NHL in 2025 (mod: more Canadian teams, fewer US sunbelt teams)

[Melrose Munch]

They do for the CFL in other cities.

That are not Ontario. Ottawa is worse than LA, Toronto we all know the story, Hamilton is poor. Even Montreal was not that good a CFL city either.

But the point is dronald and other should give a good reason why Toronto and Buffalo should make way for Hamilton.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's really no excuse for Ontario not supporting the CFL. Out west we support NHL and CFL immensely.

 

[Killion]

But the point is dronald and other should give a good reason why Toronto and Buffalo should make way for Hamilton.

We've given ya'll more than enough "reason", virtually since the time Barry Melrose was acquired by Imlach on Waivers' from Winnipeg in 1980. And it all went so horribly bad. Yet again.

 

[Melrose Munch]

There's really no excuse for Ontario not supporting the CFL. Out west we support NHL and CFL immensely.

Ontario has a love affair with the NFL. CFL is seen as on par with the AHL, Minor League Baseball and above University out here.

We've given ya'll more than enough "reason", virtually since the time Barry Melrose was acquired by Imlach on Waivers' from Winnipeg in 1980. And it all went so horribly bad. Yet again.

And we have given you lots of reasons why we would like to keep Buffalo around.

 

[Killion]

And we have given you lots of reasons why we would like to keep Buffalo around.

Ya, you & many others have. I have yet to read any convincing arguments that a Hamilton franchise would be the death of the Sabers, and firmly believe it would be a boon to that organizations bottom line. I respect the arguments to the contrary, but sorry, not buying it. I see it as little more (like MLSE) than posturing in order to extract maximum indemnification from anyone setting up shop in The Hammer. Much could be said in the same regard with respect to Hartfords ambitions; and the fact that Atlanta's ground seems torched for a good long time is borderline criminal.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

But c'mon here, all this talk of a Hamilton being the "death of the Sabres" is just about as hyperbolic & nonsensical as the majority of my posts on any given subject here on hf.

Now that the Sabres have Pegula, I actually agree. He's got very deep pockets and is very interested in promoting hockey in Pennsylvania and Western New York, so I don't see him being the type to up and leave Buffalo even if he was modestly in the red.

That being said, he is still a businessman and would almost assuredly be either against any potential cut to his bottom line or request a big indemnity along with Toronto for a team to set up shop in Hamilton.

Like I said in a previous post, I fully believe that Ontario could support two or three more teams. Heck, Montreal and Vancouver could probably support an additional team as well, though Vancouver would be a tad bit more iffy. So, with the addition of Quebec City, that means I'm saying that Canada could possibly support 13 teams (sorry Saskatchewan fans, not including you in this hypothetical as I don't think you can support a team), i.e. about the same thing that the article was suggesting in the first place. What I laughed about hysterically though was the notion that it would happen, as of those hypothetical relocation/expansion chances, every single one of them would be bitterly opposed by existing NHL governors except Quebec City.

I liken it to Chicago. There's no doubt in my mind that the metropolitan area could easily support a second NFL team again (a la my grandpa and dad's team, the Chicago Cardinals) and a second NBA team (there were even rumblings about the Hornets moving up here just a year or so ago, in fact) quite easily. Any chance that we'll get a second team in either league? No way in hell, as there are plenty of other cities that want a team and the owners of the Bulls and Bears would bitterly oppose a new team here. Same would go for Toronto, the GTA, Hamilton, Vancouver, and Montreal if anyone tried to put a team down in any of those areas.

Once again, it's never been an issue whether or not an area could support a team. It's about whether or not they'll be allowed the chance.

 

[Killion]

Now that the Sabres have Pegula, I actually agree. He's got very deep pockets and is very interested in promoting hockey in Pennsylvania and Western New York, so I don't see him being the type to up and leave Buffalo even if he was modestly in the red.

That being said, he is still a businessman and would almost assuredly be either against any potential cut to his bottom line or request a big indemnity along with Toronto for a team to set up shop in Hamilton.... Once again, it's never been an issue whether or not an area could support a team. It's about whether or not they'll be allowed the chance.

I think we pretty much agree on it all theoretically. Maybe by 2050 Vancouver for example could support a 2nd NHL franchise out in the Fraser Valley, but certainly not within the next 15-35yrs minimum, and even then, its a huge stretch IMO...

Looking at Chicago, a 2nd NHL team, forgetaboutit. The Wolves do well, did well, and thanks to Wirtz's blackouts & because hockeys so popular in the Windy City people had little choice but to watch AHL games to get their fix; it stuck, they got hooked, supported the team at the gate as well. Im sure Chicago could support a 2nd NFL team; but why?. Da Bears not enuff for ya?. Ditto on the Bulls'.

One major league team per city per sport should be more than ample, particularly for hockey, though in the cases of the NBA & MLB, far more advanced in terms of popularity with several examples of 2 team success stories, its doable. This isnt 1925 with a hodgepodge of Barnstormers in the Maroons & Habs in Montreal. Placing 2nd teams in cities in terms of the NHL quite specifically that already have them damages the markets IMO & denys other locations clubs, who then demand entrance, watering down the talent pool. This isnt MLB, the NFL or NBA were considering, its the NHL, forever on the cusp of breaking through with the exception of the rustbelt & Canadian teams; finally taking hold in California, Tennessee & elsewhere.

If Pegula & the Sabres can make a strong case for a "reasonable" one time indemnification fee, perhaps with a window of 3-5yrs on a contingency basis, then lets see it?. I'm sticking to my guns; a team in Hamilton, a local natural and immediate rival, a bridge to the Sabres & Leafs would be a boon & quite the reverse of the Armageddon the naysayers predict. Add Hamilton, QC, Seattle, Houston, Hartford and for Chrissake get Atlanta back in their & Id be a happy camper. Down the road, Birmingham & the Hampton Rhodes area.

 

[Mr Forever]

Put a team in the ****ing Yukon just for the hell of it

 

[Killion]

Put a team in the ****ing Yukon just for the hell of it

Damn straight. The Dawson City Nuggets. A promo DVD, produced by the National Film Board of Canada's available via the Mowat Institutes offices on Bay Street in Toronto. Just $29.95 including shipping & handling... by Dogsled.

 

[dronald]

And we have given you lots of reasons why we would like to keep Buffalo around.

If Hamilton is anything like Winnipeg in terms of ticket sales (Balsillie proved a Hamilton ticket drive would be an instant sell out, argueably faster than Winnipegs) Chances are the 19,000 (give or take) people in attendance at Copps would come from Toronto to St Catherines.

Remember, the stadium only fits a certain number of people and if the projected numbers both by Balsillie and the NHL are true then Buffalos waiting list for tickets would not dissappear.

 

[Scottrocks58*]

Damn straight. The Dawson City Nuggets. A promo DVD, produced by the National Film Board of Canada's available via the Mowat Institutes offices on Bay Street in Toronto. Just $29.95 including shipping & handling... by Dogsled.

Just what the NHL needs, Killion, another losing NHL team in the Yukon.

 

[Killion]

Just what the NHL needs, Killion, another losing NHL team in the Yukon.

I always stick up for the Underdogs, the Illegitimate.
The Dispossessed, Damned, Disenfranchised & Forsaken..

"He shouldve armed himself if he's gonna decorate his saloon with my friend".
Will Munny
The Unforgiven

 

[knorthern knight]

You got the population wrong again. And you live in the city? Check the latest data. The Capital Region is pushing 400,000.

I said I lived in Victoria. The number is from Wikipedia, and the data is a few years old. I take it you don't trust Wikipedia? Well in that case, howsabout we go to Victoria BC's own website...

Victoria at a glance:
Population: 78,000
Serves as the metropolitan core for a region of 345,000

 

[Melrose Munch]

If Hamilton is anything like Winnipeg in terms of ticket sales (Balsillie proved a Hamilton ticket drive would be an instant sell out, argueably faster than Winnipegs) Chances are the 19,000 (give or take) people in attendance at Copps would come from Toronto to St Catherines.

Remember, the stadium only fits a certain number of people and if the projected numbers both by Balsillie and the NHL are true then Buffalos waiting list for tickets would not dissappear.

You are assuming Hamilton and Toronto are separate. The GTHA has 6.5 million people. Just under the Bay Area and ahead of Houston, Dallas and Philadelphia. Hamilton will be more than Winnipeg+. It will be another Toronto or NYR within 5 years. You and I both know Hamilton will have a top payroll. Buffalo can't compete with that.

 

[dronald]

You are assuming Hamilton and Toronto are separate. The GTHA has 6.5 million people. Just under the Bay Area and ahead of Houston, Dallas and Philadelphia. Hamilton will be more than Winnipeg+. It will be another Toronto or NYR within 5 years. You and I both know Hamilton will have a top payroll. Buffalo can't compete with that.

I don't understand your point... The Red Wings can't compete with that, the Devils can't compete with that, hell the Flyers can't either but that won't stop people from going to see the team play.

You're saying Buffalo will fail because Hamilton will do great? I'm saying Buffalo will do fine because Hamilton will do great. There's too many people in the GTHA that will be willing to buy tickets leaving it impossible for people in the Niagara region to get them, thus they continue going to see the Sabres play and the waiting list remains long.

Edit- The point I was trying to make and still am is that because our fan base will reach from St Catherines to Toronto, people near Buffalo won't bother going all the way to Hamilton and paying top dollar to watch them play. It's basically the reason I don't go see the Leafs, too far of a drive for too much money.

 

[Killion]

I said I lived in Victoria.

Yep, I got that first time around. I dont think even the deep thinkers at the Mowat suggested Victoria as a possible NHL location for a franchise by 2025, but given enough time, when these reports hit the canvas, HARD; these brainiacs justifying themselves & their tenure, provided Vancouver Island isnt under 50 fathoms of water thanks to the promised shift of the tectonic plates and a 300' wall of water coming from Osaka, well, "why not Victoria"?. 1928 all over again and my names Lester F&%#ing Patrick. Mr. Edward Allen Gospel & Semolina Pilchard, sittin in an English Garden, waitin for the rain to come... I am the Eggman.

 

[DetRedWings109*]

There is only one more possible relocation site in Canada right now and thats QC. I dont see any significiant popuulation growths in Helifax or anywhere in New Brunswick. Or Saskatoon for that matter. Not to mention lack of corporate presence.

Hamilton isnt realistic because of MLSE.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I don't understand your point... The Red Wings can't compete with that, the Devils can't compete with that, hell the Flyers can't either but that won't stop people from going to see the team play.

You're saying Buffalo will fail because Hamilton will do great? I'm saying Buffalo will do fine because Hamilton will do great. There's too many people in the GTHA that will be willing to buy tickets leaving it impossible for people in the Niagara region to get them, thus they continue going to see the Sabres play and the waiting list remains long.

Edit- The point I was trying to make and still am is that because our fan base will reach from St Catherines to Toronto, people near Buffalo won't bother going all the way to Hamilton and paying top dollar to watch them play. It's basically the reason I don't go see the Leafs, too far of a drive for too much money.

My point is why would people wait at the border to see Buffalo when when they could drive NE to Hamilton with free parking? Buffalo will lose a lot of their fan base because of that.

 

[dronald]

My point is why would people wait at the border to see Buffalo when when they could drive NE to Hamilton with free parking? Buffalo will lose a lot of their fan base because of that.

Because they won't be able to get tickets to see hamilton play easily. If they were willing to drive to buffalo before and they can't get tickets in hamilton, why would they suddenly stop going?

Lol, and I love the arguement that Hamiltons fan base is so good, in fact too good that it would ruin other franchises.

 

[Killion]

You and I both know Hamilton will have a top payroll. Buffalo can't compete with that.

Im with dronald on this one. What exactly is your point?. Last time I checked, Hamilton was not nor ever actually wishes to come under the Umbrella of the GTA. Secondly, how do you know Hamilton will have a "top payroll" under current CBA Cap Restrictions?. Are you assuming that the franchise would be so wildly successful that they could charge top dollar for broadcasting rights, tickets and concessions, new media & apps' etc that its a no brainer?. This is in stark contrast to your earlier assertions. If its potentially going to be that successful why would you have a problem with it?. One more strong link in the chain makes for a better, far more robust NHL my friend, and yes, Buffalo will & would welcome that...

 

[Melrose Munch]

Because they won't be able to get tickets to see hamilton play easily. If they were willing to drive to buffalo before and they can't get tickets in hamilton, why would they suddenly stop going?

Lol, and I love the arguement that Hamiltons fan base is so good, in fact too good that it would ruin other franchises.

That's true. But even the Leafs have nose bleeds.

Im with dronald on this one. What exactly is your point?. Last time I checked, Hamilton was not nor ever actually wishes to come under the Umbrella of the GTA. Secondly, how do you know Hamilton will have a "top payroll" under current CBA Cap Restrictions?. Are you assuming that the franchise would be so wildly successful that they could charge top dollar for broadcasting rights, tickets and concessions, new media & apps' etc that its a no brainer?. This is in stark contrast to your earlier assertions. If its potentially going to be that successful why would you have a problem with it?. One more strong link in the chain makes for a better, far more robust NHL my friend, and yes, Buffalo will & would welcome that...

Well I live here. Don't get me wrong. I want a franchise here, I just don't see Bettman and the BOG going for it despite the evidence. The GTHA thing started in 2006 Killion. The province combined Hamilton and the Toronto area in order to streamline transit planning, urban planning and make Toronto look bigger basically.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

Well I live here.

Really? Well just recently you had your country listed as the USA and you have a picture of lady liberty as your profice pic? Just move back to the Hammer I guess?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Really? Well just recently you had your country listed as the USA and you have a picture of lady liberty as your profice pic? Just move back to the Hammer I guess?

I was at a funeral for my Mom's dad. He was an American, it was out of respect to him.

 

[blues10]

Damn straight. The Dawson City Nuggets. A promo DVD, produced by the National Film Board of Canada's available via the Mowat Institutes offices on Bay Street in Toronto. Just $29.95 including shipping & handling... by Dogsled.

I have a Dawson City Nuggets jersey and it looks fantastic.

The Dawson City Nuggets (also known as the Klondikes) were a hockey team from Dawson City, Yukon Territory, Canada that challenged the reigning champion Ottawa Hockey Club, aka "The Silver Seven," in January 1905, for the Stanley Cup.

I am not sure that it would be suitable for an NHL franchise.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Hardly imaginary, the NHL Constitution stipulates "within a 50 mile radius of the cities limits as the crow flies" as being the clubs territorial rights. Exactly how Broadcast Rights would be determined in this case & what kinds of indemnification they too would entail is yet another question mark, going east to the Leafs & SW to Buffalo.

50 miles of the extent of the city limits? That's quite an interesting variable.

Would that refer to any city/municipality whose limits fall within the radius of the aggrieved city, or would it refer to the arena/home venue itself falling within the radius? For example, if it's the latter, could a team possibly fall within the territorial rights radius if they first set up shop in a temporary arena outside of the 50-mile limit, then move to a permanent home within the radius?