OT: NHL All-Time Draft Tiebreaker

[UnSandvich]

Quite honestly, I don't get the love for either of these 2 players, considering who else is on the board. But that's how it goes sometimes. Who do y'all want more?

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[McMetal]

Sundin was a massively built career PPG player and a consistent workhorse scorer for his whole career. I'm not really an expert on hockey history before that era so I legitimately don't know who from before that might be "better", but that's certainly nothing to sneeze at in terms of impact for a career.

Given that he had 100+ more career goals than Gilmour I give him the edge in the matchup. Goals are always harder to come by than assists.

 

[UnSandvich]

Sundin was a massively built career PPG player and a consistent workhorse scorer for his whole career. I'm not really an expert on hockey history before that era so I legitimately don't know who from before that might be "better", but that's certainly nothing to sneeze at in terms of impact for a career.

Given that he had 100+ more career goals than Gilmour I give him the edge in the matchup. Goals are always harder to come by than assists.

I guess my confusion is with the lack of anything approaching individual accolades or awards. They had 2 end of season All-Stars (both second team) between them. Gilmour had 2 Top 5 Hart finishes over 20 years, Sundin had 1 Top 10 finish. 1 Messier, 1 Selke, 1 Cup between them. Neither led the league in points, goals, assists, etc. once over their careers. In comparison, to use the Bill Cook example from last thread, he had 2 2nd place finishes in Hart voting, 2 Cup Wins, was a 4 time All-star, led the league in points & goals twice each, and finished Top 10 in both categories multiple times (8 times in goals over 10 seasons, 7 times in points).

It's gotta be recency bias, and it's not just you guys, Sundin's been getting votes since midway through the 1st round of this. (also sorry if i'm coming across as ranty or aggressive, work suuuucks and i'm exhausted and just want cyberpunk 2077 to come out so i can distract myself from this hellhole of a year)

 

[Avsboy]

Alright, let's do a re-do. We all vote for whoever Bill Cook is.

 

[UnSandvich]

Alright, let's do a re-do. We all vote for whoever Bill Cook is.

F

(but nah, sorry brah. i can't just ignore people's non-troll votes like that, it'd be a dick move)

 

[UncleRisto]

Oh, I wonder why UncleRisto and @Murzu chose the Killer.

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

I guess my confusion is with the lack of anything approaching individual accolades or awards. They had 2 end of season All-Stars (both second team) between them. Gilmour had 2 Top 5 Hart finishes over 20 years, Sundin had 1 Top 10 finish. 1 Messier, 1 Selke, 1 Cup between them. Neither led the league in points, goals, assists, etc. once over their careers. In comparison, to use the Bill Cook example from last thread, he had 2 2nd place finishes in Hart voting, 2 Cup Wins, was a 4 time All-star, led the league in points & goals twice each, and finished Top 10 in both categories multiple times (8 times in goals over 10 seasons, 7 times in points).

It's gotta be recency bias, and it's not just you guys, Sundin's been getting votes since midway through the 1st round of this. (also sorry if i'm coming across as ranty or aggressive, work suuuucks and i'm exhausted and just want cyberpunk 2077 to come out so i can distract myself from this hellhole of a year)

I agree with you Sundin is going a bit soon, but he's also not one to scoff at in this position.

My vote would have been for Pat Lafontaine, personally. Cook is a nifty choice too, though.

That said, I thought Sundin was the best option of the four presented. You can't teach the combination of size / skill like he had (which some might value more than pure scoring, a comparable for which could almost certainly be had at a later round pick) and the stats don't show how he got absolutely mauled by defenders due to the era in which he played.

 

[UnSandvich]

I agree with you Sundin is going a bit soon, but he's also not one to scoff at in this position.

My vote would have been for Pat Lafontaine, personally. Cook is a nifty choice too, though.

That said, I thought Sundin was the best option of the four presented. You can't teach the combination of size / skill like he had (which some might value more than pure scoring, a comparable for which could almost certainly be had at a later round pick) and the stats don't show how he got absolutely mauled by defenders due to the era in which he played.

I would've had him at least 2nd behind Kharlamov. Maybe 3rd behind Shanahan

 

[UncleRisto]

I would've had him at least 2nd behind Kharlamov. Maybe 3rd behind Shanahan

Shanahan would've been a better choice and that's OBVIOUS, GUYS!

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

Shanahan would've been a better choice and that's OBVIOUS, GUYS!

How is he still on the board?!?!?! (didn't notice that)

 

[MartinSkoulYa]

I mean, there’s obviously better all-time choices that were on the board still, but given that those names left on the board played like 100 years ago or were more renown overseas, it’s not THAT surprising to end up with names like these.

 

[dahrougem2]

I guess my confusion is with the lack of anything approaching individual accolades or awards. They had 2 end of season All-Stars (both second team) between them. Gilmour had 2 Top 5 Hart finishes over 20 years, Sundin had 1 Top 10 finish. 1 Messier, 1 Selke, 1 Cup between them. Neither led the league in points, goals, assists, etc. once over their careers. In comparison, to use the Bill Cook example from last thread, he had 2 2nd place finishes in Hart voting, 2 Cup Wins, was a 4 time All-star, led the league in points & goals twice each, and finished Top 10 in both categories multiple times (8 times in goals over 10 seasons, 7 times in points).

It's gotta be recency bias, and it's not just you guys, Sundin's been getting votes since midway through the 1st round of this. (also sorry if i'm coming across as ranty or aggressive, work suuuucks and i'm exhausted and just want cyberpunk 2077 to come out so i can distract myself from this hellhole of a year)

But the problem with your Bill Cook example is that there was FAR less competition and skill in the league compared to when Gilmour/Sundin were playing. That plays a big factor.

 

[McMetal]

I guess my confusion is with the lack of anything approaching individual accolades or awards. They had 2 end of season All-Stars (both second team) between them. Gilmour had 2 Top 5 Hart finishes over 20 years, Sundin had 1 Top 10 finish. 1 Messier, 1 Selke, 1 Cup between them. Neither led the league in points, goals, assists, etc. once over their careers. In comparison, to use the Bill Cook example from last thread, he had 2 2nd place finishes in Hart voting, 2 Cup Wins, was a 4 time All-star, led the league in points & goals twice each, and finished Top 10 in both categories multiple times (8 times in goals over 10 seasons, 7 times in points).

It's gotta be recency bias, and it's not just you guys, Sundin's been getting votes since midway through the 1st round of this. (also sorry if i'm coming across as ranty or aggressive, work suuuucks and i'm exhausted and just want cyberpunk 2077 to come out so i can distract myself from this hellhole of a year)

It depends on what you're looking for in this draft, though. Are you looking at their peak, or their career overall? Sundin was a remarkably consistent scorer well into his 30s. He posted a 30+ goal, PPG season at age 37. He never torched the league at any point, but maintaining that high level of play so late into what would be the declining years of most players has to count for something.

 

[UncleRisto]

Sorry guys, the vote has to be voided because @Koolboss voted for Sundin. Instead, we're choosing Shanahan.