Next World Cup?

[jekoh]

In my opinion the best way to grow the game is by making the big tournaments as elite, as exciting, as competetive as possible, and you do that by limiting the number of teams. That is how you get more people to watch, not by adding teams that aren't ready to compete.

It's all about having a good product.

Yeah, I'm sure Italians or Austrians, or any other people for that matter, are a lot more likely to watch if their country does not play.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Yeah, I'm sure Italians or Austrians, or any other people for that matter, are a lot more likely to watch if their country does not play.

So say you've got Italy playing Finland in a big tournament. Who's going to watch?
Some Italian fans maybe, hardly any Finns, because they know it is a mismatch, and the rest of the world sure ain't going to watch that.
Now say instead of Italy, Finland is playing Russia, now you've got a product that Hockey fans around the world are going to want to watch. Now you're reaching fans in Slovenia, fans in Italy, fans in Canada, fans everywhere.

 

[jekoh]

So say you've got Italy playing Finland in a big tournament. Who's going to watch?
Some Italian fans maybe, hardly any Finns, because they know it is a mismatch, and the rest of the world sure ain't going to watch that. Now say instead of Italy, Finland is playing Russia, now you've got a product that Hockey fans around the world are going to want to watch. Now you're reaching fans in Slovenia, fans in Italy, fans in Canada, fans everywhere.

That's BS. Nobody outside the big-7 is going to watch it. Won't even be on tv in most countries, why the hell would it be ? You want to be an elitist, fine, but don't claim most people would like it when everything points in the other direction. Or that it will grow hockey, it has never grown anything. This elitism is also one reason why so many people even in the big-7 countries don't give a fück about the World Cup, supposedly a higher-calibre tournament than the World Championships.

Also it's funny you choose Finland as your example because had your elitist views been implemented back then, Finland most probably would never have been a big-7 country.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

That's BS. Nobody outside the big-7 is going to watch it. Won't even be on tv in most countries, why the hell would it be ? You want to be an elitist, fine, but don't claim most people would like it when everything points in the other direction. Or that it will grow hockey, it has never grown anything. This elitism is also one reason why so many people even in the big-7 countries don't give a fück about the World Cup, supposedly a higher-calibre tournament than the World Championships.

Also it's funny you choose Finland as your example because had your elitist views been implemented back then, Finland most probably would never have been a big-7 country.

Don't feel bad, you're not the first poster to give up and resort to name calling. The tone of your post seems a little angry, it must be hard to realize you've been wrong all this time.

Obviously no one likes being called an elitist, considering what the word really means in every day terms. But in this context you are right, I am an elitist. I enjoy watching elite hockey. If you think about it every competetive sports league is essentially elitest, because if you're not good enough, you don't play.

The World Cup, being run by and played in North America, definitely gives Canada and the US an advantage. Just like IIHF tournament rules and rinks give Europeans an advantage. The difference between the World Championships and the World Cup are the quality of players who attend. The other difference is that the European clubs aren't really that competetive with Canada when playing by NHL rules.

The rise of Finland, Sweden or any other elite hockey nation has nothing to do what international tournaments they attended. They are all in places where outdoor skating is popular, and the people naturally fell in love with the game.

Producing good players has little or nothing to do with the Olympics or the World Cup. Look at Vanek, Huet, and Kopitar, they all come from nations that basically never play in elite tournaments.

 

[jekoh]

But in this context you are right, I am an elitist. I enjoy watching elite hockey.

You're in the minority. Noone cares about the World Cup despite the "quality". Even on a NA forum you hardly find anyone to agree with you

 

[Tb0ne]

The rise of Finland, Sweden or any other elite hockey nation has nothing to do what international tournaments they attended. They are all in places where outdoor skating is popular, and the people naturally fell in love with the game.

Producing good players has little or nothing to do with the Olympics or the World Cup. Look at Vanek, Huet, and Kopitar, they all come from nations that basically never play in elite tournaments.

I've been told there was a time when Finland and Norway were roughly on a similar level when it came to Ice Hockey. Things diverged when Finland took on a program to build as many indoor and outdoor rinks as they could. We obviously see the results of that decision today as Finland has finished 2nd in the past two major elite competitions (World Cup and the 06 Olympics) while Norway nearly got relegated at the World Championships.

Building rinks around the world and lowering the price of equipment probably would do more for 'growing the game' than including weaker teams in the elite tournements ever would. The question is though that after Switzerland beat Canada, can we justify keeping them out anymore?

Big 7
Canada
USA
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
Finland
Slovakia

Small 7
Germany
Switzerland
Belarus
Denmark
Latvia
Norway
Kazakhstan/Slovenia/Ukraine/Italy

I guess the question is where do we draw the line? 8 teams or 10 for the next World Cup?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

You're in the minority. Noone cares about the World Cup despite the "quality". Even on a NA forum you hardly find anyone to agree with you

I think you are refering to one of my orignal posts where I suggested they turn the Olympics into an under 20 tournament, and that the IIHF hold a legitimate "World Cup" every four years. I have obviously confused you, because a "World Cup" run by the IIHF doesn't have anything to do with the "World Cup" the NHL has held in the past. It's just the name that most sports use for their big tournament.

I know that Europeans didn't care about the NHL version of the "World Cup", just as North Americans don't care about the IIHF World Championships. I'm not going to tell you what you should like or shouldn't like.
Once again you've missed the point.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The question is though that after Switzerland beat Canada, can we justify keeping them out anymore?

I guess the question is where do we draw the line? 8 teams or 10 for the next World Cup?

I'm not convinced that Switzerland's victory over Canada, or the Belarus victory over Sweden mean anything. In my mind it is more a case of Canadian and Swedish apathy than anything else, and also that teams comprising of NHLers have less time to prepare for the tournament. Let's not forget what happened to Belarus when they played Canada in the semi's, and how Sweden threw their game against the Slovaks, just so they could smoke the Swiss in the QF.
A better measure of a nations development is the number of elite players they produce. Despite Switzerland supposedly being on the cusp of joining the Big 7 for years now, as of last year there was only one Swiss player good enough to play regularily in the NHL.

Even if a team shows promise of one day being competetive, then absolutely let them in. For me 8 is a good number for now.

 

[nyrmetros]

we need a 2008 IIHF World Cup of Hockey !!!!

 

[Ribban]

Kanadensisk means Canadian in Swedish. I am married to a Swede, my kids are dual Swedish / Canadian citizens.

The Sweden - Finland rivalry is one of the greatest in hockey. It is like the Leafs -Canadiens of the old days. I have never heard a Swede or a Finn say they are bored with those games. Look at their TV numbers from the last Olympics.

Finland was ruled by Sweden for a long time. There is a lot of history there, and there is no team each other would rather beat than their neighbour across the Golf of Bothnia.

Well said.... But It would be nice to see Finland disappear from the hockey map nevertheless.