News from Around the AHL/NHL/KHL 2019-20 Pt. IV

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thegoldenyear

RIP Mike Bossy
May 13, 2013
2,360
1,354
Toronto
We're playing like ass right now so many here have decided that to make themselves feel better they'll get back to ripping JT two years after the fact when the truth is most of those now doing so were crying in their soup the day he left. And for the record, if it wasn't John Tavares but some guy named Joe Smith and he had the skillset that JT has right now, you'd all cream in your soup if we could get him (though not for $11M).

Part of it is we know HFLeafs comes here for a quick wallow. It’s all part of the dance.
 

YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
Feb 7, 2013
11,361
7,615
South Carolina
We're playing like ass right now so many here have decided that to make themselves feel better they'll get back to ripping JT two years after the fact when the truth is most of those now doing so were crying in their soup the day he left. And for the record, if it wasn't John Tavares but some guy named Joe Smith and he had the skillset that JT has right now, you'd all cream in your soup if we could get him (though not for $11M).

So if the Islanders resigned John Tavares we never would have hated him? Wow... This is a revolutionary thought process!
 

xECK29x

Moderator
Sponsor
Jul 19, 2006
17,971
11,422
Deer Park, NY
So if the Islanders resigned John Tavares we never would have hated him? Wow... This is a revolutionary thought process!

tumblr_inline_p1brmcd9Dk1rr08jv_500.jpg
 

Uncle Duke

Heads up, fellas!
May 14, 2018
4,488
2,766
Sarasota, FL
So if the Islanders resigned John Tavares we never would have hated him? Wow... This is a revolutionary thought process!
You missed the point completely. Much of the conversation has turned not to his betrayal but to saying in essence that he's not a very good hockey player and my point was that that kind of thinking is idiotic we would kill for a player with JTs exact skillset right about now. Again, not for JT, but for player who can do exactly what JT does.
 

Big L

Grandpa’s Cough Medicine is 180 Proof
Feb 7, 2013
11,688
6,234
CT
Ironically (maybe not the right word here), JT signing with the leafs screwed both the Isles and the leafs. Isles lost capital and leafs acquired a player they didn’t need.
 
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YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
Feb 7, 2013
11,361
7,615
South Carolina
You missed the point completely. Much of the conversation has turned not to his betrayal but to saying in essence that he's not a very good hockey player and my point was that that kind of thinking is idiotic we would kill for a player with JTs exact skillset right about now. Again, not for JT, but for player who can do exactly what JT does.

Yeah obviously he is a good hockey player, I think everyone knows that. People are just rooting for the destruction of his career.
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,437
14,719
You missed the point completely. Much of the conversation has turned not to his betrayal but to saying in essence that he's not a very good hockey player and my point was that that kind of thinking is idiotic we would kill for a player with JTs exact skillset right about now. Again, not for JT, but for player who can do exactly what JT does.
It's more about the fact that we loved him for what he was with us and didn't rip him, but for TML fans he's apparently not good enough. They're the ones ripping their own guy - we never did that.

I can't speak for others, but I would never say he's not a very good hockey player. However, when he signed there the TML fans/media narrative was that The Great Tavares was being rescued from misery on LI and he would make the Leafs this unstoppable force with his greatness combined with Matthews, Marner, etc.. I (and others) pointed out at the time that Tavares is great in some areas (elite hands and amazing down low, along the walls and in the slot area) and merely average in others (the rest of the ice, zone entries, skating, defense, etc.). It was less a dig and more responding to unrealistic expectations in TOR (along with their obnoxious premature victory dances and potshots at the Isles).

So he chose his hometown and the supposed center of the hockey universe over LI, and now his game is getting picked apart by the people who had unrealistic expectations from the start. The fact is, when he was here he was loved for what he was, and now he's getting ripped for being that same player and not the guy Leafs fans imagined he was on 7/1/18. Yeah, sorry, but I think we're entitled to an "I told you so" now and then.
 

Uncle Duke

Heads up, fellas!
May 14, 2018
4,488
2,766
Sarasota, FL
Yeah obviously he is a good hockey player, I think everyone knows that. People are just rooting for the destruction of his career.
Read through the thread and you'll find that there are a lot of people to whom it is clearly not obvious. Though more likely it's willful blindness. Hate on him all you want, hell, I've hated the Leafs my whole life and more so now because he's there, but when people deny his ability, the same ones who wept when he left, it's moronic.
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,437
14,719
Of all the things that Leaf fans are suddenly being critical of Tavares for, I'm baffled why his skating is the one they're only just now catching on to. Even at his absolute peak, his skating was no better than about average.

Did they think they were getting a McDavid/MacKinnon/Barzal level skater and suddenly he just lost his wheels within the past 12 months?
Correct. This is the kind of thing I was getting at in my post above. I don't think Isles fans are saying Tavares isn't a great player, they're just enjoying the fact that he's not what Leafs fans imagined he was.
 
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Tres Peleches

Johnny Turncoat
Jul 13, 2011
8,164
6,509
Read through the thread and you'll find that there are a lot of people to whom it is clearly not obvious. Though more likely it's willful blindness. Hate on him all you want, hell, I've hated the Leafs my whole life and more so now because he's there, but when people deny his ability, the same ones who wept when he left, it's moronic.
The difference is people did criticize him for things like backchecking when he was here, that wasn’t new. The difference is he no longer has the shield of being the golden child here, so rather than criticism being mitigated, it’s magnified 10 fold because he’s a jackass. He’s a good hockey player, no doubt, but I hate him as a hockey player because of what he did
 
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crasherino

Registered User
May 9, 2013
7,333
2,824
The difference is people did criticize him for things like backchecking when he was here, that wasn’t new. The difference is he no longer has the shield of being the golden child here, so rather than criticism being mitigated, it’s magnified 10 fold because he’s a jackass. He’s a good hockey player, no doubt, but I hate him as a hockey player because of what he did
He's a bit of an outlier when it comes to superstars/elite players as his skills aren't necessarily elite - at least not across the board. His hockey sense and intangibles are some of the things that propelled him to stardom as a youth and with the Islanders but that was largely on account of him being the big swinging dick in the room. In some sense with the leafs, its a diminishing returns type situation. With the amount of skill around him, they don't really have as much a need for what Tavares brings as opposed to a relatively undermanned Islander squad over the years he was here. And his relative shortcomings are more magnified with the talent around him. He's still a very good player and will get his goals, but they don't necessarily need what he brings - at least, not at an $11m cap hit.

It was somewhat telling to me that when he went over to the leafs, he requested to play in front of the net on the PP as opposed to the half boards - his former home. He's got elite hands so he no doubt will get his share of goals there but its not necessarily maximizing a player's skill set in front of the net.
 

Poulin 0n My St1ck

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
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Of all the things that Leaf fans are suddenly being critical of Tavares for, I'm baffled why his skating is the one they're only just now catching on to. Even at his absolute peak, his skating was no better than about average.

Did they think they were getting a McDavid/MacKinnon/Barzal level skater and suddenly he just lost his wheels within the past 12 months?

Exactly, and the difference from about 2011-2015 was his foot speed remained the same, but he was strong on the puck and his puck possession game was better. Despite averaging over a PPG in his last season with the Islanders, it seemed like he had gotten progressively sloppier with the puck and turned it over a lot (I make this statement based on the age-old eye test and without looking at advanced metrics).

Can't say I've watched him much in TO, but it's certainly amusing that TML fans are dogging him for his skating since he looks like Ryan Smyth compared to their young talent.
 
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