NHL in Seattle?

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piercehannigan

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Feb 10, 2010
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Capsville
How does that solve a perceived need to have a team in the Pacific Northwest?

Also, there are a lot of Wizards fans in D.C. that would vehemently object to that proposal anyway (myself included.) They're just about the worst team in basketball currently, and have been on an aggregate basis for the last 4 years or so, but as soon as they show signs of life the Verizon Center is going to be packed to the rafters again. When they were just a moderately successful team during the days of Arenas, Butler. And Jamison, they sold out routinely, so I wouldn't be so quick to banish them to the nettherworld.

I thought it was obvious I was joking. Clearly this would never happen. My only problem with the Wizards is their stupid name and color. I just can't get behind it. I hope Leonsis does something about the colors. And once they get some more draft picks and start to look up there's no doubt I'll start watching more games. But when they win about 2 road games, it's difficult to watch.
 

TheFountainhead

Red Nation
Sep 8, 2008
3,462
409
Washington, DC
I thought it was obvious I was joking. Clearly this would never happen. My only problem with the Wizards is their stupid name and color. I just can't get behind it. I hope Leonsis does something about the colors. And once they get some more draft picks and start to look up there's no doubt I'll start watching more games. But when they win about 2 road games, it's difficult to watch.

Their color scheme/nickname combination is horrendous. They are changing to new unis this offseason, so that'll ameliorate part of that concern. The on-court incompetence on the other hand is going to take a little longer to rectify :laugh:.
 

sharksohnoes!

whatisdeadmayneverdie
Mar 9, 2006
3,886
8
Palo Alto, CA
Some of us wouldn't mind, but yeah, you're basically right. It's absolutely a Seahawks and Mariners town--nothing else rates.

I was under the impression that the Sounders had a HUGE fanbase. It seems to me that if a city can support a soccer team, they would support a hockey team as well.
 

jimmythescot

Registered User
Jul 28, 2009
5,239
99
Edinburgh, Scotland
What the hell is the "T-Birds?"

Thunderbird.

native_american_thunderbird1.jpg


This would be a good logo for them if they got a team (and kept that name)

native_american_thunderbird.jpg
 

tailfins

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Apr 20, 2005
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Why isn't there a team in Seattle?

I know this has been discussed in a few different threads, but I couldn't find anything dedicated to the question.

How is it that Seattle doesn't have a franchise?

It seems like such a perfect fit. You can take the train between Seattle and Vancouver, there's the natural rivalry with San Jose (Microsofties vs. Silicon Valley), it's a reasonably large TV market (#13). I understand you still need good ownership and an NHL arena, but given that the league has forced franchises into places without ready arenas and who the league has let in as owners, shouldn't Seattle be a done deal? And it's not as if there is no arena - the Tacoma Dome does exist as a temporary home. Especially now that they don't have a basketball team anymore.

Large market, natural rivals, limited competition, lots of transplants - no brainer, no?
 

zimmy61

Registered User
Aug 17, 2009
236
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I know this has been discussed in a few different threads, but I couldn't find anything dedicated to the question.

How is it that Seattle doesn't have a franchise?

It seems like such a perfect fit. You can take the train between Seattle and Vancouver, there's the natural rivalry with San Jose (Microsofties vs. Silicon Valley), it's a reasonably large TV market (#13). I understand you still need good ownership and an NHL arena, but given that the league has forced franchises into places without ready arenas and who the league has let in as owners, shouldn't Seattle be a done deal? And it's not as if there is no arena - the Tacoma Dome does exist as a temporary home. Especially now that they don't have a basketball team anymore.

Large market, natural rivals, limited competition, lots of transplants - no brainer, no?

I believe that the seats in the KeyArena aren't properly set up for hockey sight lines. And just because it appears as though the NHL has 'forced franchises into places without ready arenas' doesn't mean that they can do so without a municipality/owner willing to foot the bill. If they couldn't find the will to build a new arena for the Sonics, I doubt they manage for the NHL anytime soon.
 

Starrlinx

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Sep 11, 2004
2,189
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Seattle, WA
I believe that the seats in the KeyArena aren't properly set up for hockey sight lines. And just because it appears as though the NHL has 'forced franchises into places without ready arenas' doesn't mean that they can do so without a municipality/owner willing to foot the bill. If they couldn't find the will to build a new arena for the Sonics, I doubt they manage for the NHL anytime soon.
This is correct. Seattle is a viable market but unless someone privately decides to throw down $500 million on a new multipurpose arena the NHL/NBA are not coming (back).

EDIT: Seattle would absolutely support the NHL, look at how successful the Sounders have been in just over two seasons. 30,000+/game and a massive following. And that is soccer...
 
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phxroadrunner

Registered User
Oct 9, 2007
156
1
I know this has been discussed in a few different threads, but I couldn't find anything dedicated to the question.

How is it that Seattle doesn't have a franchise?

It seems like such a perfect fit. You can take the train between Seattle and Vancouver, there's the natural rivalry with San Jose (Microsofties vs. Silicon Valley), it's a reasonably large TV market (#13). I understand you still need good ownership and an NHL arena, but given that the league has forced franchises into places without ready arenas and who the league has let in as owners, shouldn't Seattle be a done deal? And it's not as if there is no arena - the Tacoma Dome does exist as a temporary home. Especially now that they don't have a basketball team anymore.

Large market, natural rivals, limited competition, lots of transplants - no brainer, no?

Bettman would have loved nothing more than to place expansion franchises in Seattle
and/or Portland back in the 90s. Of course the problem is ownership and an arena. Portland has the venue but Paul Allen hates hockey -- or at least he hates the economics of owning an NHL franchise. Seattle has neither, and it doesn't look like it will anytime soon. Besides, I'm not so sure it's that great of a hockey market. Back in the old WHL days of the 60s, when Center Coliseum was built, the city had its best chance to make its case. However, the Totems didn't draw as well as some of the other franchises in the WHL and strong ownership was lacking.
This became evident in 1974 when the NHL granted the Totems' ownership group an expansion franchise for 1976-77. Unfortunately, the NHL rescinded the franchise when the owners failed to meet certain financial commitments, in part because not enough season ticket pledges were secured.
I know that's ancient history but the fact that a suitable venue and an owner don't exist leads me to believe there's not a huge appetite for NHL hockey in Seattle.
And I don't think there's enough computer geeks to get all jazzed about a rivalry with San Jose.




I know there's been a junior team for the last 30+ years
 

Grudy0

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
1,878
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Maryland
Bettman would have loved nothing more than to place expansion franchises in Seattle and/or Portland back in the 90s. Of course the problem is ownership and an arena. Portland has the venue but Paul Allen hates hockey -- or at least he hates the economics of owning an NHL franchise.
Portland is a slightly different issue. I think that it was more possible that an NHL franchise could have been likely owned by Paul Allen and place in the Pacific Northwest, until the Lightning were able to lure Tod Leiweke away from the Seahawks. That was Paul Allen's right hand man, and could have easily helped with a hockey team in PNW.
Besides, I'm not so sure it's that great of a hockey market. Back in the old WHL days of the 60s, when Center Coliseum was built, the city had its best chance to make its case. However, the Totems didn't draw as well as some of the other franchises in the WHL and strong ownership was lacking.
It wasn't lack of attendance nor ownership that caused the problem.

When the big 1967 expansion was announced, it was only going to places that had other sports teams. That immediately ruled out both Seattle and Portland. There's a quote somewhere that Clarence Campbell told the Seattle Totems' ownership not to bother wasting their money.
This became evident in 1974 when the NHL granted the Totems' ownership group an expansion franchise for 1976-77. Unfortunately, the NHL rescinded the franchise when the owners failed to meet certain financial commitments, in part because not enough season ticket pledges were secured.
The main issue was the financing. The group awarded the conditional franchise ended up suing the league in an anti-trust suit that wasn't resolved until the mid-1980's.

Let's not forget that between 1965 and 1974, the league in which the Totems and the Portland Buckaroos played, the Western Hockey League, lost members in San Francisco, Los Angeles and Vancouver to the NHL, and also lost Denver and Phoenix to the WHA. Professional hockey was growing leaps-and-bounds during the decade, and of course both the WHL players and league were getting raided, to both the Totems' and Bucakroos' detriment.
I know that's ancient history but the fact that a suitable venue and an owner don't exist leads me to believe there's not a huge appetite for NHL hockey in Seattle.
And I don't think there's enough computer geeks to get all jazzed about a rivalry with San Jose.
But there was also the failed bid during 1990, where Ottawa and Tampa Bay were granted franchises. There was a group of investors for a Seattle franchise, but the only name on the application belonged to Ackerley, the son of the owner of the SuperSonics. Ackerley asked to present to the expansion committee alone, and withdrew the expansion application. Less than five years later, the Coliseum was renovated for basketball and the hockey configuration was gutted.

Of course, those same SuperSonics were sold by Ackerley about four years ago, and they now play in Oklahoma City, as the City of Seattle will not sink any more money into a new arena. That means if any of the other suburbs would like to house an NHL team, they just need the arena, an ownership group, and a team either by expansion or relocation.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
I believe that the seats in the KeyArena aren't properly set up for hockey sight lines.

And you thought the America West Arena / US Airways Center was bad:

keyarena_hockey_copy-2063.gif


The reported capacity for Hockey is only 11K.
 

bosshogg18

Registered User
Oct 26, 2009
175
0
Lyle, WA, Tacoma, WA
Of course, those same SuperSonics were sold by Ackerley about four years ago, and they now play in Oklahoma City, as the City of Seattle will not sink any more money into a new arena. That means if any of the other suburbs would like to house an NHL team, they just need the arena, an ownership group, and a team either by expansion or relocation.

Wrong! Ackerley sold the Sonics to Howard Schultz, founder of Starbucks, who then sold team to owners in OKC. This is why Howard Schultz is a very hated man in Seattle. Also many boycott Starbucks, including myself to this very day.
Check out the video link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBmnaZDnK38
 

Rick Nash homework

Registered User
Jun 5, 2010
805
0
Massachusetts
The super sonics and mariners say hi. Seattle is an arts city, not a sports city.

Tons of arts city's like LA, San Francisco, New York, and Chicago are known arts city's, yet they have sports teams and do well with them. Seattle needs a new arena before they get any NHL team.
 
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Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,741
S. Pasadena, CA
I disagree. Midwest sports fans are some of the most passionate in this country. Ohio fans in particular are extremely loyal... This from someone living in Michigan.

Coming from Pittsburgh I know how true this is...with football.


Cleveland is within 140 miles of four NHL teams. The door closed on Cleveland and Cincinnati when it opened for Columbus. Columbus doesn't get that team if it isn't smack-dab in-between Cleveland and Cincinnati...to say nothing of Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Detroit all being within 2.5 hour drives. Those teams would raise hell if they attempted to put a team in Cleveland.


To say nothing of the fact that Cleveland's economy is in the ******* and it's already the smallest city with teams in 3/4 of the major sports leagues. Cincinnati is around the same size, but lacks any sort of hint that it would ever support a hockey team, lacks any interested owner, and any hope of getting an arena. Pittsburgh has about 300k more people in the metropolitan area, a new arena, and a strong economy and I'd be the first one to say adding an NBA team to that city would dilute the market to the point where the new team would have no hope of succeeding. How Cleveland would fare better than that would be just silly.


Indianapolis? Just wtf? It's the 34th largest metro city in the country in a state where hockey ranks somewhere between riding a tractor and looking at a tractor in popularity. Nothing has ever indicated they could support a team, they don't have a capable arena (Conseco Fieldhouse already shown in this thread), and no one in their right mind would move a team to ****ing Indianapolis when there are options that may actually succeed on the table. That's just a random choice.


I'd argue KC as well, but at least they have an arena.
 

LosVikingsDeChicago

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
289
12
After moving to Seattle, I don't know how well an NHL team would do here. Look at the support for the Sounders. They are broadcast on the local NBC affiliate. That's how lame this area is when it comes to sports. If there were an NHL team here, and they ran it like the Sharks then I can see it being successful. But to those who say it's a Mariners town, they get like 14k a night for games that's not the definition of a baseball town.
 

phxroadrunner

Registered User
Oct 9, 2007
156
1
Portland is a slightly different issue. I think that it was more possible that an NHL franchise could have been likely owned by Paul Allen and place in the Pacific Northwest, until the Lightning were able to lure Tod Leiweke away from the Seahawks. That was Paul Allen's right hand man, and could have easily helped with a hockey team in PNW.It wasn't lack of attendance nor ownership that caused the problem.

If Allen had really wanted a team then he should have instructed Leiweke to take the steps necessary to secure one. I'm sure the NHL would have been very accomadating.

When the big 1967 expansion was announced, it was only going to places that had other sports teams. That immediately ruled out both Seattle and Portland. There's a quote somewhere that Clarence Campbell told the Seattle Totems' ownership not to bother wasting their money.The main issue was the financing. The group awarded the conditional franchise ended up suing the league in an anti-trust suit that wasn't resolved until the mid-1980's.

Lack of financing = weak ownership

Let's not forget that between 1965 and 1974, the league in which the Totems and the Portland Buckaroos played, the Western Hockey League, lost members in San Francisco, Los Angeles and Vancouver to the NHL, and also lost Denver and Phoenix to the WHA. Professional hockey was growing leaps-and-bounds during the decade, and of course both the WHL players and league were getting raided, to both the Totems' and Bucakroos' detriment.But there was also the failed bid during 1990, where Ottawa and Tampa Bay were granted franchises. There was a group of investors for a Seattle franchise, but the only name on the application belonged to Ackerley, the son of the owner of the SuperSonics. Ackerley asked to present to the expansion committee alone, and withdrew the expansion application. Less than five years later, the Coliseum was renovated for basketball and the hockey configuration was gutted.

Hey, Seattle and Portland weren't the only clubs raided by the WHA. Phoenix lost the Go-Go Line of Larry Lund, Frank Hughes and Andre Hinse to Houston.


Of course, those same SuperSonics were sold by Ackerley about four years ago, and they now play in Oklahoma City, as the City of Seattle will not sink any more money into a new arena. That means if any of the other suburbs would like to house an NHL team, they just need the arena, an ownership group, and a team either by expansion or relocation.

From what I hear, the T-Birds are struggling at the gate because they moved to suburb.
 
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