NHL in 2025 (mod: more Canadian teams, fewer US sunbelt teams)

[vezna*]

if a media mogul buys the leafs, they'd be more inclined to having another team in southern ontario

honestly, i don't care about nhl in the US. more canadian teams, the better for canadians

 

[White Pine]

I can't see there being more than 8 teams in Canada, maybe 9 with Hamilton.

 

[White Pine]

Also a few notes:

Toronto should have two teams MAX. Any more trivializes the league. Personally I'm a fan of one team per city.
I don't think Saskatchewan has enough people to support a team, especially due to the 41 home dates. Winnipeg barely has enough, IMO.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I agree, but then again, I dont see the NHL ever expanding to Europe...



Dont think so. Hamilton is far better placed geographically, has an airport, convenient to Mississauga/Burlington and K/W-Guelph.

It's also in Buffalos territory and regardless of how times have changed is still a manufacturing based economy. By 2025 Waterloos airport will be much larger, size wise should be near Hamiltons numbers (If KW-Cambridge amalgamates). Better location if there's an arena here.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Saskatchewan has the highest youth hockey involvement per capita in the world. Per capita, we are the hockey mecca.

That being said, we won't be able to support an NHL franchise for at least another 30 years.

Saskatoon is the fastest growing metro in Canada, but at 275,000 its only a third of the smallest NHL city (Winnipeg) and a quarter of the size of the second smallest NHL city (Edmonton).

The NHL should focus on Southern Ontario, Quebec and stabilizing existing franchises before looking at Saskatchewan.

 

[Nuclear SUV]

That being said, we won't be able to support an NHL franchise for at least another 30 years.

.

If what I am reading about the energy deposits in the area are true, you maybe a little conservative in your estimates. The area could be witnessing a very huge boom in the near future. If the Provincial govt. is willing to assist (make the place business and investment friendly), one or both of the larger cities of Saskatchewan could potentially grow into significant market.

 

[jigglysquishy]

As a chemical engineer, you're reading wrong.

The western oil boom has passed. Its all about renewables now.

And Saskatoon is the fastest growing city in the country. Regina is the third. There really is no way for them to grow any fast.

 

[dronald]

It's also in Buffalos territory and regardless of how times have changed is still a manufacturing based economy. By 2025 Waterloos airport will be much larger, size wise should be near Hamiltons numbers (If KW-Cambridge amalgamates). Better location if there's an arena here.

Not really.

 

[Nuclear SUV]

As a chemical engineer, you're reading wrong.

The western oil boom has passed. Its all about renewables now.

Williston, ND has doubled in population in a year, yet the oil boom has passed? Renewables aren't economically viable at the present time.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Not really.

Hamilton is definitely in Buffalos territory. That means a team there would have to pay money to both Toronto and Buffalo, in KW they would only have to pay money to Toronto. Thats one of the reasons people have said Hamilton will never get a team, because the Sabres will ***** and scream and make a huge deal out of it, moreso than even the Leafs.

 

[dronald]

Hamilton is definitely in Buffalos territory. That means a team there would have to pay money to both Toronto and Buffalo, in KW they would only have to pay money to Toronto. Thats one of the reasons people have said Hamilton will never get a team, because the Sabres will ***** and scream and make a huge deal out of it, moreso than even the Leafs.

Just because Buffalo would cry does not mean Hamilton is constitutionally in their territory. They may be able to argue that Hamilton would screw up their profits, but that's not what I'm talking about. Buffalo is out of Hamiltons radius, Toronto however is not.

I've been down this road on HF many times, it all comes down to the same thing and that is speculation. If Hamilton was in the running again and actually made it past the whole, "do we trust the guy and is their stadium good enough" thing we would then have to deal with Buffalo and Toronto. It has never gotten that far however.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Just because Buffalo would cry does not mean Hamilton is constitutionally in their territory. They may be able to argue that Hamilton would screw up their profits, but that's not what I'm talking about. Buffalo is out of Hamiltons radius, Toronto however is not.

I've been down this road on HF many times, it all comes down to the same thing and that is speculation. If Hamilton was in the running again and actually made it past the whole, "do we trust the guy and is their stadium good enough" thing we would then have to deal with Buffalo and Toronto. It has never gotten that far however.

How is Hamilton not in Buffalos territory? It's about the same driving distance, maybe less to Buffalo as it is to Toronto. When they were talking about Hamilton, Buffalo was talked about as a team they would have to pay to move there. Regardless, it's still a major hurdle. KW wouldn't have to deal with that problem, not to mention other benefits.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Southern Ontario could support more than 1 additional team. It could easily support 3 or 4 imo. Anyone that thinks differently is crazy. There are 12 millions Canadians living in that area, many of which are hockey fans. I'll give 1 team per 3 or 4 million Canadians in that area.

Any idea what the population of Vancouver Island is? I tell you -- it is just under 800,000. It should be about 1 million in the time frame discussed (2025). The vast majority of the population lives in the 100 km area stretching from Victoria to Nanaimo. In other words, the area has a similar population to Edmonton.

As I said, it is not likely that Canada will get 12 teams and that is for a variety of different factors which I'm not going to bother pointing out. However, if there was a will to do it, I believe 12 teams would be easy, especially if we are talking 14 years to do it.

You're alleging that the Victoria area is as poplulous as the Edmonton area? Seriously? Victoria has a population of 330,000. Add the 100km driving disatance to Nanaimo and you might have 450,000-500,000 within an hour drive. Edmonton has more than double that amount (1.1 million) within a 20 minute drive of Rexall and a much more affluent population that buys hockey tickets. Corporate support is good as well. Does Victoria even have an corporate head offices of any signifcant companies? Would it be the called the BC Government arena?

A team on Vancouver Island would fail miserably.

 

[dronald]

How is Hamilton not in Buffalos territory? It's about the same driving distance, maybe less to Buffalo as it is to Toronto. When they were talking about Hamilton, Buffalo was talked about as a team they would have to pay to move there. Regardless, it's still a major hurdle. KW wouldn't have to deal with that problem, not to mention other benefits.

Buffalo is 78 miles from Hamilton, Toronto is within Hamiltons fifty mile radius. Regardless, Burke brought in Detroit and other teams in the east that Hamilton would, "harm" so again, speculation.

I'm not denying it would be a hurdle, there are many hurdles when discussing Hamilton. But in the end it would be a profitable franchise so in theory there should be a team there.

 

[Killion]

It's also in Buffalos territory and regardless of how times have changed is still a manufacturing based economy. By 2025 Waterloos airport will be much larger, size wise should be near Hamiltons numbers (If KW-Cambridge amalgamates). Better location if there's an arena here.

Ok, I see your point. Your thinkin down the road a ways. Not meaning to be argumentitive, but I still say Hamiltons a superior location due to its closer proximity to Toronto, however, how about a 3rd team for KW/Cambridge?. if indeed it does continue its growth & development, which it clearly will barring an apocalyptic meltdown, I could see how that'd be extremely viable!.

Hamilton is definitely in Buffalos territory. That means a team there would have to pay money to both Toronto and Buffalo, in KW they would only have to pay money to Toronto. Thats one of the reasons people have said Hamilton will never get a team, because the Sabres will ***** and scream and make a huge deal out of it, moreso than even the Leafs.

Sorry, me again. Regardless of whether its Hamilton or KW, you can bet the Sabres'll be looking for indemnification. According to published reports, app. 15% of their ST's holders are Canadian based, and in the past they have feared a loss in those sales should a team be planted in the Hamilton, KW-London corridor. As they have a fairly lengthy waiting list (not always but today they do) for ST's Id have to call that bit of Poppinjay Poppycock.

They have at no time in their 41yr history marketed themselves to fans in S.O., any claim on the market tenuous & really quite absurd. But OK, this is the NHL, you scratch my back...so in the best traditions of Cap'n Edward (BlackBeard) Teach, give them their bags of gold me Heartys'.... arrrr.

When the Colorado Rockies sailed to the Jersey Shores, they paid the Rangers, Islanders & Flyers indemnification for territorial & broadcasting infringements, so Im sure things could easily be worked out lets say between Toronto & Hamilton, KW; Buffalo & Hamilton, Buffalo & Kitchener Waterloo Cambridge Guelph. Meanwhile, in addition to working on the amalgamation, airport & arena, yer gonna hafta come up with a new name for this coming Megalopolis. That ones not gonna fit on a jersey.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

You're alleging that the Victoria area is as poplulous as the Edmonton area? Seriously? Victoria has a population of 330,000. Add the 100km driving disatance to Nanaimo and you might have 450,000-500,000 within an hour drive. Edmonton has more than double that amount (1.1 million) within a 20 minute drive of Rexall and a much more affluent population that buys hockey tickets. Corporate support is good as well. Does Victoria even have an corporate head offices of any signifcant companies? Would it be the called the BC Government arena?

A team on Vancouver Island would fail miserably.

Your figures are wrong -- most likely outdated. The Capital Region (i.e., Victoria metro) has 380,000 people as of 2011 and that doesn't include the nearby Cowichan Valley -- add another 100K or so.

What I actually said is that Vancouver Island has almost 800,000 people and most of them live in the 100 km strip of land on the east coast of the island from Victoria to Nanaimo. Since that is a fast growing region of the country I also speculated it could have around 1 million people by the year 2025, which would be similar to the population of Edmonton. Vancouver Island also has a huge transient population (.i.e, tourist and retired people who spend part of the year there) that is not included in the census. Over 3 million people visit Victoria alone each year - that's 250,000 people per month. Victoria is also 20 minutes by plane or 1.2 hr by ferry from metro Vancouver.

Edmonton doesn't exactly have a huge corporate sector. It doesn't have the surrounding population or visitors that Victoria does. And it's a government town much like Victoria.

For the record, I don't think the NHL would place a team on Vancouver Island for a variety of reasons, but that does not mean it is out of the question that the area could support an NHL team. It was on my list of where an 11th or 12th team could conceivably be located if the goal was to have 12 teams in Canada. I feel the area is far too attached to the Canucks and, besides, the NHL wouldn't have any compelling reason to go there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Buffalo is 78 miles from Hamilton, Toronto is within Hamiltons fifty mile radius. Regardless, Burke brought in Detroit and other teams in the east that Hamilton would, "harm" so again, speculation.

I'm not denying it would be a hurdle, there are many hurdles when discussing Hamilton. But in the end it would be a profitable franchise so in theory there should be a team there.

From my understanding, if Hamilton's 50 mile bubble infringes on Buffalo's 50 mile bubble, they're infringing on Buffalo's territory.

 

[blues10]

Also a few notes:

Toronto should have two teams MAX. Any more trivializes the league. Personally I'm a fan of one team per city.
I don't think Saskatchewan has enough people to support a team, especially due to the 41 home dates. Winnipeg barely has enough, IMO.

Yup, just sqeeked by on that drive to 13 000 and only 8000 on the wait list. What the heck was the NHL thinking.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Yup, just sqeeked by on that drive to 13 000 and only 8000 on the wait list. What the heck was the NHL thinking.

Hey, "barely has enough" is huge progress. That means "it has enough"; it's good to go. Go back a few years on these same boards and it was "Winnipeg cannot support an NHL team. People that believe otherwise are delusional." Progress.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I don't think Saskatchewan has enough people to support a team, especially due to the 41 home dates. Winnipeg barely has enough, IMO.

Winnipeg's building is essentially sold out 5 years forward, the luxury suites are sold out 10 years forward. There is a waiting list of 8,000 individual accounts that are paying annually for the privilege of hopefully purchasing season tickets someday.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Priciest-NHL-tickets-already-sold-out-123156823.html

I'd say that our market size has proven more than suitable.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

As a chemical engineer, you're reading wrong.

The western oil boom has passed. Its all about renewables now.

And Saskatoon is the fastest growing city in the country. Regina is the third. There really is no way for them to grow any fast.

Saskatoon is no where near being the fastest growing city in the country.Regina is not growing that fast either compared to other cities.The Population of the city of Saskatoon has been going up by 5,000 a year,while the city of Calgary has being growing by around 20,000 a year.

 

[Killion]

Saskatoon is no where near being the fastest growing city in the country.Regina is not growing that fast either compared to other cities.The Population of the city of Saskatoon has been going up by 5,000 a year,while the city of Calgary has being growing by around 20,000 a year.

Well, according to an article that appeared in the National Post on July 20th, 2011; Saskatoon is the fastest growing municipality by population in Canada followed by Vancouver in 2nd place, Regina in 3rd, Toronto in 4th.

 

[badinsults]

I think it is laughable to consider Saskatoon viable. At the moment, it is less than half the size of Winnipeg. The arena is located on the opposite end of town from the affluent area. There is simply not enough of a permanent corporate base there either, even compared to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Ottawa.

Also, Victoria is even more laughable. Despite high housing costs, there is virtually no high end jobs market there (it is mainly a military, government, tourism, retirement and university town). Driving into the city for a big event is freaking gridlock hell. Also during the winter, Cowichan (and by extension Nanaimo) is often inaccessible due to the shutdown of the Malahat Highway (seriously, it is a death trap at times). This city might be ok as a WHL town, but there is no way it could support a major league team.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

Well, according to an article that appeared in the National Post on July 20th, 2011; Saskatoon is the fastest growing municipality by population in Canada followed by Vancouver in 2nd place, Regina in 3rd, Toronto in 4th.

Saskatoon has one of the fastest growing outskirts of the city in the country.The City itself though is not though anywhere near being the fastest growing in the country.

 

[Lux Aurumque*]

NHL 2025:

Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa, Boston, NYR, Brooklyn, New Jersey, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Toronto, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Winnipeg, Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton, Grande Prairie, Vancouver, Seattle, Salt Lake City, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim

Grande Prairie?!



Try Saskatoon or Regina. Grande Prairie will never even have a WHL team.