NHL in 2025 (mod: more Canadian teams, fewer US sunbelt teams)

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

Grande Prairie?!



Try Saskatoon or Regina. Grande Prairie will never even have a WHL team.

The only city in Alberta that may have a NHL team in the future is Red Deer.According to the site they could have 300,000 in the next 40 years.This population would surpase both Saskatoon and Regina.

 

[Killion]

I think it is laughable to consider Saskatoon viable. At the moment, it is less than half the size of Winnipeg. The arena is located on the opposite end of town from the affluent area. There is simply not enough of a permanent corporate base there either, even compared to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Ottawa.

Also, Victoria is even more laughable. Despite high housing costs, there is virtually no high end jobs market there (it is mainly a military, government, tourism, retirement and university town). Driving into the city for a big event is freaking gridlock hell. Also during the winter, Cowichan (and by extension Nanaimo) is often inaccessible due to the shutdown of the Coquihalla Highway (seriously, it is a death trap at times). This city might be ok as a WHL town, but there is no way it could support a major league team.

For sure its laughable, yet this is the tripe the Mowat Center puts out. "Canada can support 12-13 teams".... Toronto X's 3, Saskatoon & or Halifax and another one in the Fraser Valley just east of Vancouver. I dont believe Victoria was included in their suggestions, simply mentioned here-in as a point of interest... oh & btw, thats the "Island Highway" on Vancouver Island; the Coquihalla runs through the interior of the province on the mainland. Had an Audi burst into flames on it one time, put it out with some tinnies of Fosters, a bit of Bushmans hanky juice, dropped a Clacker on the engine block & walked away.

And thats a Fair Dinkum mate...

 

[MAROONSRoad]

I think it is laughable to consider Saskatoon viable. At the moment, it is less than half the size of Winnipeg. The arena is located on the opposite end of town from the affluent area. There is simply not enough of a permanent corporate base there either, even compared to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Ottawa.

Also, Victoria is even more laughable. Despite high housing costs, there is virtually no high end jobs market there (it is mainly a military, government, tourism, retirement and university town). Driving into the city for a big event is freaking gridlock hell. Also during the winter, Cowichan (and by extension Nanaimo) is often inaccessible due to the shutdown of the Malahat Highway (seriously, it is a death trap at times). This city might be ok as a WHL town, but there is no way it could support a major league team.

The highway in winter is a good point in terms of accessibility (not so much your other points), but do you really believe Victoria is "even more laughable" than Saskatoon? I do realize we are projecting to 2025 here, but why is that?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

For sure its laughable, yet this is the tripe the Mowat Center puts out. "Canada can support 12-13 teams".... Toronto X's 3, Saskatoon & or Halifax and another one in the Fraser Valley just east of Vancouver. I dont believe Victoria was included in their suggestions, simply mentioned here-in as a point of interest... oh & btw, thats the "Island Highway" on Vancouver Island; the Coquihalla runs through the interior of the province on the mainland. Had an Audi burst into flames on it one time, put it out with some tinnies of Fosters, a bit of Bushmans hanky juice, dropped a Clacker on the engine block & walked away.

And thats a Fair dinkum mate...

I took it he meant the Malahat. You put your life on the line traveling the Malahat in certain types of weather.

I don't think Victoria is getting a team or is even on the radar for 2025 -- but if Victoria is laughable what about some of the current NHL teams' locations?

 

[Bjorn Le]

The only city in Alberta that may have a NHL team in the future is Red Deer.According to the site they could have 300,000 in the next 40 years.This population would surpase both Saskatoon and Regina.

In 40 years I guarentee the smallest NHL city will have well over a million people, by that time Saskatoon and Regina should both be 500,000+

 

[Killion]

I don't think Victoria is getting a team or is even on the radar for 2025 -- but if Victoria is laughable what about some of the current NHL teams' locations?

Such as where, which ones?. Can you be specific & why?.

If we were to pull out the scalpels', toss the Cap & Revenue sharing mechanisms, dispense with cost certainty & just let the strong survive, well Sir, we'd have ourselves one Sam Hill of a Hockey League, but about 18-20 markets SOL and unable to compete. As it stands, I dont particularly have an issue with the locations of any of the teams, and would like to see expansion to Seattle, Houston, Atlanta & Hamilton by 2025 at the outside, and earlier if possible. Long Island & the Coyotes could be on the move, so theres 2 of 4 possibles already, though I dont like the idea of either one of them relocating as you know.

 

[Lux Aurumque*]

The only city in Alberta that may have a NHL team in the future is Red Deer.According to the site they could have 300,000 in the next 40 years.This population would surpase both Saskatoon and Regina.

For Saskatoon, see Edmonton, pre-oil boom.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

1. How many times do i have to tell people on these boards that in order for the panthers to move a multi-bilionaire would have to pay several hundred million ALONE just to break our forty year lease with the bank atlantic center. This figure does not include the sale price of the team by itself.

2. Why cant canada have its own league im sure many sunbelt fans wouldnt mind not having to deal with canadians constantly wanting to move their teams.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

1. How many times do i have to tell people on these boards that in order for the panthers to move a multi-bilionaire would have to pay several hundred million ALONE just to break our forty year lease with the bank atlantic center. This figure does not include the sale price of the team by itself.

 

[dronald]

1. How many times do i have to tell people on these boards that in order for the panthers to move a multi-bilionaire would have to pay several hundred million ALONE just to break our forty year lease with the bank atlantic center. This figure does not include the sale price of the team by itself.

2. Why cant canada have its own league im sure many sunbelt fans wouldnt mind not having to deal with canadians constantly wanting to move their teams.

In regards to point 1. Thank you for bringing logic to these boards.

In regards to point 2. What happend to the logic?

 

[jigglysquishy]

Saskatoon has one of the fastest growing outskirts of the city in the country.The City itself though is not though anywhere near being the fastest growing in the country.

Do you understand what growth rate it?

Also, according to current growth rates here's what Canada will look like in 2020

Toronto: 6,904,000
Montreal: 4,285,000
Vancouver: 2,990,000
Calgary: 1,483,000
Ottawa: 1,461,000
Edmonton: 1,390,000
Winnipeg: 873,000
Quebec City: 847,000
Hamilton: 798,000
Kitchener: 550,000

That's the top 10. Here's 11-20.

London: 525,000
Halifax: 461,000
Oshawa: 418,000
St.Catherines: 410,000
Victoria: 401,000
Saskatoon: 348,000
Windsor: 320,000
Regina: 267,000
Sherbrooke: 220,000
St. John's: 218,000

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

My exact reaction to reading that article:



But seriously, a dozen+ teams in Canada? Are those guys freaking nuts?

I think Canada will have 8 teams in 2025 with the addition of Quebec City. Best case scenario (for Canadians) would be 8 as at most there would be one more Ontario team and that's it, and even I'd say that that's unlikely.

You don't feel that Toronto could host another team?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

There is room for two more teams in Canada - Quebec City and Southern Ontario. That is it. Canada maxes out at 9 teams and the two that will likely be coming to Canada are the Coyotes and Panthers.

Anyone who thinks there could be teams in Victoria, Saskatoon or Regina is crazy. Anyone that thinks Vancouver could support a second team is crazy as well.

Yup.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

Do you understand what growth rate it?

Also, according to current growth rates here's what Canada will look like in 2020

Toronto: 6,904,000
Montreal: 4,285,000
Vancouver: 2,990,000
Calgary: 1,483,000
Ottawa: 1,461,000
Edmonton: 1,390,000
Winnipeg: 873,000
Quebec City: 847,000
Hamilton: 798,000
Kitchener: 550,000

That's the top 10. Here's 11-20.

London: 525,000
Halifax: 461,000
Oshawa: 418,000
St.Catherines: 410,000
Victoria: 401,000
Saskatoon: 348,000
Windsor: 320,000
Regina: 267,000
Sherbrooke: 220,000
St. John's: 218,000

Yes but I do believe the growth rate can be misleading.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Move the Coyotes to QC, fold a non performing US market and sell an expansion team to Toronto and we can cap it at 9 for years to come.

It costs $400M to build an arena. QC already has one paid for. Toronto is the only other city where it would be worth it for a bunch of private investors to pay the costs.

As someone who lives near Hamilton, it is NOT an NHL city. They don't support the Ticats, the Grey Cup, the Bulldogs, the Brier or anything else that comes their way. No one will ever convince me that Hamilton would ever support an NHL team.

 

[dronald]

Move the Coyotes to QC, fold a non performing US market and sell an expansion team to Toronto and we can cap it at 9 for years to come.

It costs $400M to build an arena. QC already has one paid for. Toronto is the only other city where it would be worth it for a bunch of private investors to pay the costs.

As someone who lives near Hamilton, it is NOT an NHL city. They don't support the Ticats, the Grey Cup, the Bulldogs, the Brier or anything else that comes their way. No one will ever convince me that Hamilton would ever support an NHL team.

Toronto doesn't support the Argos or the Marlies. Perhaps we should fold the Leafs? (strange too because the Marlies are a Leaf affiliate and the Bulldogs are a Canadiens affiliate, at least we have an excuse, what's theirs?) I know what their excuse is, they have a real team, an NHL team.

Why do you argue when the NHL admitted it would be a top 5 most profited franchise. Why are you argueing with the people trying to keep a team out of Hamilton when they are willing to admit something like that?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Toronto doesn't support the Argos or the Marlies. Perhaps we should fold the Leafs? (strange too because the Marlies are a Leaf affiliate and the Bulldogs are a Canadiens affiliate, at least we have an excuse, what's theirs?) I know what their excuse is, they have a real team, an NHL team.

Why do you argue when the NHL admitted it would be a top 5 most profited franchise. Why are you argueing with the people trying to keep a team out of Hamilton when they are willing to admit something like that?

Hi Dronald,

I apologize. It is just...

My wife is from Hamilton. Her family is from Hamilton. I LOVE the city! I just don't see it supporting an NHL team. I just don't see the city supporting ANYTHING...

Why is it that we have not seen the Grey Cup in over a decade? Why was our attendance at the Brier so bad it scared Curling out of southern Ontario? Did you hear how many people went to the LFL game at Copps?

For what it is worth, I HOPE I am wrong. I hope we get one and support it - along with the Ticats.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Last point...

Hamilton could support an NHL team but a HUGE amount of the support would come from Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington and Niagara. And, if that is the case, why not put a team in any of those 4 cities instead?

Copps is a dump and hard to get to. If you are going to poor money into a new NHL arena, those 4 areas are better and more affluent than Hamilton.

Besides, it took Hamilton 40 years to build the "Linc" and it almost lost the PanAm funding for a CFL stadium because the City Council are a bunch of dummies so... like I said, I would prefer any of the other 4 locations over Hamilton.

Sell out the NEW Ivor Wynn and the Ticat games for the next couple years and Hamilton would get my support. Until then... "NO!!!"

 

[knorthern knight]

There is room for two more teams in Canada - Quebec City and Southern Ontario. That is it. Canada maxes out at 9 teams and the two that will likely be coming to Canada are the Coyotes and Panthers.

Me too.

Anyone who thinks there could be teams in Victoria, Saskatoon or Regina is crazy. Anyone that thinks Vancouver could support a second team is crazy as well.

I've lived in Victoria. It has some major problems as far as getting an NHL franchise...

• It's only 45 miles straight-line to Vancouver so we're talking a Hamilton-like territorial rights scenario.
• The metro population is 330,088, approx half of Winnipeg. Victoria can't support a team based on their own population.
• I've taken the Vancouver-Victoria ferry. It's one thing to catch the ferry from Victoria to Vancouver for BC Lions game in the summer.
  • The ferry trip during the winter can get rather sea-sickening due to winter storms
  • There is no way that you could take the ferry after work/school from Vancouver to Victoria, catch the hockey game, and be back in Vancouver in time to catch sufficient sleep for work/school the following morning.
  • Did I mention that the last ferry departure from Swartz Bay (Victoria end) is 9:00 PM during the winter?
• Speaking of winter, the Malahat Highway is occasionally closed during the winter. The mountainous scenery is great during the summer, but higher hilly terrain tends to get snow in winter.
• Where ya gonna stick a 15,000+ arena in Greater Victoria?
• What exactly will you do with the arena the other 320 dates a year?

 

[Killion]

It costs $400M to build an arena. QC already has one paid for. Toronto is the only other city where it would be worth it for a bunch of private investors to pay the costs.... As someone who lives near Hamilton, it is NOT an NHL city. They don't support the Ticats, the Grey Cup, the Bulldogs, the Brier or anything else that comes their way. No one will ever convince me that Hamilton would ever support an NHL team.

First of all, MLSE would never, and I do mean NEVER EVER permit a 2nd team to set up shop in Downsview, Mississauga, Vaughan, anywhere within the boundaries or radius of the GTA, and I completely agree with their stance. Hamilton on the other hand is just far enough away to be practicable without infringing on & hence devaluing the Maple Leaf brand & or MLSE business operations through the ACC with Concerts & Events etc.

Admittedly, Hamilton itself doesnt have much in the way of corporate "heft" however, from Burlington westward including Kitchener-Waterloo the landscape is rich. Consider as well Jim Balsillies' ill advised ticket campaign, taking deposits through Ticketmaster on Seasons Tickets for the Hamilton Predators, selling 7200 ducats in the first day. Compare that to Winnipegs 4000 first day total. If you cant see the facts staring you in the face that Hamiltons a no-brainer, then I suggest you simply cant see the forest for the tree's and its time you called in some Arborists to remove the branches that are clearly blocking what could be your wonderful new viewpoint & perspective.

 

[afrobomber11]

Weyburn and Estevan could double, but Saskatoon wouldn't. It's much easier for small cities to grow quickly. And even on that scale those kind of harsh increases means the infrastructure can't keep up, housing shortages appear, rents skyrocket and overall quality of life plummets.

But maybe we'll see new WHL markets, with the Estevan Bruins and Weyburn Red Wings moving up a tier. There would be some great rivalries with the Pats and Warriors, and to a lesser extent, the Blades, Broncos and Raiders. Even more junior development in SK would be great for hockey globally, while an NHL team in the flatlands would compete with all that to everyone's ultimate detriment.

i would never wanna see the bruins and wings leave the sj, given the history, but realistically, being as close to regina as they are, people will go to the games, its like anything else, regina may not have the population but with the outer cities, you bet your ass regina has the population and has everything to gain

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

First of all, MLSE would never, and I do mean NEVER EVER permit a 2nd team to set up shop in Downsview, Mississauga, Vaughan, anywhere within the boundaries or radius of the GTA, and I completely agree with their stance.

First, why do you support their stance?

Second, just for the sake of argument...

Suppose the NHL folded a faltering southern team and offered an expansion franchise, for $400M, in the Toronto area (Markham or Vaughan or some location north of Toronto)?

Then they gave the Leafs $120 million and $10M to every other team.

Do you think the Leafs would turn down that kind of money?

Third, are you from Ireland?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

First of all, MLSE would never, and I do mean NEVER EVER permit a 2nd team to set up shop in Downsview, Mississauga, Vaughan, anywhere within the boundaries or radius of the GTA, and I completely agree with their stance. Hamilton on the other hand is just far enough away to be practicable without infringing on & hence devaluing the Maple Leaf brand & or MLSE business operations through the ACC with Concerts & Events etc.

Admittedly, Hamilton itself doesnt have much in the way of corporate "heft" however, from Burlington westward including Kitchener-Waterloo the landscape is rich. Consider as well Jim Balsillies' ill advised ticket campaign, taking deposits through Ticketmaster on Seasons Tickets for the Hamilton Predators, selling 7200 ducats in the first day. Compare that to Winnipegs 4000 first day total. If you cant see the facts staring you in the face that Hamiltons a no-brainer, then I suggest you simply cant see the forest for the tree's and its time you called in some Arborists to remove the branches that are clearly blocking what could be your wonderful new viewpoint & perspective.

Fair enough. I agree a Southern Ontario team would print money. I guess I just have an issue with it being Hamilton.

As a Ticat season ticket holder I find it a VERY frustrating city. Maybe it is clouding my judgement.

 

[Killion]

First, why do you support their stance?
Second, just for the sake of argument...

Suppose the NHL folded a faltering southern team and offered an expansion franchise, for $400M, in the Toronto area (Markham or Vaughan or some location north of Toronto)? Then they gave the Leafs $120 million and $10M to every other team.Do you think the Leafs would turn down that kind of money?

Third, are you from Ireland?

The very thought of a second NHL franchise in the GTA, be it Vaughan or Markham (both of which will eventually be swallowed up by the spreading Megalopolis of the GTA) is quite simply Heresy. Then theres the money involved. $125M in indemnification is about 5X's less than what you would be having to pay.

By the time you got finished buying the land, putting up the building, the infrastructure, the requisit surrounding developments of condos, retail & commercial space, paid the NHL a relo or expansion fee, bought yourself a team, youd be so far behind the 8Ball that youd be guaranteed a Bankruptcy even with sell outs within a decade.

How do you go about compensating MLSE for basically going head-head with the ACC for Concerts & Events?. Why does Toronto need a 2nd team when for generations just ones been more than enough & should be enough for any city, be it Toronto, NYC, LA or Philly, Boston, Detroit or Chicago?. No amount of money would suffice, but if you were coming at it from Hamilton?. Sure. Then a $100M in the jeans if you please & good luck with that. Oh, and btw, we get the concessions and management contract at Copps for the next 25yrs as well.

Third; ya, born there but grew up in Toronto...

 

[White Pine]

First of all, MLSE would never, and I do mean NEVER EVER permit a 2nd team to set up shop in Downsview, Mississauga, Vaughan, anywhere within the boundaries or radius of the GTA, and I completely agree with their stance. Hamilton on the other hand is just far enough away to be practicable without infringing on & hence devaluing the Maple Leaf brand & or MLSE business operations through the ACC with Concerts & Events etc.

Admittedly, Hamilton itself doesnt have much in the way of corporate "heft" however, from Burlington westward including Kitchener-Waterloo the landscape is rich. Consider as well Jim Balsillies' ill advised ticket campaign, taking deposits through Ticketmaster on Seasons Tickets for the Hamilton Predators, selling 7200 ducats in the first day. Compare that to Winnipegs 4000 first day total. If you cant see the facts staring you in the face that Hamiltons a no-brainer, then I suggest you simply cant see the forest for the tree's and its time you called in some Arborists to remove the branches that are clearly blocking what could be your wonderful new viewpoint & perspective.

Don't forget, winnipeg's first few days were only open to season ticket holders from the Moose. as soon as it was opened up to the general public, they got the remaining 5,000 (I think) in a few minutes (maybe even one).