NHL II - It will take 5 years to replace top 100 NHL players-rest are interchangable

[eye]

If it happens that owners start up a new league titled NHL II then IMO it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL. The top 100 or so players would be replaced by the likes of youngsters like Spezza, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, Richards, Phoenuf, Bergeron, Malkin, Dube, Pouliot, Staal, Nash and dozens of other good young players. The next 1300 top hockey players in the world are pretty much interchangable. The game actually might be better off for it because skilled players or undersized players may actually bring more entertainment to the game than countless one dimensional grinder types that dominate the NHL right now.

So no impasse needed. Just a new league with pretty much the same owners and venues all operating under a different set of economic rules. Bring it on. I'm tired of the attitude of many current NHL stars and especially their leadership. Time to refresh the league with a new vision and a new breed of players.

Click to read more...

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

yeah.....NHL II that's what they'll call it.......?

 

[futurcorerock]

You sound so welcoming of declaring impasse and shutting out most of the current NHL players. This is the worst idea for the NHL, or anyone. Talk about a PR disaster, you tell the best athletes in the world they can't play in your league. So for now on, you can't sell the game as the best in the world because you have half of the guys in Russia and Sweden anyhow.

Plus, keep in mind the NHL is hardly seen overseas as is, and the elite leagues take major precedence over the NHL there. So what do you want to do? You want to give those Russians the players they have been missing out on?

 

[kenabnrmal]

The next 1300 players are interchangeable after the top 100? I knew I rarely agreed with your view on the business of hockey, but as a fellow Yotes fan (you are that, right?) I thought you knew hockey...THOUGHT.

 

[eye]

The next 1300 players are interchangeable after the top 100? I knew I rarely agreed with your view on the business of hockey, but as a fellow Yotes fan (you are that, right?) I thought you knew hockey...THOUGHT.

As a fellow Yotes fan you know that I go to hockey games in the AHL, CHL and the NCAA. There might be a slight drop off in overall talent in a NHL II but to think otherwise is shortsighted IMO. I think many fans over-rate many NHL players. Many of these guys just fill a role or a big and can check. You could take over half of the players in the AHL, put them along side better players and the average fan won't notice any difference. There are many players in the NHL that were teammates of CHL, NCAA, AHL or even ECHL or Europeon players and they were not as talented as them at a younger age. Many only made the NHL because they were able to excel at an assigned role or simply had a size advantage.

The drop off in overall talent would be made up for in pure entertainment. Mistakes lead to entertainment and odd man rushes and scoring chances. The NHL is loaded with checker type players that don't allow talent and stars to shine. This could be the best thing to happen to hockey and this might be the silver lining in a very dark cloud. Keep an open mind.

I also used to go to MLB games before the 94 stike but have not bought a ticket for MLB since the strike and likely never will. If these current players don't come to grips with the reality of the situation I don't think I will be alone in spending my hard earned money on some other form of entertainment instead of on this breed of NHL players. I used to think NHL players were different and were special athletes. My opinion is quickly changing.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

If it happens that owners start up a new league titled NHL II then IMO it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL. The top 100 or so players would be replaced by the likes of youngsters like Spezza, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, Richards, Phoenuf, Bergeron, Malkin, Dube, Pouliot, Staal, Nash and dozens of other good young players. The next 1300 top hockey players in the world are pretty much interchangable. The game actually might be better off for it because skilled players or undersized players may actually bring more entertainment to the game than countless one dimensional grinder types that dominate the NHL right now.

Of all the dumb comments you've made on this board in recent months, this one takes the cake.

 

[eye]

Of all the dumb comments you've made on this board in recent months, this one takes the cake.

Do me a favour. Post your Flyers lineup minus your top 6 or 7 players and then compare your top prospects to the rest of your lineup. Is there much of a difference? I would think many of your top prospects have a lot more promise than your remaining roster.

Open your eyes and your mindset!

 

[ComrieFanatic]

i heard that players in the PA can cross the picket line and play in a new NHL if they chose to, meaning that not all the top players would be excluded from it

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Do me a favour. Post your Flyers lineup minus your top 6 or 7 players and then compare your top prospects to the rest of your lineup. Is there much of a difference? I would think many of your top prospects have a lot more promise than your remaining roster.

Open your eyes and your mindset!

First of all you said minues the top 100 players in the NHL, of which the Flyers might have 3 or 4. Just for arguments sake we'll say that Roenick, Johnsson, Gagne, Primeau and Esche are top 100 players.

You said that we'll be replacing them as well, correct ??? With who ???

The Flyers would then be replacing:

Handzus
Zhamnov (assuming he re-signs)
Sharp
Kapanen
Brashear
Somik
Amonte
LeClair
Fedoruk
Markov
Desjardins
Ragnarsson
Pitkanen
Malakhov/Seidenberg
Niittymaki

with

Jeff Carter
Mike Richards
R.J. Umberger
Ben Eager
Rejean Beauchemin
Neil Little
Alex Picard
Randy Jones
Roario Ruggeri
John Sim
Ryan Ready
Mark Murphy
Freddy Meyer

etc. etc.


Boy I can't wait to pay $45 a night to see that team.

 

[Trottier]

...it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL.

And it takes a nanosecond to "replace" an ignorant, ungrateful fan with another.

All "interchangeable".

 

[CarlRacki]

And it takes a nanosecond to "replace" an ignorant, ungrateful fan with another.

What exactly should NHL fans be 'grateful' for? That the owners gladly take our money, in ever-increasing amounts, while placing a continually lesser product on the ice? That players take us - and the lifestyles we help provide them - totally for granted? Yep, we fans have a lot to be thankful for.

As to replacing fans ... the NHL needs to hold on to every fan its got. You may not have noticed this, but in most places people aren't on long waiting lists for season tickets, carving out money in their budget to go to a game or even making time in their days to watch a game on TV. The tought that fans are easily replaceable is laughable.

 

[MmmBacon]

"Only" five years to rebuild? After five years without elite players, NHL revenues would be about the same as my car payment.

 

[Marconius]

If it happens that owners start up a new league titled NHL II then IMO it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL. The top 100 or so players would be replaced by the likes of youngsters like Spezza, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, Richards, Phoenuf, Bergeron, Malkin, Dube, Pouliot, Staal, Nash and dozens of other good young players. The next 1300 top hockey players in the world are pretty much interchangable. The game actually might be better off for it because skilled players or undersized players may actually bring more entertainment to the game than countless one dimensional grinder types that dominate the NHL right now.

So no impasse needed. Just a new league with pretty much the same owners and venues all operating under a different set of economic rules. Bring it on. I'm tired of the attitude of many current NHL stars and especially their leadership. Time to refresh the league with a new vision and a new breed of players.

I agree with you %100. I have serious concerns about the business of starting NHL II, but the tealent level should not be a concern.

 

[Trottier]

What exactly should NHL fans be 'grateful' for?

The word was used in response to the all-too-common sentiment of some that these players are "a dime a dozen". "Easily replacable". "Replacements." Now, the word "grateful", may be melodramatic, but I hope that answers your question. One gets the feeling that at least a few hacks on these boards think they could get out there and replace NHLers.

The thought that fans are easily replaceable is laughable.

My post was referring to those fans who take the aforementioned bitter, persecuted attitude, not from an attendance/monetary standpoint.

Adding: Let's be honest. There are fans (e.g., the originator of this thread) who want nothing less than to crush the players and/or crush the wealthier franchises. I am not assigning that motivation to you and the majority of posters. But it is prevalent on this board among some. And it is totally counter-productive to achieving an agreement in the real world. Perhaps you wish to defend that approach; I'd think not from reading your posts. I have a hard time viewing those folks as nothing other than delusional and childish.

 

[CarlRacki]

Fair enough.
For the record, I've never called the players greedy (though the label probably fits for some individual players) nor have I called them easily replaceable. I don't agree with those who do think they're easily replaceable.

Unfortunately, what we're going to find out soon enough is that for many fans hockey is replaceable as a form of entertainment.

 

[Trottier]

Racki - And, for the record, I believe strongly that the players must make the majority of concessions in this CBA.

Ultimately, they will, I'm guessing.

***

I know this comment will win me no popularity contests , but frankly, the actions/comments of neither side in this CBA have surprised me, having lived through previous sports labor negotiations. In actuality, the comments eminating from the NHLPA and Bettman/ownership has been relatively tame!

What is somewhat startling, and very depressing, is the level of anger and hatred (and, in some cases, blatant hypocrisy) of some fans. Regardless of one's POV, one's "side". (Not excusing one's self here. )

Overall, it has not been a pretty sight.

 

[txomisc]

Racki - And, for the record, I believe strongly that the players must make the majority of concessions in this CBA.

Ultimately, they will, I'm guessing.

***

I know this comment will win me no popularity contests , but frankly, the actions/comments of neither side in this CBA have surprised me, having lived through previous sports labor negotiations. In actuality, the comments eminating from the NHLPA and Bettman/ownership has been relatively tame!

What is somewhat startling, and very depressing, is the level of anger and hatred (and, in some cases, blatant hypocrisy) of some fans. Regardless of one's POV, one's "side". (Not excusing one's self here. )

Overall, it has not been a pretty sight.

Well this anger and hatred has been building up for several years now. When was it we started to realize there was a very good chance that we would hit this problem? Probably at least 2 years ago. People on both sides see that not enough is being done to fix the problem. Hell, you've got people who absolutely love the sport. This potential lost season really has alot of fans feeling totally betrayed. We have been betrayed, by both sides in this. That is where the hatred and the venom comes from.

 

[kenabnrmal]

I've been following the AHL and SPHL very closely. The other leagues casually. I had season tickets for the Jets while they were still in Winnipeg, and I've been following the NHL as close as someone could living in a non-NHL city since. So I'm reasonably familiar with the talent levels of each particular league.

You're right in one sense. The NHL II would result in many more errors than you saw in the NHL, and that would create more odd-man opportunities. And yes, the average non-hockey fan would find this exciting. Having spent a good deal of time in the Southern US with non-hockey fans, for the most part they see the fights, the hitting, the skating (which for the most part they couldn't possibly imagine doing while smacking a puck around), and the sounds...and if thats up their ally, they are entertained. Having the best in the world likely wouldn't make much difference to the average non-hockey fan.

HOWEVER, when the rest of us who do follow the sport see those errors that lead to "exciting odd-man rushes", we'll wonder what the hell the guy made the mistake for, and why we made the mistake of paying top dollar to see it. The fact of the matter is, NHLers ARE special athletes. Its a shame your hate for their position in these negotiations are blinding you to that. The fourth liners are perhaps replaceable with the top AHL talent. And yes, there is always the diamond in the rough that sneaks through from the lower leagues. But, don't delude yourself into thinking that they are easily replaceable. Think the fans are overrating NHLers? What about the scores of coaches and scouts who's job it is to differentiate between NHL talent and minor-league talent? Are they overrating NHLers as well?

You're more than entitled to have this opinion, and maybe others share it. I just can't imagine how anyone who followed these various levels of hockey closely could possibly agree.

I love minor league hockey. just at a minor hockey league price.

 

[Wetcoaster]

If it happens that owners start up a new league titled NHL II then IMO it will only take about 5 years to replace the top end talent of the current NHL. The top 100 or so players would be replaced by the likes of youngsters like Spezza, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, Richards, Phoenuf, Bergeron, Malkin, Dube, Pouliot, Staal, Nash and dozens of other good young players. The next 1300 top hockey players in the world are pretty much interchangable. The game actually might be better off for it because skilled players or undersized players may actually bring more entertainment to the game than countless one dimensional grinder types that dominate the NHL right now.

So no impasse needed. Just a new league with pretty much the same owners and venues all operating under a different set of economic rules. Bring it on. I'm tired of the attitude of many current NHL stars and especially their leadership. Time to refresh the league with a new vision and a new breed of players.

Just one SLIGHT problem - it would be illegal under labour laws.

 

[loudi94]

While I don't think a new league is a possibility, let's put to rest the idea that players are not replaceable. With the exception of 2 players in the last 20 years, realistically,the league has no one who puts butts in the seats simply because he's coming to town. The Naslunds, Yzermans and Sakics etc. are great players, but it's the teams the majority of fans come to see. When Montreal scores a goal it is secondary who put the puck in, only that they scored really matters. Hockey will be about the team and an ugly goal counts as much as a pretty goal. A game with a bunch of no names can be just as exciting as watching the "elite". Check out the minors and Junior leagues and you'll see it to be true. Of course I wouldn't pay more than $15 to see any team play.

 

[Trottier]

Of course I wouldn't pay more than $15 to see any team play.

Which is 100% totally cool, and the only way in which a fan can truly expresses his/her "rights"; the pocketbook.

I will refer, however, to the old saying, "you get what you pay for." Fifteen-dollar-a-ticket hockey, no doubt, can be entertaining. It's not the NHL. (I know we may disagree here, based on your post; that too, is cool.)

Just because you masquerade a minor leaguer on NHL ice (or some 17 year old kid for that matter) does not him an NHLer.

But, again, you apparently back up your words with actions, which is commendable. . One sees hypocrisy in fans who ceaselessly rip NHLers, as people, union members and as athletes ("they are easily replaceable!")...and then bemoan the fact that they aren't playing. With rare exception, these fickle fans will go right back to paying to watch "the bums" they are currently condemning.

***

Well this anger and hatred has been building up for several years now....That is where the hatred and the venom comes from.

No doubt, and to a degree, IMO, justified. However, in some cases, emotion has won over the day, as we see dailiy on this board. As in the "notion" of this thread.

KenA put it perfectly, IMO:

"The fact of the matter is, NHLers ARE special athletes. Its a shame your hate for their position in these negotiations are blinding you to that."

Not directing that to you txomisc, but you must concede that to be the case with some. Argue the merits of the next CBA, fine. But slandering the talents of these guys - especially when in the next breath one is whining about not having any NHL hockey - is unseemingly, innaccurate and hypocritical.

 

[Epsilon]

Just one SLIGHT problem - it would be illegal under labour laws.

Don't tell that to eye ' if he thought it up, it must be realistic and fair.

 

[GKJ]

First of all you said minues the top 100 players in the NHL, of which the Flyers might have 3 or 4. Just for arguments sake we'll say that Roenick, Johnsson, Gagne, Primeau and Esche are top 100 players.

You said that we'll be replacing them as well, correct ??? With who ???

The Flyers would then be replacing:

Handzus
Zhamnov (assuming he re-signs)
Sharp
Kapanen
Brashear
Somik
Amonte
LeClair
Fedoruk
Markov
Desjardins
Ragnarsson
Pitkanen
Malakhov/Seidenberg
Niittymaki

with

Jeff Carter
Mike Richards
R.J. Umberger
Ben Eager
Rejean Beauchemin
Neil Little
Alex Picard
Randy Jones
Roario Ruggeri
John Sim
Ryan Ready
Mark Murphy
Freddy Meyer

etc. etc.


Boy I can't wait to pay $45 a night to see that team.

We don't own the right to Jon Sim, John. We'd have to make a trade with Phoenix for him.

 

[loudi94]

I will refer, however, to the old saying, "you get what you pay for." Fifteen-dollar-a-ticket hockey, no doubt, can be entertaining. It's not the NHL. (I know we may disagree here, based on your post; that too, is cool.)

Just because you masquerade a minor leaguer on NHL ice (or some 17 year old kid for that matter) does not him an NHLer.

I agree you get what you pay for. Watching an NHL hockey game at an arena was no more exciting than watching my WHL team battle a rival team. For me, the only exception was watching the Habs play for the first time in Calgary. I was able to sit behind the bench for the pre-game skate and watch the jerseys flying around, then I was banished to the rafters. The game itself was a blur. I soured on live NHL games after that. I'll go when it's affordable.

 

[GKJ]

As a fellow Yotes fan you know that I go to hockey games in the AHL, CHL and the NCAA. There might be a slight drop off in overall talent in a NHL II but to think otherwise is shortsighted IMO. I think many fans over-rate many NHL players. Many of these guys just fill a role or a big and can check. You could take over half of the players in the AHL, put them along side better players and the average fan won't notice any difference. There are many players in the NHL that were teammates of CHL, NCAA, AHL or even ECHL or Europeon players and they were not as talented as them at a younger age. Many only made the NHL because they were able to excel at an assigned role or simply had a size advantage.

The drop off in overall talent would be made up for in pure entertainment. Mistakes lead to entertainment and odd man rushes and scoring chances. The NHL is loaded with checker type players that don't allow talent and stars to shine. This could be the best thing to happen to hockey and this might be the silver lining in a very dark cloud. Keep an open mind.

I also used to go to MLB games before the 94 stike but have not bought a ticket for MLB since the strike and likely never will. If these current players don't come to grips with the reality of the situation I don't think I will be alone in spending my hard earned money on some other form of entertainment instead of on this breed of NHL players. I used to think NHL players were different and were special athletes. My opinion is quickly changing.

Why do you watch the NHL if you think everyone is overrated. They can't be too bad if youn watch it. Go ahead and waste money on season tickets for the replacement players. That is just stupid. If you really want to watch replacement players so bad go watch the ECHL.