Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by BertCorbeau, Apr 3, 2019.
He's the big one. The other guys better than him came in the 3rd or 4th round and were not ranked higher than that at any time, or are middle 6 winger types that we've been able to find later in the draft anyways.
Yeah. Burakovsky while better is Connor Brown 2.0
Theodore is a guy I wanted draft day simply because the prospect depth was garbage and dmen help
Hmmmmmmm Holloway eh
Carolina gets our 2020 1st if the pick is outside the top 10
If not they get our 2021 1st
Completes the Marleau trade
If you want this year's early D+2 frontrunner, look no further than Saginaw LHD Ilya Solovyov.
Seems like the perfect package. Excellent puck mover, high IQ, smooth skater, big body (6'2,", 205), capable of playing in all situations.
Currently has 12 points in his first 6 OHL games, tying him with Quinton Byfield for #1 in OHL points, and #2 in CHL points.
Let the highlights speak for themselves. This guy is legit.
Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
Wonder if this became the approach under Dubas? It wasn't under Hunter.
That's surprising, if there's a team that can work on skating technique and can improve it it's us, Underhill seems to know what she's doing
Look at Gauthier, it's a night and day difference since he got to the Marlies, we brought in Brazeau as well who's skating is very average and needs some work as well
Big guys that can't skate and handle the puck like a grenade I can understand but skilled with iffy skating? I'd be willing to take a punt on that later in the draft
Iff skating is better then poor skating. They are probably talking about players who are terrible skaters.
Dubas has drafted a few who are below average to average skaters. Holmberg, SDA are a couple of them.
I would assume it's more nuanced than "good skaters" and "bad skaters".
Some guys you can tell just need some polish on their mechanics/strength and they'll be fine, other guys are going to be bad skaters no matter who trains them. I would hope the DND list is guys who are always going to be bad skaters. Players with good skating ceilings and obviously fixable mechanics should be targets to take if they fall lower than they deserve.
I'd have said Gauthier was a terrible skater out of junior, look at him now, if he had actual hands he'd be dangerous because I'd describe him as slightly above average now
Unless a guy had really heavy feet I'd still be willing to draft them if they had enough traits I was looking for, I think hockey IQ and hands are the first traits I'd be interested in
For me it's just Hockey IQ, unless the guy has to make a living off of offense.
The guy does not need to be a dangler if he knows what to do and where to be. Maybe he's not going to be in the top 60 without those types of skills, but Hockey IQ is the only complete deal-breaker for me. IDC how skilled you are if you can't think the game at least as well as the majority of your higher end peers.
I'd also like to know what they classify as "bad skaters". I don't think there are many guys even on the radar if they are "bad skaters", because usually those guys don't have other skills that would make them worth drafting.
Update: He now has 14 points in 8 OHL games.
However have to note that he generates a ton of points off of the PP by feeding Coskey and Perfetti. An inflation to note but still a great PP QB to watch.
From now on I think the approach with poor skaters will happen as it did with Brazeau. Avoid them in the draft and if they have a big year that can't be ignored, you take a shot and see if you can fix that one part of their game.
I'm all for taking skating and skill in the draft.
That's a good point.
I value skating as criteria #1 among the big things I look for. This doesn't necessarily mean speed either, skating is also about agility, foot work, pivots, etc. Someone like Sandin isn't fast but he's incredibly agile and can make good plays because of it.
I still think it's IQ for me.
Poor IQ = undraftable player, unless they have an elite, 1st round type skill set. If they have a special skill set, I'd take a flyer with a mid-late round pick and hope that they can at least leverage their skill in a niche way. For example, Ryan Merkley.
Poor skater != undraftable player in all cases. If they have high IQ and a lot of other nice skills, I wouldn't keep them off of my draft board. They would obviously be a lot lower than if they had high IQ, all of those other skills AND were a good skater, but that does not make them undraftable.
I think you can teach a skater, even a bad one, how to get to the level that is good enough for the NHL, if not even make it somewhat of a strength. I think IQ is something you more or less have by the time you are 18, and it's what separates a career minor leaguer/high end AAAA player from an everyday NHLer, and an everyday NHLer from most high end/elite NHLers. There are some guys who are among the best skaters in the world who can't hack it in the NHL because they can't think and react fast enough, and then there are some guys with a very vanilla skill set (and are at best mediocre skaters) who can carve out long careers because they work hard and they know and consistently execute on the little things they need to do.
I guess on the positive side if things REALLY went upside down...
Muzzin = 1st rounder (maybe more?)
Barrie = 1st rounder (maybe more?)
Ceci = 3rd rounder
Marincin = 6th-7th
Spezza = 7th
Hoard the 7th rounders.
We could get more out of Ceci. Doubt we get anything for Marincin or Spezza unless they play quite a bit.
We could definitely salvage some good futures. Plus there is nothing stopping the Leafs from spending some futures to add longer term bodies to the mix that can help right now as well, possibly at the expense of roster players like Kapanen or Johnsson if it makes sense.
Spent 50 bucks on beer just to get through this joke.
Predictable performance coming off a back to back
Merkley isn't necessarily hockey dumb, he just doesn't historically listen to coaches and tends to just quit on things when they don't go his way (or his teammates mess up) which is different than gambling on low-IQ player. Gambling on lower IQ guys is with players like Evander Kane or Virtanen. They have the skill to be NHLers but will generally drive you nuts unless you are asking them to carry a 3rd line because they tend to be players who excel off the rush and haven't seen a shot they don't like, which tends to lead to one shot and out situations. For 3rd liners who drive shots/possession that's fine, but you obviously want guys who can excel more off the cycle/get teammates involved and not just racking up shots off rushes and playing dumb and chase on your top line.
That is Merkley's largest problems, but he also takes unnecessary risks and makes very questionable decisions with the puck, especially in his own zone. Sure he has a ton of talent so he can get away with it a bit more in the OHL (although it definitely has burned him far more than it should for an NHL caliber prospect, nevermind a 1st rounder), but it's only going to get tougher.
That does not even get into his positioning issues, or ability in tight, which is also questionable at best.
Maybe it is his attitude and if he just put some work in he would be able to magically fix all of those issues... However he wouldn't be the first talented player to lose out on an NHL career due to ego. As far as I am concerned, he may as well just have IQ issues. If you are behind your peers in hockey IQ, it's tough to catch up. If you have this kind of attitude, it's usually more than a maturity thing... And if Merkley has not figured it out by now that his attitude is a problem after getting ousted by two quality teams because of it, then he is really far behind his peers in that regard too. The right attitude is probably just as important as IQ, except few players at this stage have that problem. It's rare to have a guy with the IQ to be really good but not have the attitude, and in the grand scheme of things, they end up in the same place.
I don't think gambling on Merkely is gambling on a low-IQ guy figuring it out. You are betting on a troubled kid to finally get it, and then rapidly makeup on lost time. Which is why I wouldn't have drafted him. I just don't really see him as an example of gambling on low-IQ. To be honest, the only position you can really gamble on lower IQ guys is very toolsy power-wingers, although, a lot of those guys naturally get over-drafted before the value kicks in. Guys like Chad Kilger and Virtanen. Useful bottom-6 guys, but absolutely lost at the top of the line-up because plays die on their stick. Evander Kane is by far the best example of this type of player who has gone on to find some level of success.
Dubas will run the board in the 7th Round
Do we have 4 or 5 ?
Some are conditional with ??? Beside them
Separate names with a comma.