LeBrun: NHL clarification on conditional picks

[hockeykicker]

LeBrun: The NHL's conditional trades ruling is the right...

Canucks conditional first round pick:

So, there you go. That first-round pick is still in flux until that Canucks-Wild play-in series is completed. If Vancouver loses, New Jersey instead gets the Canucks’ unprotected 2021 first-round pick.

Jason Zucker Trade

Well, if the fifth-seeded Penguins were to be upset by the 12th-seeded Canadiens in the play-in round this summer, Pittsburgh would be in that very position of deciding whether to hand the Wild this year’s pick or next year’s pick. And given that losing to Montreal would mean being in the draft lottery, you would assume Pittsburgh would probably keep this year’s pick, which would stink for Minnesota. Wild GM Bill Guerin will be cheering for his old NHL team in that play-in series versus the Habs.

James Neal/Milan Lucic

I mean, there’s time. The NHL draft won’t be until fall, at the earliest. If I had to guess, I’d say the Flames will get the third-round pick from the Oilers; common sense would dictate you prorate what Neal and Lucic did and that the condition would have been met over a full season.

Vatanen

Well, the injured Vatanen never played a regular-season game for the Hurricanes before the season was put on pause March 12. So, presumably, the Canes don’t have to trade away a draft pick to the Devils in this deal. The No. 1 contention was the five regular-season games played — unless New Jersey can make the argument that should Vatanen play in a certain number of the Canes’ playoff games this summer, they should get a pick. I can see both teams making different arguments here and the league having to step in and make a call.

Clifford

The pick becomes a second-round pick if the Leafs either re-sign Clifford or make the playoffs (which means winning their play-in round versus Columbus) and Campbell wins six regular-season games. He won three. So the second criterion is now toast. The Kings can upgrade to a second-round pick only if Clifford re-signs with the Leafs.

Click to read more...

 

[Empoleon8771]

As it should be. I don't know why there were people arguing that being in the top-24 meant they were "playoff" teams, when the NHL has been very adamant that the playoffs are still only 16 teams.

 

[LeafsNation75]

When it comes to Toronto I thought the the 3rd round pick they traded becomes a 2nd round pick is if Clifford re-signs with them? Since Jack Campbell did not win 6 regular season games with the Maple Leafs (He only had 3 wins) if they make the playoffs that shouldn't guarantee the condition actually happening.

Conditions: The 2021 3rd round pick upgrades to a 2nd round pick if either Kyle Clifford re-signs with Toronto OR if the Leafs make the 2019-20 playoffs and Jack Campbell wins 6 regular season games.

 

[jetsforever]

Can't read article but it'd be interesting if they prorate the Lucic-Neal stats.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Since we're prorating stats.

Congrats on Ovechkin pasta and Matthews on their 50 goal seasons.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Can't read article but it'd be interesting if they prorate the Lucic-Neal stats.

I would assume the condition of Calgary getting Edmonton's 2020 3rd pick won't happen. Gary Bettman said all stats from this past season are now considered finished since the NHL announced the winners for the Art Ross and Rocket Richard Trophy. So because James Neal had 19 goals instead of 21 and Milan Lucic had 8 goals and needed to score under 10 goals, that condition won't happen.

2020 conditional 3rd round pick* (EDM - #85)
*Conditions: Pick is transferred if James Neal scores 21 goals and Milan Lucic scores 10 or fewer goals than Neal in the 2019-20 season.

 

[duul]

Don't see how they can prorate Neal's points when he was out injured at the time of the shutdown...

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I would assume the condition of Calgary getting Edmonton's 2020 3rd pick won't happen. Gary Bettman said all stats from this past season are now considered finished since the NHL announced the winners for the Art Ross and Rocket Richard Trophy. So because James Neal had 19 goals instead of 21 and Milan Lucic had 8 goals and needed to score under 10 goals, that condition won't happen.

2020 conditional 3rd round pick* (EDM - #85)
*Conditions: Pick is transferred if James Neal scores 21 goals and Milan Lucic scores 10 or fewer goals than Neal in the 2019-20 season.

I wouldnt be surprised.

They got rid of the rule for hiring fired coaches and GM's just after we hired Chiarelli and McLellan and had to give up picks.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I wouldnt be surprised.

They got rid of the rule for hiring fired coaches and GM's just after we hired Chiarelli and McLellan and had to give up picks.

According to this the NHL got rid of that compensation rule on January 1, 2016.

NHL to end coach and executive compensation policy

Also around that time frame you mentioned about the Oilers, Toronto also had to give up 3rd round picks when they hired Babcock and Lamoriello.

 

[13pacheco31]

What if the leafs sign Clifford after july 1st? Does that still count?

 

[Mr Positive]

According to this the NHL got rid of that compensation rule on January 1, 2016.

NHL to end coach and executive compensation policy

Also around that time frame you mentioned about the Oilers, Toronto also had to give up 3rd round picks when they hired Babcock and Lamoriello.

I'm not sure about the Lou one, but the Babcock one is not the same. That was not compensation. Babcock was still under contract, and Detroit negotiated for that pick. I will say I recall that the league made Columbus pay up for Torts just as the rule was expiring

 

[Jumptheshark]

Get ready for oiler fans to toss thier toys out of their prams

How can they prorate the stats? Joke

 

[Mr Positive]

It seems a bit of a misleading title. Did they actually rule on any? Just the Vancouver one?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Sounds like Lebrun is just guessing. On the Neal/Lucic one I’d love to hear the justification for pro rating a single players stats and not the entire leagues. I mean there’s probably at least a few instances where guys with bonus laden 35+ contracts and guys on elc’s would hit bonuses if their stats were pro rated. Gotta pro rate those guys numbers as well, thereby adding even more cap money to be paid out by owners and possibly even carrying over onto next seasons cap.

The league as usual will probably make things more complicated then it needs to be, they’ve officially called the season and the conditions weren’t meant, but Lebrun thinks they’ll put on paper that Neal is the only guy who would of played 82 this year and they’re going to just assume that in the last 11 games he’d stay healthy and score 2 more when he hadn’t scored since like beginning of January but Lucic, who’s scored more in the second half wouldn’t of closed the gap?

The league just loves making fools out of themselves though so it wouldn’t surprise me to see them pick the option that makes the least sense. If you want a compromise then push the condition to next season or give the Flames a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round.

I mean why don’t they bring in a late night tv psychic or have Bill Daly read some tarot cards to tell us what would of happened.

 

[duul]

Sounds like Lebrun is just guessing. On the Neal/Lucic one I’d love to hear the justification for pro rating a single players stats and not the entire leagues. I mean there’s probably at least a few instances where guys with bonus laden 35+ contracts and guys on elc’s would hit bonuses if their stats were pro rated. Gotta pro rate those guys numbers as well, thereby adding even more cap money to be paid out by owners and possibly even carrying over onto next seasons cap.

The league as usual will probably make things more complicated then it needs to be, they’ve officially called the season and the conditions weren’t meant, but Lebrun thinks they’ll put on paper that Neal is the only guy who would of played 82 this year and they’re going to just assume that in the last 11 games he’d stay healthy and score 2 more when he hadn’t scored since like beginning of January but Lucic, who’s scored more in the second half wouldn’t of closed the gap?

The league just loves making fools out of themselves though so it wouldn’t surprise me to see them pick the option that makes the least sense. If you want a compromise then push the condition to next season or give the Flames a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round.

I mean why don’t they bring in a late night tv psychic or have Bill Daly read some tarot cards to tell us what would of happened.

Stay healthy? Neal was literally injured at the time of lockdown, lol.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'm not sure about the Lou one, but the Babcock one is not the same. That was not compensation. Babcock was still under contract, and Detroit negotiated for that pick. I will say I recall that the league made Columbus pay up for Torts just as the rule was expiring

Maple Leafs make decision on 2016 third-round pick - Sportsnet.ca

Courtesy of CapFriendly

May 20, 2015
Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire:

Mike Babcock
(Head Coach)

Detroit Red Wings Acquire:

2017 conditional 3rd round pick* (TOR - #79 - Lane Zablocki)
*Conditions: Detroit will receive a 3rd round pick in 2015, 2016 or 2017.

Result: Detroit receives Toronto's 3rd round pick in 2017

Jul 23, 2015
Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire:

Lou Lamoriello
(GM)

New Jersey Devils Acquire:

2018 conditional 3rd round pick* (TOR - #87 - Linus Karlsson)
*Conditions: Devils will receive a 3rd round pick in 2016, 2017 or 2018.

Result: Devils will receive a 2018 3rd round pick

 

[2Pair]

It seems a bit of a misleading title. Did they actually rule on any? Just the Vancouver one?

All they really did was confirm that the "play-ins" aren't considered the "playoffs".

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Stay healthy? Neal was literally injured at the time of lockdown, lol.

He had been back in the lineup for a couple games before everything went to crap.

But still guy was coming back off a high ankle sprain, was playing down the lineup and lost his spot on the top PP to Chaisson.
Smart money says he wasnt scoring two more this year.

 

[Mr Positive]

Maple Leafs make decision on 2016 third-round pick - Sportsnet.ca

Courtesy of CapFriendly

May 20, 2015
Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire:

Mike Babcock
(Head Coach)

Detroit Red Wings Acquire:

2017 conditional 3rd round pick* (TOR - #79 - Lane Zablocki)
*Conditions: Detroit will receive a 3rd round pick in 2015, 2016 or 2017.

Result: Detroit receives Toronto's 3rd round pick in 2017


Jul 23, 2015

Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire:

Lou Lamoriello
(GM)

New Jersey Devils Acquire:

2018 conditional 3rd round pick* (TOR - #87 - Linus Karlsson)
*Conditions: Devils will receive a 3rd round pick in 2016, 2017 or 2018.

Result: Devils will receive a 2018 3rd round pick

that was still a pick that Detroit negotiated for, and even if it wasn't, it wouldn't be the same as the Oilers having to pay up for McLennan because McLellan was a fired employee. Babcock was still under contract

 

[LeafsNation75]

that was still a pick that Detroit negotiated for, and even if it wasn't, it wouldn't be the same as the Oilers having to pay up for McLennan because McLellan was a fired employee. Babcock was still under contract

Either way it was a stupid rule for coaches or gm's that were fired. In the case Lamoriello he had stepped down as the Devils GM. Now technically he was still employed as their President, however he was only hired in Toronto to become their General Manager and I didn't think they should have given up a draft pick based on that.

 

[belair]

If we're prorating Neal to 20, might as well prorate Lucic to 10. That isn't an answer, that's an assumption.

 

[super6646]

Surprised about the flames/oilers one tbh.

Whatever I won’t be upset.

 

[uncleben]

Additional conditions that are/could potentially be affected by the playins:

Taylor Hall - if Arizona fails to qualify or loses in the first round and fails to re-sign Hall, New Jersey will receive a third round pick; if Arizona qualifies and wins round 1 but does not re-sign Hall (or if Hall re-signs, but no playoff round is won), New Jersey receives a second; if Arizona qualifies and wins round 1 and re-signs Hall, New Jersey receives a first.
-Additionally, if Arizona fails to qualify and the draft lottery goes to Phase 2 and Arizona wins a lottery selection, their 2020 first will be deferred to 2021.

Cody Eakin - if Winnipeg fails to qualify and fails to re-sign Eakin, Vegas will receive a fourth round pick; if Winnipeg qualifies (or if Eakin re-signs), Vegas receives a third.

Mike Green - if Edmonton fails to qualify (or if they qualify but do not win two rounds, or if they qualify, win two rounds but Green plays less than 50% of the games), Detroit will receive a fourth round pick; if Edmonton qualifies and wins two rounds with Green playing more 50% of the games, Detroit receives a third.

Derek Forbort - if Calgary fails to qualify (or if they qualify but do not win two rounds, or if they qualify, win two rounds but Forbort plays less than 50% of the games), and fails to re-sign Forbort, Los Angeles will receive a fourth round pick; if Calgary qualifies and wins two rounds with Forbort playing more 50% of the games (or if Forbort re-signs), Los Angeles receives a third.

Max Veronneau - much more in line with the Vatanen trade as laid out by LeBrun, though much less likely to ever become an issue. Ottawa would receive a sixth round pick if Veronneau played in 10 or more regular season games this year or 10 or more regular season games next year. Toronto still had enough regular season games left to make this possible (though it was highly unlikely he was going to get a call-up). That said, if Veronneau makes the taxi squad (somewhat unlikely to begin with) and actually plays a significant number of playin/playoff games for the Leafs, Ottawa may make the same contention as supposed by LeBrun re: Vatanen. Far from a likely a scenario for many reasons, and even if Veronneau does not trigger the conditions this year, they can still be triggered next year anyway, but still, there is the potential of the League "having to step in and make a call."

Markus Hannikainen - much more in line with the Vatanen trade as laid out by LeBrun, though much less likely to ever become an issue. Columbus would receive a seventh round pick if Hannikainen played in 10 or more regular season games this year. Arizona still had enough regular season games left to make this possible. That said, if Hannikainen actually plays a significant number of playin/playoff games for the Coyotes, Columbus may make the same contention as supposed by LeBrun re: Vatanen. Far from a likely a scenario, but still, there is the potential of the League "having to step in and make a call."



Also worth noting: as Buffalo is officially not a part of the playoffs, their pick for Wayne Simmonds becomes a 5th instead of a 4th.

 

[ScottyK]

I'm sorry but the regular season is over and the nucks are still playing. That pick should be NJ's and i'm sure lawyers agree

 

[Richard88]

Since they're pro-rating stats congratulations to Colorado on winning the Central on points %...