NHL II - It will take 5 years to replace top 100 NHL players-rest are interchangable

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by eye, Jan 30, 2005.

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  1. eye

    eye Registered User

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    If it happens that owners start up a new league titled NHL II then IMO it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL. The top 100 or so players would be replaced by the likes of youngsters like Spezza, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, Richards, Phoenuf, Bergeron, Malkin, Dube, Pouliot, Staal, Nash and dozens of other good young players. The next 1300 top hockey players in the world are pretty much interchangable. The game actually might be better off for it because skilled players or undersized players may actually bring more entertainment to the game than countless one dimensional grinder types that dominate the NHL right now.

    So no impasse needed. Just a new league with pretty much the same owners and venues all operating under a different set of economic rules. Bring it on. I'm tired of the attitude of many current NHL stars and especially their leadership. Time to refresh the league with a new vision and a new breed of players. :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:
     
  2. Jaysfanatic*

    Jaysfanatic* Guest

    yeah.....NHL II that's what they'll call it.......?
     
  3. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    You sound so welcoming of declaring impasse and shutting out most of the current NHL players. This is the worst idea for the NHL, or anyone. Talk about a PR disaster, you tell the best athletes in the world they can't play in your league. So for now on, you can't sell the game as the best in the world because you have half of the guys in Russia and Sweden anyhow.

    Plus, keep in mind the NHL is hardly seen overseas as is, and the elite leagues take major precedence over the NHL there. So what do you want to do? You want to give those Russians the players they have been missing out on?
     
  4. kenabnrmal

    kenabnrmal Registered User

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    The next 1300 players are interchangeable after the top 100? I knew I rarely agreed with your view on the business of hockey, but as a fellow Yotes fan (you are that, right?) I thought you knew hockey...THOUGHT.
     
  5. eye

    eye Registered User

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    As a fellow Yotes fan you know that I go to hockey games in the AHL, CHL and the NCAA. There might be a slight drop off in overall talent in a NHL II but to think otherwise is shortsighted IMO. I think many fans over-rate many NHL players. Many of these guys just fill a role or a big and can check. You could take over half of the players in the AHL, put them along side better players and the average fan won't notice any difference. There are many players in the NHL that were teammates of CHL, NCAA, AHL or even ECHL or Europeon players and they were not as talented as them at a younger age. Many only made the NHL because they were able to excel at an assigned role or simply had a size advantage.

    The drop off in overall talent would be made up for in pure entertainment. Mistakes lead to entertainment and odd man rushes and scoring chances. The NHL is loaded with checker type players that don't allow talent and stars to shine. This could be the best thing to happen to hockey and this might be the silver lining in a very dark cloud. Keep an open mind.

    I also used to go to MLB games before the 94 stike but have not bought a ticket for MLB since the strike and likely never will. If these current players don't come to grips with the reality of the situation I don't think I will be alone in spending my hard earned money on some other form of entertainment instead of on this breed of NHL players. I used to think NHL players were different and were special athletes. My opinion is quickly changing.
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Of all the dumb comments you've made on this board in recent months, this one takes the cake. :dunce: :dunce:
     
  7. eye

    eye Registered User

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    Do me a favour. Post your Flyers lineup minus your top 6 or 7 players and then compare your top prospects to the rest of your lineup. Is there much of a difference? I would think many of your top prospects have a lot more promise than your remaining roster.

    Open your eyes and your mindset!
     
  8. ComrieFanatic

    ComrieFanatic Registered User

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    i heard that players in the PA can cross the picket line and play in a new NHL if they chose to, meaning that not all the top players would be excluded from it
     
  9. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    First of all you said minues the top 100 players in the NHL, of which the Flyers might have 3 or 4. Just for arguments sake we'll say that Roenick, Johnsson, Gagne, Primeau and Esche are top 100 players.

    You said that we'll be replacing them as well, correct ??? With who ???

    The Flyers would then be replacing:

    Handzus
    Zhamnov (assuming he re-signs)
    Sharp
    Kapanen
    Brashear
    Somik
    Amonte
    LeClair
    Fedoruk
    Markov
    Desjardins
    Ragnarsson
    Pitkanen
    Malakhov/Seidenberg
    Niittymaki

    with

    Jeff Carter
    Mike Richards
    R.J. Umberger
    Ben Eager
    Rejean Beauchemin
    Neil Little
    Alex Picard
    Randy Jones
    Roario Ruggeri
    John Sim
    Ryan Ready
    Mark Murphy
    Freddy Meyer

    etc. etc.


    Boy I can't wait to pay $45 a night to see that team. :cry:
     
  10. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    And it takes a nanosecond to "replace" an ignorant, ungrateful fan with another. :speechles

    All "interchangeable".
     
  11. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    What exactly should NHL fans be 'grateful' for? That the owners gladly take our money, in ever-increasing amounts, while placing a continually lesser product on the ice? That players take us - and the lifestyles we help provide them - totally for granted? Yep, we fans have a lot to be thankful for.

    As to replacing fans ... the NHL needs to hold on to every fan its got. You may not have noticed this, but in most places people aren't on long waiting lists for season tickets, carving out money in their budget to go to a game or even making time in their days to watch a game on TV. The tought that fans are easily replaceable is laughable.
     
  12. MmmBacon

    MmmBacon Registered User

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    "Only" five years to rebuild? After five years without elite players, NHL revenues would be about the same as my car payment.
     
  13. Marconius

    Marconius Registered User

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    I agree with you %100. :handclap: I have serious concerns about the business of starting NHL II, but the tealent level should not be a concern.
     
  14. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2005
  15. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Fair enough.
    For the record, I've never called the players greedy (though the label probably fits for some individual players) nor have I called them easily replaceable. I don't agree with those who do think they're easily replaceable.

    Unfortunately, what we're going to find out soon enough is that for many fans hockey is replaceable as a form of entertainment.
     
  16. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Racki - And, for the record, I believe strongly that the players must make the majority of concessions in this CBA.

    Ultimately, they will, I'm guessing.

    ***

    I know this comment will win me no popularity contests :joker: , but frankly, the actions/comments of neither side in this CBA have surprised me, having lived through previous sports labor negotiations. In actuality, the comments eminating from the NHLPA and Bettman/ownership has been relatively tame!

    What is somewhat startling, and very depressing, is the level of anger and hatred (and, in some cases, blatant hypocrisy) of some fans. Regardless of one's POV, one's "side". (Not excusing one's self here. ;) )

    Overall, it has not been a pretty sight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2005
  17. txomisc

    txomisc Registered User

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    Well this anger and hatred has been building up for several years now. When was it we started to realize there was a very good chance that we would hit this problem? Probably at least 2 years ago. People on both sides see that not enough is being done to fix the problem. Hell, you've got people who absolutely love the sport. This potential lost season really has alot of fans feeling totally betrayed. We have been betrayed, by both sides in this. That is where the hatred and the venom comes from.
     
  18. kenabnrmal

    kenabnrmal Registered User

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    I've been following the AHL and SPHL very closely. The other leagues casually. I had season tickets for the Jets while they were still in Winnipeg, and I've been following the NHL as close as someone could living in a non-NHL city since. So I'm reasonably familiar with the talent levels of each particular league.

    You're right in one sense. The NHL II would result in many more errors than you saw in the NHL, and that would create more odd-man opportunities. And yes, the average non-hockey fan would find this exciting. Having spent a good deal of time in the Southern US with non-hockey fans, for the most part they see the fights, the hitting, the skating (which for the most part they couldn't possibly imagine doing while smacking a puck around), and the sounds...and if thats up their ally, they are entertained. Having the best in the world likely wouldn't make much difference to the average non-hockey fan.

    HOWEVER, when the rest of us who do follow the sport see those errors that lead to "exciting odd-man rushes", we'll wonder what the hell the guy made the mistake for, and why we made the mistake of paying top dollar to see it. The fact of the matter is, NHLers ARE special athletes. Its a shame your hate for their position in these negotiations are blinding you to that. The fourth liners are perhaps replaceable with the top AHL talent. And yes, there is always the diamond in the rough that sneaks through from the lower leagues. But, don't delude yourself into thinking that they are easily replaceable. Think the fans are overrating NHLers? What about the scores of coaches and scouts who's job it is to differentiate between NHL talent and minor-league talent? Are they overrating NHLers as well?

    You're more than entitled to have this opinion, and maybe others share it. I just can't imagine how anyone who followed these various levels of hockey closely could possibly agree.

    I love minor league hockey. just at a minor hockey league price.
     
  19. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    Just one SLIGHT problem - it would be illegal under labour laws.
     
  20. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    While I don't think a new league is a possibility, let's put to rest the idea that players are not replaceable. With the exception of 2 players in the last 20 years, realistically,the league has no one who puts butts in the seats simply because he's coming to town. The Naslunds, Yzermans and Sakics etc. are great players, but it's the teams the majority of fans come to see. When Montreal scores a goal it is secondary who put the puck in, only that they scored really matters. Hockey will be about the team and an ugly goal counts as much as a pretty goal. A game with a bunch of no names can be just as exciting as watching the "elite". Check out the minors and Junior leagues and you'll see it to be true. Of course I wouldn't pay more than $15 to see any team play.
     
  21. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Which is 100% totally cool, and the only way in which a fan can truly expresses his/her "rights"; the pocketbook.

    I will refer, however, to the old saying, "you get what you pay for." Fifteen-dollar-a-ticket hockey, no doubt, can be entertaining. It's not the NHL. (I know we may disagree here, based on your post; that too, is cool.)

    Just because you masquerade a minor leaguer on NHL ice (or some 17 year old kid for that matter) does not him an NHLer.

    But, again, you apparently back up your words with actions, which is commendable. :handclap: . One sees hypocrisy in fans who ceaselessly rip NHLers, as people, union members and as athletes ("they are easily replaceable!")...and then bemoan the fact that they aren't playing. With rare exception, these fickle fans will go right back to paying to watch "the bums" they are currently condemning.

    ***

    No doubt, and to a degree, IMO, justified. However, in some cases, emotion has won over the day, as we see dailiy on this board. As in the "notion" of this thread.

    KenA put it perfectly, IMO:

    "The fact of the matter is, NHLers ARE special athletes. Its a shame your hate for their position in these negotiations are blinding you to that."

    Not directing that to you txomisc, but you must concede that to be the case with some. Argue the merits of the next CBA, fine. But slandering the talents of these guys - especially when in the next breath one is whining about not having any NHL hockey - is unseemingly, innaccurate and hypocritical.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2005
  22. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Don't tell that to eye ' if he thought it up, it must be realistic and fair.
     
  23. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    We don't own the right to Jon Sim, John. We'd have to make a trade with Phoenix for him.
     
  24. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    I agree you get what you pay for. Watching an NHL hockey game at an arena was no more exciting than watching my WHL team battle a rival team. For me, the only exception was watching the Habs play for the first time in Calgary. I was able to sit behind the bench for the pre-game skate and watch the jerseys flying around, then I was banished to the rafters. The game itself was a blur. I soured on live NHL games after that. I'll go when it's affordable.
     
  25. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Why do you watch the NHL if you think everyone is overrated. They can't be too bad if youn watch it. Go ahead and waste money on season tickets for the replacement players. That is just stupid. If you really want to watch replacement players so bad go watch the ECHL.
     
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