OT: NHL All-Time Draft, Round 2

[UnSandvich]

Hello again from the NYR Boards. Due to requests from multiple posters across the boards, I've decided to continue the All Time draft into a second round. The rules for this draft are as follows, if you did not remember:

1. Every team gets a single pick in the round, and the draft order follows the standings as of 3/20/2020 (the first day of the draft). So even if a team traded its 1st Round pick in the 2020 NHL Entry Draft, they still get a choice in this draft.
2. All retired/inactive NHL players are considered eligible for this draft (including guys playing overseas like Jagr). This also includes players like Tretiak who never had an NHL career but are hockey legends in their own right. All active NHL players, as well as players whose rights are owned by an NHL team, are ineligible
3. It is assumed that player abilities are "up-to-date" with the modern game, so a player like Eddie Shore who played in a far different NHL will not be at a disadvantage compared to say Wayne Gretzky or Jaromir Jagr
4. All players will be drafted into the organization at the age of 18, similar to the NHL Entry Draft
5. It is assumed that players will have a similar ceiling to during their playing career, and have the ability to reach said ceiling, although this is not guaranteed. Similarly, they are not guaranteed to suffer the same injury woes they did during their career (should that be relevant)
6. I'll give 2-3 days for votes to come in before the next team goes on the clock.
7. In the event of a tie, I will set up a tiebreaker poll
8. Please check the below post before voting for a player, as it's possible they have already been taken. And remember again, active players are ineligible.

Click to read more...

 

[UnSandvich]

32. Detroit Red Wings (1st round pick- Wayne Gretzky) - Sergei Fedorov
33. Ottawa Senators (Mario Lemieux) - Teemu Selanne
34. San Jose Sharks (Bobby Orr) - Stan Mikita
35. Los Angeles Kings (Gordie Howe)- Marcel Dionne
36. Anaheim Ducks (Jaromir Jagr) - Larry Robinson
37. New Jersey Devils (Nicklas Lidstrom) - Scott Stevens
38. Buffalo Sabres (Dominik Hasek) - Gilbert Perreault
39. Montreal Canadiens (Jean Beliveau) - Brett Hull
40. Chicago Blackhawks (Mark Messier) - Chris Chelios
41. Arizona Coyotes (Eric Lindros) - Bryan Trottier
42. Minnesota Wild (Joe Sakic) - Frank Mahovlich
43. Vancouver Canucks (Steve Yzerman) - Scott Niedermayer
44. Nashville Predators (Peter Forsberg) - Jacques Plante
45. Florida Panthers (Pavel Bure) - On the Clock
46. Calgary Flames (Mike Bossy) -
47. New York Rangers (Maurice Richard) -
48. Winnipeg Jets (Dale Hawerchuk) -
49. New York Islanders (Denis Potvin) -
50. Columbus Blue Jackets (Guy Lafleur) -
51. Toronto Maple Leafs (Patrick Roy) -
52. Carolina Hurricanes (Ray Bourque) -
53. Dallas Stars (Doug Harvey) -
54. Edmonton Oilers (Bobby Hull) -
55. Vegas Golden Knights (Martin Brodeur) -
56. Pittsburgh Penguins (Ron Francis) -
57. Philadelphia Flyers (Bobby Clarke) -
58. Washington Capitals (Phil Esposito) -
59. Tampa Bay Lightning (Eddie Shore) -
60. Colorado Avalanche (Paul Coffey) -
61. St Louis Blues (Chris Pronger) -
62. Boston Bruins (Howie Morenz) -

 

[UnSandvich]

Voting:
I'll update this comment as each new vote comes in, but I can only count it if it's a single player vote (so not "Shore or Harvey" for example). If you're changing your vote later on, that's fine, just make a note of it. I apologize in advance if I am delayed in adding your vote, I am now working full-time so have much less free time on my hands

Ken Dryden (1)- RealHumanBean
Sprague Cleghorn (2)-StrangeVision, pantherbot
Brain Leetch (2)- Dread Clawz, IM Clutcm
Newsy Lalonde (1)- Cold Cat
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Sandvich's Best on the Board(tm):

C: Adam Oates, Red Kelly (C/D), Frank Nighbor, Alex Delvecchio, Cyclone Taylor (C/D), Frank Boucher, Henri Richard, Syl Apps, Newsy Lalonde
LW/RW: Brendan Shanahan, Ted Lindsay, Dit Clapper (RW/D), Jarome Iginla, Cam Neely, Bill Cook, Sergei Makarov, Valeri Kharlamov, Jari Kurri, Charlie Conacher, Bernie Geoffrion
D: Brad Park, Brian Leetch, Slava Fetisov, Al MacInnis, Larry Murphy, Pierre Pilote, King Clancy, Tim Horton, Bill Gadsby, Sprague Cleghorn, Earl Seibert
G: Terry Sawchuk, Vladislav Tretiak, Ken Dryden, Glenn Hall

 

[pantherbot]

I'll go with Henri Richard, can't have too many rockets on a team right? Tempted by Sawchuk, but feel like goal may be easier to fill

 

[UnSandvich]

Congratulations, HFPanthers. You have now tied the number of votes HFPredators cast. Please, break the tie

 

[RealHumanBean]

Alright I'll do another habs legend then.
POOTIS vote for Ken Dryden

 

[StrangeVision]

Sprague Cleghorn. What a name, he gets my vote.

 

[UnSandvich]

Sprague Cleghorn. What a name, he gets my vote.

Yeah, he's pretty high up there on the all-time NHL names list.

Per wikipedia:
"A tough and physical defenseman, Cleghorn had a reputation for violent play; he was twice charged with assault following on-ice incidents and was subject to efforts to have him banned from the NHL. His reputation made him an effective defender, and he used his offensive skill to become one of hockey's first offensive defencemen. At the time of his retirement, Cleghorn's 169 career goals were second most in professional hockey history by a defenceman, behind Cyclone Taylor's 181."

"Known for both his intense competitive nature and violent temper, Cleghorn was considered one of the toughest and dirtiest players of his time. Respected by his teammates and hated by his opponents, Cleghorn often used his stick as a weapon and was routinely among his team's leaders in both goals and penalty minutes. He claimed to have been involved in at least fifty incidents during his career in which a player left the ice on a stretcher. In the season when Ottawa unsuccessfully attempted to have him banned from the NHL, Cleghorn led the league in penalty minutes with 80. According to some accounts, Evelyn Byng, Viscountess Byng of Vimy, was so mortified by Cleghorn's style that she donated the Lady Byng Trophy to the NHL in 1924 in a bid to encourage more sportsmanlike play."

 

[StrangeVision]

Yeah, he's pretty high up there on the all-time NHL names list.

Per wikipedia:
"A tough and physical defenseman, Cleghorn had a reputation for violent play; he was twice charged with assault following on-ice incidents and was subject to efforts to have him banned from the NHL. His reputation made him an effective defender, and he used his offensive skill to become one of hockey's first offensive defencemen. At the time of his retirement, Cleghorn's 169 career goals were second most in professional hockey history by a defenceman, behind Cyclone Taylor's 181."

"Known for both his intense competitive nature and violent temper, Cleghorn was considered one of the toughest and dirtiest players of his time. Respected by his teammates and hated by his opponents, Cleghorn often used his stick as a weapon and was routinely among his team's leaders in both goals and penalty minutes. He claimed to have been involved in at least fifty incidents during his career in which a player left the ice on a stretcher. In the season when Ottawa unsuccessfully attempted to have him banned from the NHL, Cleghorn led the league in penalty minutes with 80. According to some accounts, Evelyn Byng, Viscountess Byng of Vimy, was so mortified by Cleghorn's style that she donated the Lady Byng Trophy to the NHL in 1924 in a bid to encourage more sportsmanlike play."

That's like Happy Gilmore bragging about taking off his skate and trying to stab someone with it, awesome.

 

[pantherbot]

Yeah, he's pretty high up there on the all-time NHL names list.

Per wikipedia:
"A tough and physical defenseman, Cleghorn had a reputation for violent play; he was twice charged with assault following on-ice incidents and was subject to efforts to have him banned from the NHL. His reputation made him an effective defender, and he used his offensive skill to become one of hockey's first offensive defencemen. At the time of his retirement, Cleghorn's 169 career goals were second most in professional hockey history by a defenceman, behind Cyclone Taylor's 181."

"Known for both his intense competitive nature and violent temper, Cleghorn was considered one of the toughest and dirtiest players of his time. Respected by his teammates and hated by his opponents, Cleghorn often used his stick as a weapon and was routinely among his team's leaders in both goals and penalty minutes. He claimed to have been involved in at least fifty incidents during his career in which a player left the ice on a stretcher. In the season when Ottawa unsuccessfully attempted to have him banned from the NHL, Cleghorn led the league in penalty minutes with 80. According to some accounts, Evelyn Byng, Viscountess Byng of Vimy, was so mortified by Cleghorn's style that she donated the Lady Byng Trophy to the NHL in 1924 in a bid to encourage more sportsmanlike play."

Wow that's awesome. Ok I change my vote to this guy.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Brian Leetch without question

 

[IM Clutcm]

Brian Leetch without question

Seconded.

 

[Prominence Problem]

Newsy Lalonde. Assuming point three is in play, then this shouldn't even be close.

99 gp, 124 g, 151 pts

 

[pantherbot]

Newsy Lalonde. Assuming point three is in play, then this shouldn't even be close.

99 gp, 124 g, 151 pts

Only 27 assists? I don't want some puck hog on my team! Great name though...

 

[Dread Clawz]

Newsy Lalonde. Assuming point three is in play, then this shouldn't even be close.

99 gp, 124 g, 151 pts

Lalonde was alright, but better than Leetch???Dryden??? I would say Nighbor is better from the same era and arguably Boucher.

 

[UnSandvich]

Lalonde was alright, but better than Leetch???Dryden??? I would say Nighbor is better from the same era and arguably Boucher.

Shhhhh, don't bring up Nighbor. I want him to slip to the Rangers

 

[StrangeVision]

Come on, guys. Sprague Cleghorn. You can't beat that.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Come on, guys. Sprague Cleghorn. You can't beat that.

Eh, name is cool and all, but it's literally a slap in the face not to vote for Brian Leetch. He's possibly the best American player of all time. Maybe I'm one of the geezers on this board, but he was an amazing defenseman who seemed like he never got tired of skating. If he were playing today he'd be better than any other defenseman.

 

[StrangeVision]

Eh, name is cool and all, but it's literally a slap in the face not to vote for Brian Leetch. He's possibly the best American player of all time. Maybe I'm one of the geezers on this board, but he was an amazing defenseman who seemed like he never got tired of skating. If he were playing today he'd be better than any other defenseman.

Are we trying to put together a legit team? Because we've kind of sabotaged that effort already with our first pick. If we're doing this legitimately, it's between Red Kelly, Slava Fetisov, and Glenn Hall.

But if we're picking whoever we want, Sprague Cleghorn.

 

[UnSandvich]

Eh, name is cool and all, but it's literally a slap in the face not to vote for Brian Leetch. He's possibly the best American player of all time. Maybe I'm one of the geezers on this board, but he was an amazing defenseman who seemed like he never got tired of skating. If he were playing today he'd be better than any other defenseman.

To be fair to Cleghorn, this list has him significantly higher than Leetch (C 57, L 97)
Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time (The Third)

And this ATD on the board devoted to them has Leetch just ahead (L 50, C 53)
ATD 2020 Draft Thread V

He's a legitimately great player besides the name, we just don't think about him much because of how long ago he played, compared to a guy like Leetch. Look at guys like Eddie Shore and Howie Morenz, both of them should've gone way higher than they did (and the only reason they went where they did is b/c i'd been prodding multiple consecutive teams about them)

 

[Dread Clawz]

To be fair to Cleghorn, this list has him significantly higher than Leetch (C 57, L 97)
Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time (The Third)

And this ATD on the board devoted to them has Leetch just ahead (L 50, C 53)
ATD 2020 Draft Thread V

He's a legitimately great player besides the name, we just don't think about him much because of how long ago he played, compared to a guy like Leetch. Look at guys like Eddie Shore and Howie Morenz, both of them should've gone way higher than they did (and the only reason they went where they did is b/c i'd been prodding multiple consecutive teams about them)

Oh, believe me, I know all about Cleghorn. I do know quite a bit about the early era of the game. I was pushing hard for Morenz over Bure at #15. Morenz was basically the Ovechkin of the early days, but even more dominant. Plus he was one of the best backcheckers of his day. Him and Shore were probably unmatched as all round players until a good 20 years after their heyday when Howe showed up on the scene.

I just think Leetch is criminally underrated and always has been. He played in the golden age of defensemen yet still, look at his trophies, accolades, and accomplishments. He should definitely be in the top 45. Prime Leetch is one of the best hockey players I've ever seen, I mean the '94 run was just a masterful stretch of hockey that he put together. He was a complete force at both ends of the ice. There was no doubt who was getting the Conn Smythe that year. Talk about an athlete. He could skate with the best of all time, and he never seemed to be tired. His conditioning level was insane. He was far more well rounded than Paul Coffey, and despite the offense if I could pick one for my team, I'm picking Leetch . Just a brilliant hockey player. As much as I respect Cleghorn, he was never at the level of a hockey player that Leetch was.

 

[UnSandvich]

Oh, believe me, I know all about Cleghorn. I do know quite a bit about the early era of the game. I was pushing hard for Morenz over Bure at #15. Morenz was basically the Ovechkin of the early days, but even more dominant. Plus he was one of the best backcheckers of his day. Him and Shore were probably unmatched as all round players until a good 20 years after their heyday when Howe showed up on the scene.

I just think Leetch is criminally underrated and always has been. He played in the golden age of defensemen yet still, look at his trophies, accolades, and accomplishments. He should definitely be in the top 45. Prime Leetch is one of the best hockey players I've ever seen, I mean the '94 run was just a masterful stretch of hockey that he put together. He was a complete force at both ends of the ice. There was no doubt who was getting the Conn Smythe that year. Talk about an athlete. He could skate with the best of all time, and he never seemed to be tired. His conditioning level was insane. He was far more well rounded than Paul Coffey, and despite the offense if I could pick one for my team, I'm picking Leetch . Just a brilliant hockey player. As much as I respect Cleghorn, he was never at the level of a hockey player that Leetch was.

Oh trust me, I'm a Rangers fan. You're preaching to the choir about Leetch to me lol

 

[pantherbot]

Oh, believe me, I know all about Cleghorn. I do know quite a bit about the early era of the game. I was pushing hard for Morenz over Bure at #15. Morenz was basically the Ovechkin of the early days, but even more dominant. Plus he was one of the best backcheckers of his day. Him and Shore were probably unmatched as all round players until a good 20 years after their heyday when Howe showed up on the scene.

I just think Leetch is criminally underrated and always has been. He played in the golden age of defensemen yet still, look at his trophies, accolades, and accomplishments. He should definitely be in the top 45. Prime Leetch is one of the best hockey players I've ever seen, I mean the '94 run was just a masterful stretch of hockey that he put together. He was a complete force at both ends of the ice. There was no doubt who was getting the Conn Smythe that year. Talk about an athlete. He could skate with the best of all time, and he never seemed to be tired. His conditioning level was insane. He was far more well rounded than Paul Coffey, and despite the offense if I could pick one for my team, I'm picking Leetch . Just a brilliant hockey player. As much as I respect Cleghorn, he was never at the level of a hockey player that Leetch was.

Sure... But it's Leetch axing anybody with his stick? Guy was a gentleman. I just looked up his awards because I thought he won the byng one year but he didn't, probably because Gretzky won it every year back then, but Leetch did win the Rangers' Good Guy award...I mean come on. Give me the mean guy that nobody wants to meet around with

 

[Dread Clawz]

Sure... But it's Leetch axing anybody with his stick? Guy was a gentleman. I just looked up his awards because I thought he won the byng one year but he didn't, probably because Gretzky won it every year back then, but Leetch did win the Rangers' Good Guy award...I mean come on. Give me the mean guy that nobody wants to meet around with

What does that matter though? Leetch didn't have to. Aside from the fact that they're two completely different eras(Cleghorn wouldn't have lasted 5 games into his career if he started in the 80's), Leetch was too busy dominating offensively and actually playing defense, and having one of the most dominant postseasons of all time by any player, not trying to chop someone's head off. Leetch would hit when he had someone lined up, I still remember his beauty hip check on Gelinas in the '94 Final when Gelinas tried to slip past him.

 

[UnSandvich]

I have added a tiebreaker poll between Leetch and Cleghorn. It will be active for the next 48 or so hours