Speculation: Next Flyer to Reach 100 Points in a Season.

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,647
138,659
Philadelphia, PA
I think there's way bigger issues than shot blocking personally.

I think the game has gotten too fast to the point where the refs are afraid to make calls as much as they used to.
 

bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
14,303
6,344
I wont put it past Bettman to go right back to the strict penalty calling of 06. It'll just happen one season and scoring will jump. It will probably coincide with smaller goalie equipment and hopefully the removal of the trapezoid. If those things were done we'd have multiple 100+ scorers in the league. McDavid might even reach some lofty numbers in that environment as well, thus helping cement his "next one" status

Why would removing the trapezoid increase offense?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,033
Nova Scotia
While I agree shot blocking has become a major strategic of coaches, I don't think there is much you can do about it. What happens if there is a 2 on 1? A defenseman can't lay out to block a pass/shot? It just almost seems too "un-hockey like" to not be able to lay out in front of a slap shot.

The reason for laying down is to take up more ice to stop a pass from going across. Well, that's why you have a stick, IQ, hand coordination, etc...Use the talents of the players, not waste them.

We have gone from a game when only 1-2 forwards on a team would leave their feet to block a shot, it everyone doing it because they have so much padding to protect them. As Jorz said, make it hurt...bring back the pain.
 

Cyborg LeClair

Thank You Mr. Snider
Nov 18, 2011
3,935
113
Jurassic Park
Why would removing the trapezoid increase offense?

Goalies could make more plays from behind the red line...but you're right, it would also stop more dump and chase plays. But is that really a bad thing? It would force more creativity needed to enter the zone with possession, especially if they crack down on the zone entry interference that is rampant.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
The reason for laying down is to take up more ice to stop a pass from going across. Well, that's why you have a stick, IQ, hand coordination, etc...Use the talents of the players, not waste them.

We have gone from a game when only 1-2 forwards on a team would leave their feet to block a shot, it everyone doing it because they have so much padding to protect them. As Jorz said, make it hurt...bring back the pain.

Not every team does it, but something that seemed wrong was Torts in Vancouver and trying to get the [sic] Sedins to slide. I don'the mind the 2 on 1 slide to block a pass, but when there's five players on D and there are two forwards sliding from the top of the circles and the slot, that seems unsportsman-like.

Typically the effect of sliding is the hail-marry aspect of taking oneself out the play. The 2v1, or breakaway dive kinda encapsulate that. The above block party frenzy state of the game doesn't include that potentially perilous decision because the rest of the team is behind the sliding player.

A bias from rugby, but the sport was not designed to be played with players prone on the floor (special exception for the goalie.)

Thanks for the few folks whom agree.
 

PALE PWNR

Registered User
Jul 10, 2010
13,124
3,285
Sewell NJ
That's always been Tortorella's MO though, when Tampa Bay went to the SCF that's all the announcers would talk about, is how Tortorella got everyone to buy in, even the skill players St. Louis, Richards and Lecavalier. He's made a career off of it.
 

Hiesenberg

Registered User
Jul 2, 2013
15,576
1,875
I think the evolution of defenseman is really the reason. You can see it now, most of the teams best players are d-men, they have 2-4 sometimes that could probably be forwards if they so choose.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
That's always been Tortorella's MO though, when Tampa Bay went to the SCF that's all the announcers would talk about, is how Tortorella got everyone to buy in, even the skill players St. Louis, Richards and Lecavalier. He's made a career off of it.

He's the easiest to spot, but far from alone. Lavy is on the other side of the scale, but I reckon most are closer to Torts.

I recommend the slide penalty because there's no judgement in it. It would be the easiest penalty to call short of the Hartnett glove throwing play. I like the human element of reffing, but even they couldn't blow that call. (Maybe it'seems permissible on the PK, there's room for compromise.)
 

BringBackHakstol

Registered User
Oct 25, 2005
20,408
11,052
Philadelphia
He's the easiest to spot, but far from alone. Lavy is on the other side of the scale, but I reckon most are closer to Torts.

I recommend the slide penalty because there's no judgement in it. It would be the easiest penalty to call short of the Hartnett glove throwing play. I like the human element of reffing, but even they couldn't blow that call. (Maybe it'seems permissible on the PK, there's room for compromise.)

I think there would actually be a lot of subjectivity to it. What happens when a guy drops to one knee? Or comes close to it? What happens when there's a lot of traffic in front of the net and players are battling, and the defensive player gets knocked over and the puck hits him?

I think there's other much more effective ways with less grey area and less impact on the mechanics of the game. I would try those first (limit obstruction, scale back goalie pads). The obstruction change has effects from 2 angles - increased power plays as well as opening the game up. That one just seems so obvious to me that I can't understand why nothing has been done with it
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
I think there would actually be a lot of subjectivity to it. What happens when a guy drops to one knee? Or comes close to it? What happens when there's a lot of traffic in front of the net and players are battling, and the defensive player gets knocked over and the puck hits him?

I think there's other much more effective ways with less grey area and less impact on the mechanics of the game. I would try those first (limit obstruction, scale back goalie pads). The obstruction change has effects from 2 angles - increased power plays as well as opening the game up. That one just seems so obvious to me that I can't understand why nothing has been done with it

The two questions you posed aren't penalties. There's a difference between sliding to block a shot with Noone around you and getting knocked over in a battle and the puck accidently striking the falling/prone player.

Going down on one knee is out of left field, was never posed as a penalty.

If a straight line can be drawn from puck, through a voluntarily sliding player with no skates perpendicular to the ice, to the goal, that's a penalty.

I'm all for calling the penalties on the book, but there's a lot of ambiguity. The sliding rule doesn't have that.

Sliding to block shots is not a positive mechanic in the sport when most people are attempting to find ways to increase scoring.
 
Last edited:

Damaged Goods

Registered User
Feb 26, 2009
2,289
39
Philadelphia
I can't remember where I read this, but I think there's a theory out there that more obstruction was allowed back into the game to slow down the neutral zone and decrease the number of head injuries.

Edit: Here's something. Also this. Note the dates.
 

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
8,574
805
Frost-Bite Fails Minnesota
Lol how did Leino even make this list let alone get multiple votes???

:laugh:


... Look at the date the Poll was created 2/1/11... Not saying that he should have received any votes at all, but I'm guessing that that fresh off the 2010 SCF run and hot '09-'10 Season it didn't seem as crazy as it does now in retrospect... I assume three people at that moment in time believed he was off to a great NHL Career.


... And based on the great overpaying Contract the Sabres offered him, there was at least one person of power in the NHL who thought so also. :sarcasm:
 
Last edited:

Damaged Goods

Registered User
Feb 26, 2009
2,289
39
Philadelphia
It's not just the padding though. The goalies in today's game have gotten a lot bigger across the board while maintaining athleticism. A 6'4" 220 lbs. plus athlete like Mason would have been an outcast 15-20 years ago. Now a days it's not really uncommon. There's even a handful of guys in the league bigger than him.

It's not just the padding, but there's no good reason it should be so big. There have been a lot of cool innovations with the equipment, but last couple decades of goalie gear has gone contrary to the spirit of the game in regards to how large it is -- allowing goalies to become equipment operators who use material to block the net rather than having something that protects their bodies as they make saves.

If it's mainly about protecting the body, you can see just how out of proportion the pads are on a 6'2" listed goalie like Schneider when he is handling them (not to pick on him personally, just the video I came across). His blocker dwarfs his forearm and is more like a mini-shield, and the glove resembles a fishing net (I know blockers have always been big, but when body saves used to be more painful there was a justification for goalies wanting to make more saves with their hands. Those blockers were also heavier, flatter, and only had a front blocking surface).



If the league makes changes on the order proposed in this video, I think it can only have a positive effect on the game. The goalies have good enough technique that save percentages are not going to go plummeting, but it should bring the skill level of the best goalies to the fore and take away more saves from some of the rest. It may not "fix" scoring, but more of the shots that deserve to be goals will go in, and that is better for the sport.
 
Last edited:

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
8,574
805
Frost-Bite Fails Minnesota
These pictures clearly demonstrate the difference between the Goalie 'protection' equipment and the equipment that has been developed that goes far beyond protection.



a3fb66375f1ba2be468b39f5f6440ad1.jpg


Doug Favell circa 1967




one_parent05.jpg


Bernie Parent circa Mid '70s




1434_bernie_parent_s_.jpg


Pelle Lindbergh circa Early '80s.



hextall1.jpg


Ron Hextall circa Mid '90s



esche.jpg


Robert Esche circ Mid '00s



491040502-steve-mason-of-the-philadelphia-flyers-makes-gettyimages.jpg


Steve Mason 2015
 
Last edited:

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,647
138,659
Philadelphia, PA
The funny thing about Mason was that he was actually using much smaller pads compared to his size in Columbus. A trainer had to tell him he could bigger in his later years there.
 

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
8,574
805
Frost-Bite Fails Minnesota
We can't forget our very own legendary innovator, Garth Snow!

Voila_Capture-2014-11-20_04-41-00_PM1.jpg


snowpads.jpg


4580f6aae180164adff65b0b28fe8464.jpg


He paved the way for Hank.

henriknomask.jpg


very_large_20140827_112441.jpg




:laugh: I completely forgot about that Snow job... That was the worst ever.





... Who was the goalie they caught some time back with the mesh between his shorts legs used to help keep pucks from entering the Five Hole? I'm drawing a blank there but for some reason the Rangers stick in my mind... wasn't Lundqvist though.
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
5,826
1,363
Parent seems like he has some of the biggest pads of the bunch. Esche looks ridiculous...
 

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
8,574
805
Frost-Bite Fails Minnesota
Parent seems like he has some of the biggest pads of the bunch. Esche looks ridiculous...

I felt that Esche's leg pads certainly looked larger than Mason's... But Mason's are still much larger than those back in the prior century... Pelle's looked the smallest.

I see Bernie's leg pads being larger than Favell's and Lindbergh's but not the others... and certainly not larger in the blocker width nor the leg pad height.

Also the equipment has clearly developed to a more squared off and less form fitted over the years... and protection-wise, when feeling them it is obvious that they allow much more protection for the golie... so I don't know if the size really helps so much in that... besides stopping some angled shots from reaching some areas that are uncovered.

I believe the material used weighs less also... and IIRC absorbs less moisture, thus being lighter in tht aspect also.

It would be interesting to hear from the Goalies in the Forum on this... who surely have much more expertise on the matter.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,383
122,699
The fact that the NHL has even allowed pads to get to the point they are now is just one more indictment of Bettman in my mind.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->