NFL To The GTA Possible?

[Centrum Hockey]

Goodell: Toronto Would Make Great NFL Market, but Stadium Needed - Football Stadium Digest
Roger Goodell says it is defiantly a viable market

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[93LEAFS]

It is viable, but I see no way they are going to get public funding to build a stadium (and I think finding the land will be difficult, maybe old portlands or Downsview park). Without the public building a stadium, I can't see an owner just deciding to move here. Skydome is too outdated to be appealing. The other issue is finding an owner. The NFL ownership rules makes MLSE unacceptable.

 

[Mightygoose]

The NFL's economic model really hurts Toronto's chances for an NFL team.

The league is fuelled by TV money more specifically nationally as opposed to regional due the small number of games played. A team in Toronto wouldn't add enough value for the other owners to expand and divide the pie too. Which US network would really want Toronto vs. team X? Worst sell for adds. Same reason why the Jays hardly appear on US national TV and if they make the playoffs, they'll get the dog time slots as long as possible. Canada is already watching the NFL in big numbers so no reason to expand here.

Relocation is a long shot too. Spending 1.5-2 billion on a stadium and have a US based owner move their team here won't happen. When was the last time a team was moved via sale?

If the NFL wants to put a team outside of it's border, London makes more sense. A much larger market plus there would be more games in a different time zones which means a new TV package to sell. Toronto doesn't offer that.

 

[cowboy82nd]

The NFL's economic model really hurts Toronto's chances for an NFL team.

The league is fuelled by TV money more specifically nationally as opposed to regional due the small number of games played. A team in Toronto wouldn't add enough value for the other owners to expand and divide the pie too. Which US network would really want Toronto vs. team X? Worst sell for adds. Same reason why the Jays hardly appear on US national TV and if they make the playoffs, they'll get the dog time slots as long as possible. Canada is already watching the NFL in big numbers so no reason to expand here.

Relocation is a long shot too. Spending 1.5-2 billion on a stadium and have a US based owner move their team here won't happen. When was the last time a team was moved via sale?

If the NFL wants to put a team outside of it's border, London makes more sense. A much larger market plus there would be more games in a different time zones which means a new TV package to sell. Toronto doesn't offer that.

No, London doesn't. The travel alone kills London. Toronto makes more sense to me. Less travel and an established fan base.

 

[93LEAFS]

The NFL's economic model really hurts Toronto's chances for an NFL team.

The league is fuelled by TV money more specifically nationally as opposed to regional due the small number of games played. A team in Toronto wouldn't add enough value for the other owners to expand and divide the pie too. Which US network would really want Toronto vs. team X? Worst sell for adds. Same reason why the Jays hardly appear on US national TV and if they make the playoffs, they'll get the dog time slots as long as possible. Canada is already watching the NFL in big numbers so no reason to expand here.

Relocation is a long shot too. Spending 1.5-2 billion on a stadium and have a US based owner move their team here won't happen. When was the last time a team was moved via sale?

If the NFL wants to put a team outside of it's border, London makes more sense. A much larger market plus there would be more games in a different time zones which means a new TV package to sell. Toronto doesn't offer that.

Seems Kroenke's goal once he gained full control of the Rams was to get the team to LA, even if it wasn't immediate. It was always his plan.

Even though I agree with most of your takes. You do ignore the big-thing Toronto offers an individual owner. Since the NFL salary cap essentially fully comes out of the TV deal, and the population size and wealth in the Golden Horseshoe that could be an insanely profitable franchise. It would be among the NFL's largest markets that doesn't serve 2 teams, in a city that has a massive finance industry along with being the media hub for Toronto. Within a 90 minute drive of the center of Toronto, you have about 9.5 million people to draw from. It is as big as any CMA outside of NYC and LA. Pretty much all local revenue you get to keep outside of paying for non-player expenses. That is Toronto's big appeal individuall IF and it's a big if, they can ever work out a stadium.

As for network TV sales. It is the NFL, people always turn in any way due to fantasy and gambling. It is by far the least reliant on bringing in local viewers of all NA sports. Just look at how many national TV games Green Bay gets. Yes, its a historic franchise and draws from all of Wisconsin, but it is a tiny local market.

 

[Mightygoose]

No, London doesn't. The travel alone kills London. Toronto makes more sense to me. Less travel and an established fan base.

I don't think the travel is as much of an issue think anymore. Esepcially in a league where they only play 16 (17 in the future) games.

The Toronto Wolfpack of the Super League in Rugby is in it's 4th season being a trans-Atlantic team. A team will be starting up in the lower division in Ottawa and I believe one in New York.

If it can be done in Rugby League....which is smaller of the code from Union....it should be doable for the NFL

 

[cutchemist42]

Yeah it's not happening. They already make millions from Canada without needing the hassle of setting up a team and stadium. Tottenham already built the stadium with the NFL in mind plus it offers the chance to open up a new market.

Toronto also proved last time that they were too cheap and not rich enough to even outbid for the Bills.

It's not happening.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Yeah it's not happening. They already make millions from Canada without needing the hassle of setting up a team and stadium. Tottenham already built the stadium with the NFL in mind plus it offers the chance to open up a new market.

Toronto also proved last time that they were too cheap and not rich enough to even outbid for the Bills.

It's not happening.

The NFL Choose Pegula because he had buffalo ties. it would not have mattered if MLSE/Bon Jovi outbid Pegula for the bills like trump did.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Yeah it's not happening. They already make millions from Canada without needing the hassle of setting up a team and stadium. Tottenham already built the stadium with the NFL in mind plus it offers the chance to open up a new market.

Toronto also proved last time that they were too cheap and not rich enough to even outbid for the Bills.

It's not happening.

I get NFL isn't expanding just for Toronto, but what hassle would there be if Toronto group bought a team and move them if they manage to build a stadium there?

 

[cutchemist42]

I get NFL isn't expanding just for Toronto, but what hassle would there be if Toronto group bought a team and move them if they manage to build a stadium there?

Teams dont do the whole stadium racket on their own. The NFL uses its resources as well in that fight.

I'm just saying London is more ready than a Tornto while providing a ton more upside than Toronto. Richer larger city in a larger UK market with a stadium that was built with you in mind that is having a dual purpose use.

 

[Mightygoose]

Toronto's only chance in my view is if the league expands to a market they feel will grow the pie, say London and they need a second team so they can have a balanced schedule.

Of course a stadium will be needed. Rogers Centre is not suitable anymore and BMO Field can't be expanded big enough for the NFL's needs.

When was the last time a team was sold for relocation in the NFL? All relocations have been existing owners moving on their own with a better stadium deal in the new locale. No chance 1.5-2 billion of tax payers dollars will be used to lure a team here. Can't see why a US owner would want to move their team to Toronto either.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

If a hyperbillionaire wanted to put an NFL team in Omaha and started building a stadium, they'd get a team in fairly short order.

No real difference here, except with Toronto being a significantly more massive market and thereby making infinitely more sense or if there were any Canadian federal complications to protect the CFL from an NFL incursion.

Only question is if there's someone willing to pay God only knows how much in expansion fees for an NFL team. I honestly don't even know what the cost would be, but considering how much the NHL got away with from Vegas and Seattle, I wouldn't be surprised if the cost to entry was $2 billion for the NFL nowadays.

 

[NCRanger]

The 17 game schedule opens up Toronto as a neutral site game location.

I can legitimately see 4 games a year being played in Toronto, London, Mexico City, and Tokyo as the 17th game for everyone for the near future.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Teams dont do the whole stadium racket on their own. The NFL uses its resources as well in that fight.

I'm just saying London is more ready than a Tornto while providing a ton more upside than Toronto. Richer larger city in a larger UK market with a stadium that was built with you in mind that is having a dual purpose use.

Stan Kroenke did.

 

[LeHab]

Wiki has a good summary of efforts to bring a franchise into the area:

National Football League in Toronto - Wikipedia

 

[LeHab]

Only question is if there's someone willing to pay God only knows how much in expansion fees for an NFL team. I honestly don't even know what the cost would be, but considering how much the NHL got away with from Vegas and Seattle, I wouldn't be surprised if the cost to entry was $2 billion for the NFL nowadays.

If we are to rely on Forbes numbers the lowest NFL franchise value is around 2B, average is about 2.8B. Relocating one of these "cheap one" would also incur a relocation fee + assumption of debt. In 1999 when Houston was awarded a new franchise, fee was 700M when the average value was reported to be around 400M. We are likely looking at +$3B for a franchise either way + new stadium. Maybe Bezos has a bit of change to spare?