Next BIG Thing??

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Form and Substance

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Vanman said:
Im not too sure what the shaking of the head is about, BUT a poor mans Forsberg can be a great player. Forsberg is the BEST all round player in the NHL today, and I do not think Crosby will ever be without a doubt the Best all round player in the NHL. Therefore my comparison.

I think the hype machine on Crosby has been a little greased up too much. Can you tell me one part of Crosbys game that has the next one written all over it? Size like Lemieux- NO, skillset like Jagr- NO, and if you say vision like Gretzky, well thats just absurd. I think everyone should take a step back and realize, this kid will be good, BUT records wont be broken in his case. NOT NHL records anywayz.

Size like Lemieux? No, but Lemieux was never a physical player in the first place, he used his size to protect the puck.

Skillset like Jagr? No, Crosby's superior in that respect.

Vision like Gretzky? Maybe not, but who honestly does?
 

nomorekids

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Leachmeister2000 said:
Size like Lemieux? No, but Lemieux was never a physical player in the first place, he used his size to protect the puck.

Skillset like Jagr? No, Crosby's superior in that respect.

Vision like Gretzky? Maybe not, but who honestly does?


If you're saying that Crosby has a higher skillset than Jagr...one of the most highly skilled players OF ALL TIME...then you need to rest the pipe, my friend. Crosby's impressive, but Jagr was almost supernatural.
 

leafaholix*

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Crosby is no poor man's Forsberg.

He has the skills to be as good as Forsberg... not a lesser version.
 

em1ss

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Leachmeister2000 said:
Size like Lemieux? No, but Lemieux was never a physical player in the first place, he used his size to protect the puck.
Mario was fairly physical when he first came into the league. He moved away from that as his body was being beaten up even without him initiating contact. He still can put a hard hit on someone if they fire him up enough. Given his skills, injuries and age would you be banging every night? Not his role. He uses his size to keep possession, steal passes and keep guys off him. As he should.
 

THE NEXT ONE #87

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nomorekids said:
If you're saying that Crosby has a higher skillset than Jagr...one of the most highly skilled players OF ALL TIME...then you need to rest the pipe, my friend. Crosby's impressive, but Jagr was almost supernatural.

Norh American players may never have the skillset of a jagr. european players are better individuals.
 

TeamPlayer

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Carl O'Steen said:
Crosby is no poor man's Forsberg.

He has the skills to be as good as Forsberg... not a lesser version.

You are talking about the best player in the WORLD! Crosby by no stretch of the imagination even came close to being the best player in the tournament. All of Crosbys goals were tap ins, not one was initiated and ended with Crosby. Yes mind you it takes a special player to visualize and get to the right place on the ice to score the goals in which Crosby did, but please simmer down the expectations a bit, he is not the second coming of Christ.

Crosby will be a GOOD player, BUT the BEST - I have my doubts! SERIOUS DOUBTS!
 

THE NEXT ONE #87

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Vanman said:
You are talking about the best player in the WORLD! Crosby by no stretch of the imagination even came close to being the best player in the tournament. All of Crosbys goals were tap ins, not one was initiated and ended with Crosby. Yes mind you it takes a special player to visualize and get to the right place on the ice to score the goals in which Crosby did, but please simmer down the expectations a bit, he is not the second coming of Christ.

Crosby will be a GOOD player, BUT the BEST - I have my doubts! SERIOUS DOUBTS!

Forsberg is currently the most well-rounded player in the world but the best?? If u would have watched a recent game from jagr... u would know he is not the best. Jagr plays this season just unreal.

Jaromir Jagr is ripping it up this season, tallying 19 points (10-9) in 14 games with Omsk Avangard after putting up 28 points (11-17) in 17 games with Kladno in the Czech league.

That record in the defensive minded rsl. he is the only one with more than a point per game. Kovalchuk or Lecavalier or or or aren´t near...
 

TeamPlayer

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Leachmeister2000 said:
Size like Lemieux? No, but Lemieux was never a physical player in the first place, he used his size to protect the puck.

Skillset like Jagr? No, Crosby's superior in that respect.

Vision like Gretzky? Maybe not, but who honestly does?

I find MAJOR FLAWS in this statement. Lemieux although one of the most skilled players ever to play the game, was a physical player in the first place, If you go back to his first years in the league he would take the body and drop the gloves whenever need be. As the years went on, obviously the Penguins urged him to concentrate on what he did best which was put points on the board and they had other employees to take care of the dirty work.

SKILLSET SUPERIOR to JAGR????? WOW, I think maybe you should sit down and watch a few tapes of Jagr at his best and do the comparisons. NO WAY

Vision Like GRETZKY - AGREED Gretzky had almost supernatural vision, Crosby and no other player compares, although I would make an arguement for Lemieux but now is not the time nor the place.
 

David

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Vanman said:
I find MAJOR FLAWS in this statement. Lemieux although one of the most skilled players ever to play the game, was a physical player in the first place, If you go back to his first years in the league he would take the body and drop the gloves whenever need be. .

Actually, I find MAJOR FLAWS in your statement...unless you're talking about Claude...or maybe even Jocelyn...but Mario has NEVER, EVER been accused of being a physical player in his life! The few times that he dropped his gloves were to retaliate out of frustration and he got it handed it to him pretty good on a few occasions...although to be fair, he sort of b!tch slapped a few others too. But at least, he goes after people who get under his skin instead of walking out on his team mates like some Russian STAR that we know!

I too think that Kovalchuk will have a better career than Ovechken and I wouldn't be surprised if Malkin does too. Malkin, by the way, reminds me of Ronnie Francisis type IMHO.

As for Sidney Crosby, I've always said that his style of play is very similar to Pat Lafontaine....and we're once again reminded how very fortunate we were to see Wayne and Mario play in one life time.

Oh, and by the way, we have to remember that Sidney Crosby is still one or two years younger than most of the kids that played at WJC when comparing him to others including Ovechkin. Let's see how he does at the next Juniors if he goes there.
 

CJHF13

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David said:
Oh, and by the way, we have to remember that Sidney Crosby is still one or two years younger than most of the kids that played at WJC when comparing him to others including Ovechkin. Let's see how he does at the next Juniors if he goes there.


When these players are 36 or 37, are you still going to be using the age argument?

They don't give players points for being younger. Ovechkin is superior to Crosby and, I think that Malkin is also. Crosby played on a superior team thus, he won. Point blank, no one cares who is older and who is younger, it's about what they can do. In this tournament, Ovechkin and Malkin > Crosby. Next year, Crosby will probably > the rest of the players. That's how it goes.
 

TeamPlayer

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CJHF13 said:
When these players are 36 or 37, are you still going to be using the age argument?

They don't give players points for being younger. Ovechkin is superior to Crosby and, I think that Malkin is also. Crosby played on a superior team thus, he won. Point blank, no one cares who is older and who is younger, it's about what they can do. In this tournament, Ovechkin and Malkin > Crosby. Next year, Crosby will probably > the rest of the players. That's how it goes.

Right on the money.
 

TeamPlayer

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David said:
Actually, I find MAJOR FLAWS in your statement...unless you're talking about Claude...or maybe even Jocelyn...but Mario has NEVER, EVER been accused of being a physical player in his life! The few times that he dropped his gloves were to retaliate out of frustration and he got it handed it to him pretty good on a few occasions...although to be fair, he sort of b!tch slapped a few others too. But at least, he goes after people who get under his skin instead of walking out on his team mates like some Russian STAR that we know!





Im not going to argue with you BUT take it from me, a person who grew up watching M. Lemieux including live in the memorial Cup for LAVAL, Mario Lemieux COULD FIGHT but fortunately for him, He also had unearthly hockey talent and decided to be a goalscorer instead of a GOON. I think he made the right decision as I dont think he would have lasted long enough in the NHL if he concentrated on fighting.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Vanman said:
Vision Like GRETZKY - AGREED Gretzky had almost supernatural vision, Crosby and no other player compares, although I would make an arguement for Lemieux but now is not the time nor the place.

Mario did not take a backseat to Gretzky in his ability to 'see' the ice and just know where everyone not only was . . . but where they were going to be . . . and that is no knock at all on Gretzky, who had the same 'vision' thing as Mario. The game just seemed to slow down for them and them alone. Crosby will be something if he has anything close to what those two had, and no one, and I mean no one, can seriously claim that he will be in that kind of class until he goes out and shows it in the NHL.
 

CJHF13

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Jaded-Fan said:
Mario did not take a backseat to Gretzky in his ability to 'see' the ice and just know where everyone not only was . . . but where they were going to be . . . and that is no knock at all on Gretzky, who had the same 'vision' thing as Mario. The game just seemed to slow down for them and them alone. Crosby will be something if he has anything close to what those two had, and no one, and I mean no one, can seriously claim that he will be in that kind of class until he goes out and shows it in the NHL.


Lemieux MADE the games be played at the pace that he wanted them to be played(while he was on the ice). I don't know if I've ever seen this out of any other player...
 

Luigi Lemieux

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I've never seen Crosby play, but I've heard so many times that he has Gretzky like vision and skill set, and this and that. If he's not at least as good as Mario Lemieux when he comes into the NHL i'll be disappointed. The hype is just ridiculous.
 

CJHF13

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When he scores in his first game on his first shift on his first shot on a semi-breakaway, then I'll say the kid is "amazing". Until then, he'll have to prove it to me over about a year or so in the NHL.

As of now, I'm giving the advantage to Ovechkin and Malkin. I've seen them all three play in the WJC and, I was more impressed with the Russian duo even with them being surrounded by a vastly inferior team.

Those two got the Silver for the Russians.
 

Meat Wave

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He is everything you have heard and read. Just give him time... he turned 17 four months ago and was already a force at the WJC. Still very impressive when you think about it.
 

ktownhockey

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CJHF13 said:
When these players are 36 or 37, are you still going to be using the age argument?

They don't give players points for being younger. Ovechkin is superior to Crosby and, I think that Malkin is also. Crosby played on a superior team thus, he won. Point blank, no one cares who is older and who is younger, it's about what they can do. In this tournament, Ovechkin and Malkin > Crosby. Next year, Crosby will probably > the rest of the players. That's how it goes.


This site is stupid now... Its basically if your from outside Canada you don't think Crosbys good and if your from Canada you do... (for the most part)

Ovechkin is good... Crosby is good.. Malkin is pretty good... Dustin Rose is better..
lets just leave it at that
 

CJHF13

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ktownhockey said:
This site is stupid now... Its basically if your from outside Canada you don't think Crosbys good and if your from Canada you do... (for the most part)

Ovechkin is good... Crosby is good.. Malkin is pretty good... Dustin Rose is better..
lets just leave it at that

WRONG!

This site is stupid now because if you have an opinion(read: your own) or aren't completely brainwashed from 5 years of the Canadian media telling you that "Crosby is the next great one" then, you get slammed.

Point blank, no one knows, this is all speculation. But, I can sure as hell tell that Ovechkin and Malkin were better than Crosby in the WJC's this year. If you do know how these kids are going to turn out, let me barrow your crystal ball, the "Powerball" here is at like 50 million, I want some cash.

I actually pitty some of you Canadians(not all). Many of you have the Crosby blinds closed so tight, you can't see out of the window.
 

Form and Substance

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CJHF13 said:
WRONG!

This site is stupid now because if you have an opinion(read: your own) or aren't completely brainwashed from 5 years of the Canadian media telling you that "Crosby is the next great one" then, you get slammed.

Point blank, no one knows, this is all speculation. But, I can sure as hell tell that Ovechkin and Malkin were better than Crosby in the WJC's this year. If you do know how these kids are going to turn out, let me barrow your crystal ball, the "Powerball" here is at like 50 million, I want some cash.

I actually pitty some of you Canadians(not all). Many of you have the Crosby blinds closed so tight, you can't see out of the window.

Some americans have the Kessel blinds closed tight too you know...
 

CJHF13

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When did I mention Kessel?

And yes, I absolutly agree.

Kessel was called by the ESPN announcers, "America's Answer to Crosby"...I don't know...America was a not NEARLY the team Canada was but, he still put up solid stats(I'm not even sure what they were exactly...) so I have to agree that they are about equal.

That still doesn't change the fact that Ovechkin and Malkin both outperformed *them*.
 

AgentNaslund*

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Kessel is like Ilya Kovalchuk, minus the monster size...... Kovalchuk is 6'2 235 and is pounds and growing. I dont think Kessel will grow that big and strong, but be that type of player, but just a little smaller.

Smaller version of Kovalchuk, minus, the cockiness, minues the toughness, no knock on that, minus the monster strenght.

I take him over Ovechkin or Malkin.
 

Form and Substance

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CJHF13 said:
When did I mention Kessel?

And yes, I absolutly agree.

Kessel was called by the ESPN announcers, "America's Answer to Crosby"...I don't know...America was a not NEARLY the team Canada was but, he still put up solid stats(I'm not even sure what they were exactly...) so I have to agree that they are about equal.

That still doesn't change the fact that Ovechkin and Malkin both outperformed *them*.

We're talking one tourny here! Crosby was in a team loaded with potential future superstars, Russia counted on Malkin and Ovechkin to carry the team, so it's not like Crosby was under a gun here to perform, he did what he had to do and guess what! he frickin' had 5 ppg goals in the tournament as a 17 year old! I'm not one of those Crosby worshippers either, but if there's one player destined for greatness, it'll be Crosby or Ovy, saying who's better at this point is stupid.
 

CJHF13

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it'll be Crosby or Ovy, saying who's better at this point is stupid.

Reaaaaally? So all of those scouts saying that Malkin is neck and neck are lieing?

Actually, I might perfer Malkin personally over Ovechkin at this point...Ovechkin is shoot shoot shoot pass...Malkin looks for the right play then, whatever is open, he does...

it's not like Crosby was under a gun here to perform

So then he's a slacker? Heh...Just kidding. I never said that Crosby isn't good or wouldn't become a good or even a great player, I simply said that Ovechkin AND Malkin outperformed him in this tournament which, you obviously agree to with these comments:

Crosby was in a team loaded with potential future superstars

so it's not like Crosby was under a gun here to perform

Russia counted on Malkin and Ovechkin to carry the team

Those three quotes combined with the obvious information that both teams ended up in the Gold medal game prove that the Russian duo outperformed Crosby...Am I lieing? Don't use any excuses, don't sugarcoat it with "He's 17!!!!"...Tell me straight:

Did Ovechkin outperform Crosby? Did Malkin outperform Crosby? Or, do you really think that it was the other way around?
 
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