Next city/metro area to get their first pro sports team

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
When you say first pro sports team, ECHL is pro hockey so does that count?? The better question may be, what city that does not currently have any of the big5 NA sports leagues will get a team next?

Austin can be taken off the list as MLS is coming there in 2021.

If you count CFL as one of the pro leagues, Atlantic Canada or Quebec City may be the realistic answer to the question

Based on census area (larger then city/metro), you have the following:
Hampton Roads VA - 1.854M - military town, has decent hockey history with Nofolk Admirals. Virginia Beach has been brought up for a new arena in the recent past. One of NBA/NHL/MLS are possible one day. It is also may be one of the only NFL opportunities with a stadium to catch the DC =/= VA crowd.
Providence RI - 1.834M - too close to Boston? Can you factor the NFL/MLS teams in Foxboro as being their team since PVD is closer to them than Boston is (29 vs 21 miles). I'd like to think one of MLB/NBA/NHL could work here
Greensboro-Winston-Salem NC - 1.677M - Likely too close to Charlotte or Raliegh to make inroads anywhere. What if they got the Carolina MLB team?
Louisville KY - 1.488M - It screams NBA for the KY basketball fever and fills a bit of a geographic void but MLB may also make sense - Welcome Louisville Bats!
Greenville SC - 1.478M - I can't see anything pro league going to SC - just like NC, lots of large city conglomerates. Greenville also sits right between Atlanta & Charlotte.
Hartford CT - 1.478M - Bring back the Whalers is the best option here. But similar to Providence - too much saturation in the US NE already? MLS or MLB could be options moreso too.
Grand Rapids MI - 1.406M - this city is bigger than we all think it is, admit it. But proximity to Detroit & Chicago makes this a tough sell for any sport.
Birmingham AL - 1.315M - almost every non-NFL league kicks the tires here. They have a capable NFL stadium to use today for the interim. I know lots of people here and all say, any pro team shows up, it will be supported.
Fresno CA - 1.303M - another case of "it's really that big?" They can't get their act together to be part of the AHL Pacific division, doubt they can do much else.
Then there 12 other cities between 1.0 and 1.3M areas: Harrisburg PA, Richmond VA, Fort Myers FL, Albany NY, Rochester NY, Albuquerque NM, Knoxville TN, Tulsa OK, Tucson AZ, Dayton OH, El Paso TX, Sarasota FL. Hard to see real options here moreso than the above listed.
Virginia isn't going to happen...tank..... especially Norfolk area..... that ship sailed when Hampton Roads as a regional moniker was blocked by the city of Norfolk..... hence why the Admirals had to adopt Norfolk as the center .

Providence has nothing to do with Boston, that was Hartford vs. Foxboro..

Louisville... already tried hockey (AFR's killed the sport, just as they did Elmira and Port Huron.... it's why Florida bailed.


the rest are established hockey markets that worked, then didn't, or have existing franchises.....
 

Hoser

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
1,846
403
The WHA was a major pro hockey league. If we’re counting 19th century baseball teams (or pre-merger ABA teams) then we might as well count WHA teams as well.

Whatever, I don't care how you want to cut it. Both Louisville and Birmingham won't be getting Big 4 pro sports anytime soon anyway.
 

Hoser

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
1,846
403
neither metro in Virginia can support pro franchises of the 4 majors.... hoser...... Richmond has been trying for years to have adequate facilities to entice a team and it hasn't happened..... Navy Hill was rejected after the demise of the Coliseum..... then you add in VCU and ODU, etc....

Note that I qualified my entire post by stating I didn't think any of them were likely at all. Really I think no major leagues are looking to move into any other markets, so from my perspective the original question is maybe more accurately termed "which city/metro is least unlikely to get a pro sports team".

Birmingham already is in line for a G-League franchise within 2-3 years operated by the Pelicans.

Austin is not likely because of Texas controlling arenas, otherwise why would theTexas Stars be in Cedar Park, not Austin, and that is a pro franchise

I thought the premise of this thread was "Big 4" major leagues, not the minors, otherwise the question would have been moot. Just about every city of some size in North America has had minor pro.

And you could quibble about the intricacies of local politics if you want, but Cedar Park = Austin.
 

tank44

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
639
163
Seattle, WA
Having population doesn't mean they can support a team.

the thread title is Next city/metro area to get their first pro sports team. I just listed the largest metros & their population that do not have a team in the big4 and some random notes on possible options. A city having a team in the 70s in one of the main or competitor leagues (frequently lasting <2 seasons) is somewhat irrelevant to how the city could cope in 2020 or beyond some 50 years later. Population is a major factor for this question as you need people to attend. Corporate support, college competition, etc are factors too but all play together.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,007
3,239
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
Everyone is saying Inland Empire is "basically a suburb of Los Angeles, so it will never happen" but Inland Empire ISN'T a suburb of LA, because that's what the metro area statistics define: Where people live vs work. If a community's work/commute stats are high enough to a core municipality, they are included in the metro area.

So Dallas/Ft. Worth is one metro
San Francisco/Oakland is one metro.... but San Jose is a different metro area because not enough people living in SF/OAK commute to SJ and vice versa.
Cincinnati and Dayton are separate metros, but have been inching closer for decades.

Inland Empire is it's own Metro Area.
Ontario is further from LA than Dallas & Ft Worth are (32 vs 36)
San Bernandino is further from LA than Dayton to Cincinnati (58 vs 66 miles)

Cincy and Dayton are moving closer because people are moving to the suburbs in between from both markets, but Inland Empire has been SEPARATING more and more from LA due to the traffic.

The population growth of Inland Empire is triple the population growth of Los Angeles. It's the fastest growing economy in California, the fastest growing metro area in California.

Basically, Austin and Inland Empire are the two "Major Pro Sports League Cities" without a Major Pro Sports League team left in the United States.

It's already the size of Boston, San Francisco/Oakland, Phoenix, Detroit.

It would be really smart for a sports league to go there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghetty Green

MMC

Global Moderator
May 11, 2014
47,809
38,368
Orange County, CA
Everyone is saying Inland Empire is "basically a suburb of Los Angeles, so it will never happen" but Inland Empire ISN'T a suburb of LA, because that's what the metro area statistics define: Where people live vs work. If a community's work/commute stats are high enough to a core municipality, they are included in the metro area.

So Dallas/Ft. Worth is one metro
San Francisco/Oakland is one metro.... but San Jose is a different metro area because not enough people living in SF/OAK commute to SJ and vice versa.
Cincinnati and Dayton are separate metros, but have been inching closer for decades.

Inland Empire is it's own Metro Area.
Ontario is further from LA than Dallas & Ft Worth are (32 vs 36)
San Bernandino is further from LA than Dayton to Cincinnati (58 vs 66 miles)

Cincy and Dayton are moving closer because people are moving to the suburbs in between from both markets, but Inland Empire has been SEPARATING more and more from LA due to the traffic.

The population growth of Inland Empire is triple the population growth of Los Angeles. It's the fastest growing economy in California, the fastest growing metro area in California.

Basically, Austin and Inland Empire are the two "Major Pro Sports League Cities" without a Major Pro Sports League team left in the United States.

It's already the size of Boston, San Francisco/Oakland, Phoenix, Detroit.

It would be really smart for a sports league to go there.
I agree, always been surprised there’s no IE sports team.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
I'd probably say Louisville (NBA, maybe MLB) or Albuquerque (any of NBA, MLB, or NFL).
Louisville, might NOT be

ownership is a major question (pandemic or not) history of that market is geared toward the major power 5 Cardinals; hockey has not succeeded either based off historical context or ownership (same for Lexington, which has UK as its goliath there) SJSE and USA Hockey tried that in 1996 and it surprised many that it survived until 2001.... with the AHL team they bought outright in 2001, 1st to Cleveland, then Worcester, and the last 7 years alongside the Sharks in San Jose as the Barracuda);

Louisville fanbase wants what Lexington has and it failed when Florida bails on a market due to inept ownership and/or breach of contract issues tells you all you need to know about Louisville.
 

HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
40,119
70,072
Charlotte
Louisville maybe, I wouldn't hold my breath but as I've said before I think they are the last "do-able" market in the States that currently doesn't have anything.

No way no how to Albuquerque. Not big enough and nowhere near enough wealth. Fix these two issues and maybe they have a shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CHRDANHUTCH

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Louisville maybe, I wouldn't hold my breath but as I've said before I think they are the last "do-able" market in the States that currently doesn't have anything.

No way no how to Albuquerque. Not big enough and nowhere near enough wealth. Fix these two issues and maybe they have a shot.
agree with you... but I think SJSE AND the Sharks already went down that road with the Barracuda, with an assist to USA Hockey... going up against the established powers in UK and Louisville, nevermind the arena dates.

Kentucky is basketball/thoroughbred horse racing centric, much like the perception that Toronto is hockey-centric in some circles of the NHL.
 

oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
470
329
Louisville, might NOT be

ownership is a major question (pandemic or not) history of that market is geared toward the major power 5 Cardinals; hockey has not succeeded either based off historical context or ownership (same for Lexington, which has UK as its goliath there) SJSE and USA Hockey tried that in 1996 and it surprised many that it survived until 2001.... with the AHL team they bought outright in 2001, 1st to Cleveland, then Worcester, and the last 7 years alongside the Sharks in San Jose as the Barracuda);

Louisville fanbase wants what Lexington has and it failed when Florida bails on a market due to inept ownership and/or breach of contract issues tells you all you need to know about Louisville.
This conversation is not just about hockey. It's about any major pro team.

And the success or lack thereof of a minor league hockey team has little bearing on the prospects of success as a major sports city. After all, Vegas has the Wranglers come and go, but no one would ever deny that the Knights are an unqualified success.
 

oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
470
329
Everyone is saying Inland Empire is "basically a suburb of Los Angeles, so it will never happen" but Inland Empire ISN'T a suburb of LA, because that's what the metro area statistics define: Where people live vs work. If a community's work/commute stats are high enough to a core municipality, they are included in the metro area.

So Dallas/Ft. Worth is one metro
San Francisco/Oakland is one metro.... but San Jose is a different metro area because not enough people living in SF/OAK commute to SJ and vice versa.
Cincinnati and Dayton are separate metros, but have been inching closer for decades.

Inland Empire is it's own Metro Area.
Ontario is further from LA than Dallas & Ft Worth are (32 vs 36)
San Bernandino is further from LA than Dayton to Cincinnati (58 vs 66 miles)

Cincy and Dayton are moving closer because people are moving to the suburbs in between from both markets, but Inland Empire has been SEPARATING more and more from LA due to the traffic.

The population growth of Inland Empire is triple the population growth of Los Angeles. It's the fastest growing economy in California, the fastest growing metro area in California.

Basically, Austin and Inland Empire are the two "Major Pro Sports League Cities" without a Major Pro Sports League team left in the United States.

It's already the size of Boston, San Francisco/Oakland, Phoenix, Detroit.

It would be really smart for a sports league to go there.
The problem with that analysis is that the IE is still considered part of the LA media market, not a separate one. That makes a huge difference in terms of team placement. More important than census bureau metro area definitions, which include some really questionable decisions (like including the Lehigh Valley as part of the broader NYC area, when it's quite separate in practice).

Also, for all the growth in Riverside and San Bernardino counties, the population is still very much concentrated in the western parts of the counties that are directly adjacent to LA and Orange counties.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
This conversation is not just about hockey. It's about any major pro team.

And the success or lack thereof of a minor league hockey team has little bearing on the prospects of success as a major sports city. After all, Vegas has the Wranglers come and go, but no one would ever deny that the Knights are an unqualified success.
FALSE:

Wonder why Louisville nor Lexington have anything other than the behemoths that are UK and U-Louisville...it's been done in pro hockey already, ok, the Sharks did that in conjunction with USA Hockey from 1996-2001, then the Gunds sold out shortly after the team left Lexington, which is why to this day the Sharks have owned and/or operated their franchise, no matter if it was Cleveland, Worcester, or San Jose.... the only reason they left Cleveland was the Cavaliers bought the arena (QL Fieldhouse)AND Decreed that they wanted their own tenant, which is the Cleveland Monsters.

Louisville, sadly, got caught in the ponzi scheme that the Afr family created that was why Port Huron, then Elmira, before Robbie Nichols resurrected that market with the Enforcers..... Florida bailed when their prospects weren't be paid, in the same ponzi-type promise that was how those three markets were run....

there simply is no capable arena to host a Louisville franchise, hockey or not, and then directly compete with those two power programs, then you might run the risk of a Kansas City, or a Lowell scenario, where there's a fanbase, but is it successful enough to support an established program and a pro team sharing the same arena....
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
But which league? Aside from MLS.

San Antonio is only 90 miles or so away so NBA is out. Both MLB and NFL, has Houston and Dallas teams which I think, will fight tooth and nails against.

Maybe NHL can go to Austin instead of Houston for second Texas team.
Doubtful,BK, that's like saying Bridgeport should be the Islanders new home instead of Belmont....
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
This post makes no sense.
JUST as much as Austin getting an NHL Franchise.... when the Stars themselves, BK, would pitch a fit, if using your previous post as a prime example, Arlington would pitch a fit if another league entered Texas Rangers territory, never mind Globe Life Field, because it's a Dallas based franchise, just as the Texas Stars are considered part of Dallas's territory, yes, there's an SSE franchise in Austin as well....

it's why Chuck Watson didn't majority own the Aeros even though his piece of that franchise decreed he got to name them the Aeros, but it was Minnesota who owned and operated them under a sidelease with Les Alexander in Houston, the same role you see Fertitta now has that control and when Alexander ended that contract with the Aeros, that's why pro hockey primarily has been roadblocked, not just other leagues from entering Houston, if the sole option is the Toyota Center, it's also why Fertitta hasn't pursued a franchise, even if one were available..

that's why Houston has gone nowhere professionally outside of the Astros, Dash, Rockets, even the MLS Dynamo .

SSE was that until first dropping the Silver Stars to Mandalay Bay, then the Rampage to Black Knight Sports aka Vegas outside of San Antonio FC, THE Austin Spurs and the SA Spurs, and the AT & T Center.
 

BKIslandersFan

F*** off
Sep 29, 2017
11,447
5,062
Brooklyn
JUST as much as Austin getting an NHL Franchise.... when the Stars themselves, rom entering Houston, if the sole option is the Toyota Center, it's also why Fertitta hasn't pursued a franchise, even if one were available..
I don't think Stars will object to 2nd NHL team in Texas. Gives them a nice rival to sell tickets for. Texas is big enough for both. I do not believe Cowboys objected when NFL gave Houston another team.

But they will object t third.
 

oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
470
329
FALSE:

Wonder why Louisville nor Lexington have anything other than the behemoths that are UK and U-Louisville...it's been done in pro hockey already, ok, the Sharks did that in conjunction with USA Hockey from 1996-2001, then the Gunds sold out shortly after the team left Lexington, which is why to this day the Sharks have owned and/or operated their franchise, no matter if it was Cleveland, Worcester, or San Jose.... the only reason they left Cleveland was the Cavaliers bought the arena (QL Fieldhouse)AND Decreed that they wanted their own tenant, which is the Cleveland Monsters.

Louisville, sadly, got caught in the ponzi scheme that the Afr family created that was why Port Huron, then Elmira, before Robbie Nichols resurrected that market with the Enforcers..... Florida bailed when their prospects weren't be paid, in the same ponzi-type promise that was how those three markets were run....

there simply is no capable arena to host a Louisville franchise, hockey or not, and then directly compete with those two power programs, then you might run the risk of a Kansas City, or a Lowell scenario, where there's a fanbase, but is it successful enough to support an established program and a pro team sharing the same arena....

What part of my previous post is false? That this thread is not just about hockey teams, but any major pro sport? If you think that I recommend you go back and read the OP again. It says any major league, not just hockey. That's the point I was making. You're hung up on hockey when that is not the topic. You're not participating in the actual discussion.

As for your analysis of Louisville, I don't disagree that the market is one of those where the college teams take up the entire market and don't leave much of any room for pro sports, either major or minor. That said, the Louisville Bats do pretty darn well as a AAA team, usually averaging over 6,500 per game every year. But any NHL team would need a different arena, as the KFC Center is a Barclays-type basketball arena, with off-center ice. But considering the conversation is not only about hockey, that doesn't necessarily matter. If the NBA went there there'd be a perfect setup already.

Plus, I think you put too much stock in a previous minor league team's issues as a permanent indictment of the market. Just as you seem to think that the presence of a minor league team means that the market is unavailable to a major league team in that same sport, or that the minor league club's major league affiliate somehow owns that market. Neither are true, yet you keep repeating that despite the fact you've been told numerous times
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
What part of my previous post is false? That this thread is not just about hockey teams, but any major pro sport? If you think that I recommend you go back and read the OP again. It says any major league, not just hockey. That's the point I was making. You're hung up on hockey when that is not the topic. You're not participating in the actual discussion.

As for your analysis of Louisville, I don't disagree that the market is one of those where the college teams take up the entire market and don't leave much of any room for pro sports, either major or minor. That said, the Louisville Bats do pretty darn well as a AAA team, usually averaging over 6,500 per game every year. But any NHL team would need a different arena, as the KFC Center is a Barclays-type basketball arena, with off-center ice. But considering the conversation is not only about hockey, that doesn't necessarily matter. If the NBA went there there'd be a perfect setup already.

Plus, I think you put too much stock in a previous minor league team's issues as a permanent indictment of the market. Just as you seem to think that the presence of a minor league team means that the market is unavailable to a major league team in that same sport, or that the minor league club's major league affiliate somehow owns that market. Neither are true, yet you keep repeating that despite the fact you've been told numerous times
it is a permanent indictment, ok....how many leagues, professionally, are even wanting to entertain competing in a market dominated by a power 5 conference..... don't get me wrong, it was a challenge then to get either UK or Louisville to co-exist, and then for SVSE (SJSE) to successfully compete against the established and then the inherit rivalry between the 2 markets an hour apart.... put it this way, when you have that as a genesis base argument, it's set to failure.... why would pro sports leagues consider a Michigan and/or a Michigan State type of rivalry when one already exists.... in other words, alumni are either UK or Louisville in Kentucky, WITH a minor to the other colleges and universities in that commonwealth, or in a state like Michigan, where predominately it's a Wolverine or a Spartan, that's the balance of where I'm basing the experience off of that which either exists, perception or not...

in essence, those deals are short term, not long term, and rarely, based off experience, are successful...

it's almost like 2 leagues competing in the same sport, in the same city at the same time... Cincinnati fans can tell you how that ultimately worked between the Ducks and Cyclones....it almost burned Cincinnati into a market where no league would've considered them had the Cyclones not had the wherewithal to remain committed to Cincinnati despite that incursion.

Cincinnati's that way, too between U-Cincinnati and XAVIER co existing for the same fanbase.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->