NHL.com Super 16 No. 1 picks since 1980

[Merchant]

Mario
Crosby
McDavid
Ovechkin
Lindros



The rest.

I would change the order, but I agree with this line of thinking.

 

[Leafidelity]

How is Matthews ahead of Turgeon and Lecavalier... he has done absolutely nothing in his career so far to justify that

Nothing except out produce both of them comparatively at every turn

 

[Kranix]

Top 5 looks good I guess

 

[Beesfan]

Man, I almost completely forget about Lindros. He really is hockey's lost superstar. Don't think younger fans will ever understand how good he was, but he was considered the heir to Gretzky and Lemieux, and for a short while was the clear best player in the world (ahead of prime Jagr, Forsberg, Sakic and Yzerman). Injuries aside, he would be in a class with Crosby and Ovechkin.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Fleury is polarizing.
He's the top player from the best draft class in history (in terms of hardware).
But he's arguably worse than a lot of his contemporaries in his position (would you take peak Fleury over peak Price/Rask/Luongo?)

No he isn't. He isn't even close

0 individual trophies
1 cup as a starter

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Nothing except out produce both of them comparatively at every turn

It takes under 30 seconds to verify that this is objectively false. Why lie?

 

[Kranix]

Why was Taylor Hall left off the list, and what about Owen Nolan

 

[Video Nasty]

I understand that he was the first runner up left off the list, but Kovalchuk has to be the biggest head scratcher. Nearly as much as only 3 replies in an 81 post and counting thread even mentioning his lack of inclusion on this list.

In the 10 seasons, from 2002-2003 through 2011-2012, he scored at least 30 goals in every season. He had 29 in 65 games as a rookie.

6 consecutive 40+ goal seasons.

2 52 goal seasons. A Rocket. A 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th and 7th place finish in goals along the way during those 10 years.

6 80+ point seasons.

What argument is there for Matthews on this list over Kovalchuk? He doesn't even beat him if you look at just their first 4 seasons apiece.

 

[Kranix]

I understand that he was the first runner up left off the list, but Kovalchuk has to be the biggest head scratcher. Nearly as much as only 3 replies in an 81 post and counting thread even mentioning his lack of inclusion on this list.

In the 10 seasons, from 2002-2003 through 2011-2012, he scored at least 30 goals in every season. He had 29 in 65 games as a rookie.

6 consecutive 40+ goal seasons.

2 52 goal seasons. A Rocket. A 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th and 7th place finish in goals along the way during those 10 years.

6 80+ point seasons.

What argument is there for Matthews on this list over Kovalchuk? He doesn't even beat him if you look at just their first 4 seasons apiece.

Because he's a Russian who left the NHL

 

[Leafidelity]

It takes under 30 seconds to verify that this is objectively false. Why lie?

30 seconds to verify and yet you come back with nothing. Riiight.

I'm simply going to compare their place in scoring among piers since they played in different scoring eras. I want to make this clear because you seem to be misunderstanding the numbers. Now let me help educate you;

Turgeon (314 games)
Season 1 - 140th
Season 2 - 18th
Season 3 - 7th
Season 4 - 27th

average = 48th

Lacavalier (306 games)
Season 1 - 224th
Season 2 - 32nd
Season 3 - 100th
Season 4 - 171st

average = 131st

Matthews (282 games)
Season 1 - 22nd
Season 2 - 61st
Season 3 - 42nd
Season 4 - 9th

average = 33rd


Not only has Matthews out produced both, he did it in significantly less games then either.

 

[Video Nasty]

30 seconds to verify and yet you come back with nothing. Riiight.

I'm simply going to compare their place in scoring among piers since they played in different scoring eras. I want to make this clear because you seem to have a hard time understanding numbers. Now let me help educate you;

Turgeon (314 games)
Season 1 - 140th
Season 2 - 18th
Season 3 - 7th
Season 4 - 27th

average = 48th

Lacavalier (306 games)
Season 1 - 224th
Season 2 - 32nd
Season 3 - 100th
Season 4 - 171st

average = 131st

Matthews (282 games)
Season 1 - 22nd
Season 2 - 61st
Season 3 - 42nd
Season 4 - 9th

average = 33rd


Not only has Matthews out produced both, he did it in significantly less games then either.

Let's do it for Kovalchuk now.

305 games

Season 1- 83rd
Season 2- 36th
Season 3- 2nd
Season 4- 8th

Average = 32nd

 

[Leafidelity]

Let's do it for Kovalchuk now.

305 games

Season 1- 83rd
Season 2- 36th
Season 3- 2nd
Season 4- 8th

Average = 32nd

Id put him above Turgeon and Lacavalier for sure

 

[FerrisRox]

Unless you know the players. Mats numbers as a Nordique distort his overall career production. He produced very well with Forsberg and the gang and then became a point a game player.

Funny how you talk about "knowing the players" and then in the next sentence tell us how Mats Sundin performed well with "Forsberg and the gang."

 

[Video Nasty]

Id put him above Turgeon and Lacavalier for sure

Matthews has plenty of work to do before he is considered above Kovalchuk.

 

[Leafidelity]

Matthews has plenty of work to do before he is considered above Kovalchuk.

Up to season 4, he's been better than or equal to him. You have to think he would have a couple points with the 23 extra games Kovalchuk has over him. It wouldn't take much more than finishing this season for Matthews to be higher ranked than 33rd.

Lets remember we're only comparing their first 4 seasons as Matthews has only played as much.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

30 seconds to verify and yet you come back with nothing. Riiight.

I'm simply going to compare their place in scoring among piers since they played in different scoring eras. I want to make this clear because you seem to be misunderstanding the numbers. Now let me help educate you;

Turgeon (314 games)
Season 1 - 140th
Season 2 - 18th
Season 3 - 7th
Season 4 - 27th

average = 48th

Lacavalier (306 games)
Season 1 - 224th
Season 2 - 32nd
Season 3 - 100th
Season 4 - 171st

average = 131st

Matthews (282 games)
Season 1 - 22nd
Season 2 - 61st
Season 3 - 42nd
Season 4 - 9th

average = 33rd


Not only has Matthews out produced both, he did it in significantly less games then either.

What a fun stat to justify what you said. If you quickly glance at their points, Matthews has not outproduced. Had you said "Matthews has placed higher in league scoring than either" you'd be right, but he certainly hasn't outproduced Pierre Turgeon who already had a 100+ pt season by year 3.

 

[Leafidelity]

What a fun stat to justify what you said. If you quickly glance at their points, Matthews has not outproduced. Had you said "Matthews has placed higher in league scoring than either" you'd be right, but he certainly hasn't outproduced Pierre Turgeon who already had a 100+ pt season by year 3.

That's just a bit disingenuous when Turgeon had a 100 point season in a year when 13 players passed the mark

 

[Sasha Orlov]

That's just a bit disingenuous when Turgeon had a 100 point season in a year when 13 players passed the mark

If he outproduced him he outproduced him :/

The point you made with relative league scoring is very valid though and must have taken a while to put together, it is interesting for sure.

 

[insomniac]

Fleury is closer to getting into the HHOF than any player below him on the list.

Which is an absolute travesty because Turgeon should have been inducted years ago.. along with Roenick and CuJo.

 

[Beville]

Fleury above Stamkos? For what purpose?

CuPs ArE mEaNiNgLeSs

 

[Video Nasty]

Up to season 4, he's been better than or equal to him. You have to think he would have a couple points with the 23 extra games Kovalchuk has over him. It wouldn't take much more than finishing this season for Matthews to be higher ranked than 33rd.

Lets remember we're only comparing their first 4 seasons as Matthews has only played as much.

Yes, I'm very aware it's 4 seasons being discussed. How disingenuous can you be? The strength of your argument that Matthews is better through 4 years is because he had a better rookie campaign. Objectively, Kovalchuk had 2 seasons that were unquestionably better, one that is a toss up and one that was worse.

Seeing that you're the one bringing up actual points since Kovalchuk finished just above Matthews using your average placement method, let's try this.

A favorite argument people normally bring up to try and compare scoring among different eras is league wide average GPG.

League wide scoring, point and goal placement during their first 4 seasons.

Kovalchuk:

2001-2002: 5.13- 83rd in points, 35th in goals
2002-2003: 5.19- 36th in points, 7th in goals
2003-2004: 5.13- 2nd in points, 1st in goals
2005-2006: 6.00- 8th in points, 3rd in goals

Matthews:

2016-2017: 5.36- 20th in points, 2nd in goals
2017-2018: 5.75- 58th in points, 21st in goals
2018-2019: 5.82- 42nd in points, 17th in goals
2019-2020: 5.84- 9th in points, 3rd in goals

How can you sit there with a straight face and say that Matthews has been better than or equal to him? Kovalchuk won a Rocket, was 3rd and 7th. He finished 2nd in an Art Ross race and also inside the top 10 another time. He did what he did in a lower scoring era in 3 of his 4 seasons.

Kovalchuk had 160 goals and 303 points in 305 games during 4 years where average GPG was 5.36.
Matthews had 158 goals and 285 points in 282 games during 4 years where average GPG was 5.70. He has also been on the hands down better team.

One had a better rookie season than the other certainly, Matthews has 2 losses and a tie in the years 2-4 comparing the two.

 

[BlueBaron]

Funny how you talk about "knowing the players" and then in the next sentence tell us how Mats Sundin performed well with "Forsberg and the gang."

It's funny how he was on Quebec? Which was funnier his 103 point season or his 85 point season? If this makes you laugh you must be a happy guy.

 

[HarryLime]

Sundin disrespect continues

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Fluery that high is kind of a head scratcher.

Fleury's recent uptick in reputation all seems to stem from his run with Vegas a couple of seasons ago. Before that no one, media included, seemed to regard him as anything more than a middle of the pack starter.

 

[Jee]

ROFL Matthews ahead of Turgeon and Lecavalier, my sides