuse etc.

Someone saying that a negative act of this sort they have committed is not part of their value system doesn't cut a lot of mustard with me when the act was a comparatively recent part of their adult life. In most work contexts, that phrasing would result in pretty much instant dismissal.

 

[vladdy16]

It is absolutely insane to me, that a bunch of people from the state of Michigan, are going on about the "untold" racism of other areas and demographics. Take a look in the mirror imo.

If we want to make generalizations though, a lot of successful pro hockey coaches are/were abusive, bad people.

I'm not for individuality or blowing things out of proportion, but the more coaches that have to answer for themselves in the future the better imo.

 

[lomekian]

Not really sure this is for the forum in terms of specific stories, but just so you don't think I am making it up without full context. Let's just say I witnessed multiple hate crimes while in Italy. You have seen some of this with their national team in soccer in terms of the "no black" Italians chant... Well I have seen it extend into random streets of Rome and in Naples as well. Overt racism and religious persecution. But that is dancing on a pretty sensitive subject in terms of site rules, just to say I witnessed things happening outright in public that stunned me and really deeply shook me. I can think of one in particular in Rome that I had to asked translation for and the poor older couple embarrassingly translated for me. Group of four men berating a younger person serving them in that instance. A lot of times in Europe I found it to be more out in the open than what I have experienced in North America.

Just not good, but I think often times when the subject is broached we look at Racism as a unique problem to North America or just in the areas you are familiar with. I have encountered it virtually everywhere I have been. It is troubling no matter where it is happening, but rural NA is not the only place this stuff is happening, not even close...

As for the it is music lyrics. That isn't an acceptable excuse, it wasn't when I got this talk in the mid-80s as a five year old from my dad and Bill Peters should certainly know better.

Yeah, parts of Italy, particularly those with a right wing history, are shockingly racist. This is part due to their lack of colonial history and this a comparatively lack of significant numbers of ethnic minorities of certain groups until fairly recently, but also in part due to the fact that Italy, much like the US, is a country with stark differences in politics, attitudes and world view in different regions. Sometimes more extreme views are inflated by a desire to accentuate differentiation with other cities/regions. Rome itself is a deeply schizophrenic city when it comes to such things, but I have a Roman friend who now feels like she can't feel at home there anymore because some of the attitudes are so antiquated.

 

[lomekian]

Yup. He did it. He admitted to doing it when he apologized and now his NHL career over. Interestingly, he never publicly apologized to Aliu. Leads me to believe he is not really sorry, but sorry he got called out and is now under fire.

Babcock will probably have a job next season or the season after after the fire cools off. I think he is going to lay low for awhile.

Babs has been shown to be a bully who screws with people to push their buttons in a way that isn't as clever as he thinks. He's also been outed many times for having a big ego and very high self regard. However, there is nothing totally damning that's come out yet, and with some well placed explanation about learning from his mistakes, he'll be in a big job when he fancies it.

Unless more damning dirt emerges.

 

[lomekian]

There's a whole lot of myth and stereotyping in pop culture about rural America. That's not surprising considering pop culture mainly originates in coastal metro areas and the people who perpetuate it have never been to the places or met the people they speak of. I'm willing to bet this applies to rural Canada even more.

Agree on this. While there are are clear urban rural divides, it really depends on the specifics of the areas. Some rural areas are extremely liberal, and others though conservative don't have much evidence of openly racist attitudes. Equally some cities are the other way. And also regions shift over time - in both the US and the UK for instance, there are parts of the country that have held very different majority political views at different times.
Of course, there is more likely to be greater incidents of ignorance and prejudice in areas who have little or no exposure to diversity, but that's the same the world over, and doesn't take into account individual regional characteristics.
Its like how unstable, violent and poverty stricken much of Central America is, while Costa Rica is a fast developing economy with very little violence and a globally very advance eco policy. We must be careful to avoid speaking in absolutes, particularly in this polarised world of electronic echo chambers.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yeah, parts of Italy, particularly those with a right wing history, are shockingly racist. This is part due to their lack of colonial history and this a comparatively lack of significant numbers of ethnic minorities of certain groups until fairly recently, but also in part due to the fact that Italy, much like the US, is a country with stark differences in politics, attitudes and world view in different regions. Sometimes more extreme views are inflated by a desire to accentuate differentiation with other cities/regions. Rome itself is a deeply schizophrenic city when it comes to such things, but I have a Roman friend who now feels like she can't feel at home there anymore because some of the attitudes are so antiquated.

I spent a week in Rome after graduating high school, and one time around dusk while I was walking the streets I noticed a big guy smacking around some woman, and everyone within earshot just went about their business like nothing was wrong. It made me feel incredibly uneasy.

 

[vladdy16]

Agree on this. While there are are clear urban rural divides, it really depends on the specifics of the areas. Some rural areas are extremely liberal, and others though conservative don't have much evidence of openly racist attitudes. Equally some cities are the other way. And also regions shift over time - in both the US and the UK for instance, there are parts of the country that have held very different majority political views at different times.
Of course, there is more likely to be greater incidents of ignorance and prejudice in areas who have little or no exposure to diversity, but that's the same the world over, and doesn't take into account individual regional characteristics.
Its like how unstable, violent and poverty stricken much of Central America is, while Costa Rica is a fast developing economy with very little violence and a globally very advance eco policy. We must be careful to avoid speaking in absolutes, particularly in this polarised world of electronic echo chambers.

I think you guys are being completely inaccurate, off base and possibly enabling towards convenient ignorance.

Not being predjudiced is a neutral position.

There isn't a binary component to it. Not being overtly racist is a neutral position, not 'liberal' or 'urban'. And neutrality is not something you have to build towards imbueing, it's something you need to allow to be unobstructed. Otherwise you might end up building highways through community centers, libraries and grocery stores.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Not really sure this is for the forum in terms of specific stories, but just so you don't think I am making it up without full context. Let's just say I witnessed multiple hate crimes while in Italy. You have seen some of this with their national team in soccer in terms of the "no black" Italians chant... Well I have seen it extend into random streets of Rome and in Naples as well. Overt racism and religious persecution. But that is dancing on a pretty sensitive subject in terms of site rules, just to say I witnessed things happening outright in public that stunned me and really deeply shook me. I can think of one in particular in Rome that I had to asked translation for and the poor older couple embarrassingly translated for me. Group of four men berating a younger person serving them in that instance. A lot of times in Europe I found it to be more out in the open than what I have experienced in North America.

Just not good, but I think often times when the subject is broached we look at Racism as a unique problem to North America or just in the areas you are familiar with. I have encountered it virtually everywhere I have been. It is troubling no matter where it is happening, but rural NA is not the only place this stuff is happening, not even close...

As for the it is music lyrics. That isn't an acceptable excuse, it wasn't when I got this talk in the mid-80s as a five year old from my dad and Bill Peters should certainly know better.

Yes he should know better. Thanks for sharing your story and sorry you had to experience that. I hate racism it is literally the dumbest things us as humans do to each other...

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yes he should know better. Thanks for sharing your story and sorry you had to experience that. I hate racism it is literally the dumbest things us as humans do to each other...

'Othering' is a major issue in humans, and unfortunately othering people on the basis of looking different than us is the easiest form.

 

[MBH]

There's a whole lot of myth and stereotyping in pop culture about rural America. That's not surprising considering pop culture mainly originates in coastal metro areas and the people who perpetuate it have never been to the places or met the people they speak of. I'm willing to bet this applies to rural Canada even more.

I grew up in a "white trash" neighborhood in a Canadian city. It was pretty racist, to be honest.
But, as a whole, the city really wasn't too racist.

So maybe it's not about rural vs suburban or urban, now that I think about it.

But I'll tell you this. I went down to a grain elevator in a small rural Michigan town and talked to farmers... And the words they used, the beliefs they held, were shocking.
These weren't Ricky-Joe farmers. These were wealthy farmers. School board presidents. Township supervisors. Church deacons.
People who were viewed as "good people" in almost every sense of the word.

I guess I'd rather say its educated vs uneducated - but that's probably a leap too.

 

[Red Stanley]

I'm guessing from your perspective of this you have limited experience of being an ethnic minority for any great length of time. Certainly the relationship with and cultural re-appropriation of the 'n' word by people of afro-Caribbean descent is an issue that should be approached as sensitively as that of issues of anti-semitism in its various forms.

From all accounts I've seen, the n-word was used to refer to the lyrics of the song and not directed at Aliu personally. If that's indeed the case, it makes a huge difference, don't you think? It sounds to me like the angry old coach was telling one of his rookie players to stop blaring gangster rap in his locker room. As for the word itself, it's already treated with hyper sensitivity as it is. It's just short of being a crime here and it might even be a crime in Canada. Any non-black person caught using it is publicly raked over the coals. Case in point. Same thing applies to anti-semitism, though such slurs aren't a gigantic pop culture fad. What else should be done about it, in your opinion?

I am and always have been culturally assimilated in the land of my birth, indeed with far greater cultural, historical and traditional knowledge than the vast majority of my compatriots, but I am often made very aware of my different skin tone, with a paternalistic or patronising attitude. Luckily, I am well educated, older and am by nature a forgiving optimist, and thus not unduly affected, but the 'difference' is nearly always 'in the room'. It would be much harder for a young black man, already an immigrant in a very overtly caucasian world.

Good for you, honestly. And it goes to show that despite some people being condescending assholes to you personally, you weren't held back by the system. And that's what actually counts. As an immigrant coming from a communist bloc country, I'm supremely grateful to my adopted nation for its constitutionally protected rights for EVERYONE. Of course, it's not perfect and works better for some than others. We call them the rich, many of whom aren't caucasian.

While I am not a fan of historical trial by media, for a man in Peters position to be so utterly insensitve, stupid and provocative towards a young player who is already dealing with standing out like a saw thumb in an environment where he is overwhelmingly in the minority ethnically is shocking. What is almost more troubling is that Aliu was demoted that season despite performing to a good level (supposedly just after this incident, but that can't be corroborated), and that other players witnessed and complained about the comments without any action.

I agree. Peters acted completely unprofessionally. The reason for the demotion that he speculated on was denied by the Blackhawks organization. At this point it's just speculation, but considering how the rest of his career went, I'll venture a guess he was never all that great of a prospect.

Even more worrying if it figures as part of a broader pattern of abuse etc.

Someone saying that a negative act of this sort they have committed is not part of their value system doesn't cut a lot of mustard with me when the act was a comparatively recent part of their adult life. In most work contexts, that phrasing would result in pretty much instant dismissal.

The pattern of abuse is the real issue for me. I don't see a racist pattern so far. Him using an awful racial slur in what seems like a fit of anger and then apologizing for it does not make him irredeemable in my eyes. Unless it can be proven that he held back Aliu or other minority players because of the color of their skin, this seems like a whole lot of outrage for the sake of outrage.

 

[MBH]

The reason for the demotion that he speculated on was denied by the Blackhawks organization. At this point it's just speculation, but considering how the rest of his career went, I'll venture a guess he was never all that great of a prospect.

11-6-17 in 48 games is solid for a 20 year old AHL rookie.
Really weird he'd get demoted to the AHL.

But this Aliu kid doesn't fit the NHL culture - and speaking out now is an example of that.
Going public about the hazing incident is an example of that.

Hockey culture guys have little patience for guys who don't heed hockey culture code.

 

[Red Stanley]

I grew up in a "white trash" neighborhood in a Canadian city. It was pretty racist, to be honest.
But, as a whole, the city really wasn't too racist.

So maybe it's not about rural vs suburban or urban, now that I think about it.

But I'll tell you this. I went down to a grain elevator in a small rural Michigan town and talked to farmers... And the words they used, the beliefs they held, were shocking.
These weren't Ricky-Joe farmers. These were wealthy farmers. School board presidents. Township supervisors. Church deacons.
People who were viewed as "good people" in almost every sense of the word.

I guess I'd rather say its educated vs uneducated - but that's probably a leap too.

Like lomekian said, it's most likely due to a lack of cultural exposure. Many rural communities tend to be very homogeneous, tightly-knit and resistant to change. They're still by and large peaceful and hospitable people and that's really the most you can hope for from any community of humans.

 

[MBH]

Like lomekian said, it's most likely due to a lack of cultural exposure. Many rural communities tend to be very homogeneous, tightly-knit and resistant to change. They're still by and large peaceful and hospitable people and that's really the most you can hope for from any community of humans.

I have friends who are police/fire.
Good guys. Put their lives on the line for people.
Racist.

Yet, and this upsets my hyper PC friends, good people.

You can be racist or homophobic and a good person.
We all have blind spots... if not dark spots.

That said - if this coach is what he's portrayed as - the Flames are probably right to make an example of him.

 

[Red Stanley]

I have friends who are police/fire.
Good guys. Put their lives on the line for people.
Racist.

Yet, and this upsets my hyper PC friends, good people.

You can be racist or homophobic and a good person.
We all have blind spots... if not dark spots.

That said - if this coach is what he's portrayed as - the Flames are probably right to make an example of him.

My grandmother, rest her soul, would say some incredibly ignorant things, but she never really meant any harm by it. She was just ... ignorant and the sweetest old lady. It's not one size fits all when it comes to this issue.

 

[lomekian]

I think you guys are being completely inaccurate, off base and possibly enabling towards convenient ignorance.

Not being predjudiced is a neutral position.

There isn't a binary component to it. Not being overtly racist is a neutral position, not 'liberal' or 'urban'. And neutrality is not something you have to build towards imbueing, it's something you need to allow to be unobstructed.

I suppose it depends on what your view / definition of liberal is. I mean it beyond the political sphere (and lets face it, some countries ideas of liberal are massively right wing from other perspective). The definition is: "willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas". which strikes me as as neutral as you can get.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Very troubling story, I doubt he coaches in the NHL again.

Doubt he does much of anything again

 

[Gniwder]

Tone it down a bit.

I dont think a lot of Canadians pretend to be liberal at all. The last election had the conservatives win the popular vote. That being said, I guarantee rural Canadians overall are not as racist as rural americans. Go to a country music festival in both countries and youll see what I'm talking about

I'm actually speaking from experience. There are only two types of people in rural Canada, and being Asian, I look more like First Nation than white. I've been to multiple restaurants where I couldn't get served unless I was with a white person. The bouncer at a nudie bar asked me to leave because I wasn't drinking, and I told him I've been waiting for a waitress for 30 minutes. He was a nice kid, apologized and brought a waitress.

I've never been denied service anywhere in the US. I do a lot of redneck stuff, I vacation in Nebraska, traveled the south on business, never had a similar issue. I don't do country, but I've been to a Ted Nuggent concert, no issues.

Don't tell people to tone it down when it comes to racism. It's still around.​