News and Notes XXII: Now With More Finnish!

[Wolfpuck]

Sure. Feel happy for the longtime ex who looks smoking hot with her new dude on Facebook while you're eating hot pockets and sorting through ugly 60 year olds on tinder.

Admit it. Maybe we ****ed up not even trying to resign Eric.

Especially after being the one to initiate the breakup because you thought she had gotten a little too chunky.

 

[MinJaBen]

Sure. Feel happy for the longtime ex who looks smoking hot with her new dude on Facebook while you're eating hot pockets and sorting through ugly 60 year olds on tinder.

Admit it. Maybe we ****ed up not even trying to resign Eric.

Swipe right, Ron! Swipe. Right!

 

[tarheelhockey]

Especially after being the one to initiate the breakup because you thought she had gotten a little too chunky.

Eric was at the point of starfishing and thinking about something he saw at Sephora until... his shift was over. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out and you move on.

If it’s true that the Canes organization was the source of his apathy, then you can bet your ass we’d have a different Eric right now than the one the Wild have.

 

[GoldiFox]

Eric made $3.5 million for the same reason the Free Market prices every player. He was expected to chip in ~35 points ($1 million per 10 points). I’m sure the Wild were as surprised as anyone else that Eric decided he wanted to try at hockey again.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

What amuses and amazes me is the unwillingness of some to even realistically entertain the possibility that we might have made a mistake.

Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, and impossible to say -- but that goes both ways. And it's pretty tough to imagine that, if we have that Eric Staal, we're not in a playoff spot right now.

 

[cptjeff]

What amuses and amazes me is the unwillingness of some to even realistically entertain the possibility that we might have made a mistake.

Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, and impossible to say -- but that goes both ways. And it's pretty tough to imagine that, if we have that Eric Staal, we're not in a playoff spot right now.

See, it's not that we haven't heard your arguments. We've entertained the thought. We just think, based on a number of different parts of evidence, that your argument is wrong.

 

[GoldiFox]

What amuses and amazes me is the unwillingness of some to even realistically entertain the possibility that we might have made a mistake.

Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, and impossible to say -- but that goes both ways. And it's pretty tough to imagine that, if we have that Eric Staal, we're not in a playoff spot right now.

A 30 year old 65+ point #1C was signed to a 3 year x $3.5 million per contract. Every GM in the league outside of Fletcher made a mistake. The same offseason Ladd, Lucic, Eriksson, Backes, and Okposo all got $6-7 million on 5+ year contracts.

 

[Stickpucker]

I'm gonna go out and say it....Kirk Muller was just as good of a coach as Peters. Muller even made Petedawg look good and was able to eek 2-1 out wins just as well as Peters could with Cam Ward.

Maurice and Laviolette were multiple tiers above those 2.

 

[geehaad]

disagree

 

[AD Skinner]

I agree with hank that with Eric Staal this team probably sits in a playoff spot today, but I think getting an extra 30-40 points from any forward would have done that. I don't think that Staal would be the Staal he is in Minnesota though because he wouldn't have the chip on his shoulder. I don't think the mistake was moving on, the mistake was not making any effort to replace him

 

[MinJaBen]

I think Eric would have had better years here, too. As good as he's having in Minnesota? Probably not, but better than he had his last year here. And I think Jordan would have been better as well.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Eric made $3.5 million for the same reason the Free Market prices every player. He was expected to chip in ~35 points ($1 million per 10 points). I’m sure the Wild were as surprised as anyone else that Eric decided he wanted to try at hockey again.

This is the essence of the entire Eric Staal situation. Eric Staal decided to try at hockey again *because* he ended up in Minnesota. If he would have come back to Carolina, he would not have decided to try at hockey again. We never had the option of getting the Eric Staal that Minnesota got. Our option was the Eric Staal we had previously. There was *no chance* that Eric Staal was going to score at a point per game rate, if he returned to the depressing wasteland that is the Carolina Hurricanes.

So you have to ask yourself *why* Eric Staal of the Wild decided to try at hockey again, while Eric Staal of the Hurricanes didn't.

To answer that, I look to current Hurricanes players like Jeff Skinner, Justin Faulk and Victor Rask who have also decided not to try at hockey anymore. Meanwhile, very few Wild players are not trying at hockey this season. IMO, there's a *huge* culture issue here in Carolina and Eric Staal is just one of the victims. You can say that he should have tried to be part of the solution, to which I'd say, I think he did -- for as long as he could. But once guys like Brindy and Wesley retired and the wave of complacency overwhelmed him, there was nothing he could do.

On top of that, now there's a GM who can't be bothered to do *anything* to improve the club, even marginally, including making a waiver claim. If that doesn't show that not trying will be tolerated here, I don't know what does.

 

[CandyCanes]

Sure. Feel happy for the longtime ex who looks smoking hot with her new dude on Facebook while you're eating hot pockets and sorting through ugly 60 year olds on tinder.

Admit it. Maybe we ****ed up not even trying to resign Eric.

Thank you.

I said it when he signed for that low $3.5 mill per year deal, I was shocked at how cheap he was. I was guessing $6 mill the whole time for him even with his struggles. I don't care what you all say, but even low end 40 pt Eric Staal is worth it at $3.5 million a season... You all want to chalk it up as a "we needed to move on from Eric", but you all are the same ones saying we need a 1C, and he's currently one. You all are also calling for Derek Ryan's head, well there'd be no room for him if Eric was here. I absolutely think RF made the right move selling him at the deadline, but think he made a huge mistake not taking the opportunity to bring him back during free agency at the cost of $3.5mill (If that opportunity was actually there)

Additional add: But if Eric signed at like $6mill, then this is a totally different convo, I would of been completely with RF passing on him. But again even 40 pt Eric Staal is well worth $3.5 mill for 3 years to me.

 

[Canes]

I really doubt Eric didn't have better offers than what he got from Minnesota. Obviously it's impossible to prove, but I think he went there because it's not a huge market with tons of pressure, it's actually the closest NHL team to Thunder Bay, and it was pretty much a perfect fit hockey wise (team needed a top 6 center and they are competing for the playoffs regularly). He made plenty of money here too, so he could afford to take a little less for a great fit.

 

[The Stranger]

Sure. Feel happy for the longtime ex who looks smoking hot with her new dude on Facebook while you're eating hot pockets and sorting through ugly 60 year olds on tinder.

Admit it. Maybe we ****ed up not even trying to resign Eric.

#this_is_us

 

[cptjeff]

To answer that, I look to current Hurricanes players like Jeff Skinner, Justin Faulk and Victor Rask who have also decided not to try at hockey anymore. Meanwhile, very few Wild players are not trying at hockey this season. IMO, there's a *huge* culture issue here in Carolina and Eric Staal is just one of the victims. You can say that he should have tried to be part of the solution, to which I'd say, I think he did -- for as long as he could. But once guys like Brindy and Wesley retired and the wave of complacency overwhelmed him, there was nothing he could do.

On top of that, now there's a GM who can't be bothered to do *anything* to improve the club, even marginally, including making a waiver claim. If that doesn't show that not trying will be tolerated here, I don't know what does.

Remember when Skinner first came into the league? He hated to lose. Absolutely hated it. You'd see it in his face after every game. He fought on the ice. Irresponsibly and immaturely at some points, but as he got older, in smart ways. He fought for the puck and led the NHL in turnovers, because he wanted to win, and became a pretty effective defensive player as a result. He had a drive on nights when no one else did.

We saw that Skinner as recently as down the stretch last season. But we finally broke him. This organization broke his spirit. Changing an organizational culture that forces the players who actually care to swim upstream until they finally break requires commitment from the top of the organization. Francis flat out isn't committed. Neither is Peters. Being useless on the ice doesn't bring consequences. Losing doesn't bring consequences. When you try, it's rare that the rest of the team rallies behind you. From top to bottom in this organization, trying isn't rewarded. So why f***ing try?

 

[HisIceness]

I can't exactly pinpoint the exact date, but I remember around this time 5 years ago this team in the lockout season was leading the SE Division by a somewhat significant margin. Then they played Washington at home, and in classic Canes fashion over the last 10 years playing against the Caps, allowed a late regulation goal that cost them a point. They then went into a free fall and never got close to a playoff spot after that.

Then 4 years ago, same thing. Held a lead against a lousy team (Winnipeg?) with a chance to grab the 3 spot in the Metro, and proceeded to blow the lead in the last minute while outplaying the opposition. Lost in regulation.

3 years ago sucked from the get-go.

2 years ago I don't think they ever got close to a playoff spot.

Then last year again, a chance to grab a WC spot but lost to bad teams like Colorado (For gods sake 4 of their 48 points came from this damn team) in regulation. A crazy late season push wasn't enough.

And here we are, 2 weeks after holding down the last WC spot now sitting 5 points out of it.

I don't know what it is. You'd think after years of this nonsense they would have broken the mold but then again, it's not like they are used to being in a playoff spot to begin with. This actually goes back to the 07/08 season but I don't remember those games very well anymore. So 2 GM's, 4 coaches, now 2 majority owners.

Maybe it's time to delete franchise and start over. I mean look at how Vegas is doing in year 1.

 

[AD Skinner]

I'm sure it would never come out to the press but I think the co captain thing really soured Skinner on the whole staff. He's the longest tenured hurricane besides Ward, leading scorer for years, and showed with his play last season (at least from where I sit) that he wanted and relished that leadership role wearing the A. It'd be one thing to choose someone else to wear C but to have this ridiculous "nobody really gets it" with two players who didn't seem to really want it left a bad taste in my mouth as an observer, I can't imagine what the people actually involved must have thought. I'm not in the locker room or at practice or on the bench obviously I don't know how any of those guys REALLY are in terms of leadership. But it definitely seems like Faulks game took a nosedive and skinner has been pretty much MIA since that decision got made.

 

[NotOpie]

Changing an organizational culture that forces the players who actually care to swim upstream until they finally break requires commitment from the top of the organization. Francis flat out isn't committed. Neither is Peters. Being useless on the ice doesn't bring consequences.

For whatever reason, we can blame it on Francis or we can probably more accurately blame it on Peters. The team isn't performing up to its capabilities. I'm not one to feel this team is untalented. It isn't. There is plenty of skill. We have fast players. We even have a few strong players (although if I were to point to a deficit, that would be my hill to die on). For all the "Peters is getting the most he can out of these players" crowd, what then is exactly the coaches job? They have one and only one job description....you're in charge of making sure your players win games.

If Ron really wanted to, he could send Ryan, Stempniak, and PDG down to Charlotte. They may or may not get claimed off of the waiver wire (I think the latter). He could bring up the youngsters. But in this case he is listening to his coach. The same coach who plays Wallmark for 5 or 7 minutes while giving Ryan 18.

While this may indeed be a culture thing or a failure at the top, right now it feels to me like it is a battlefield leadership thing and, like it or not, that starts with the coach. I've not been a fire Peters advocate, but I am becoming a blame Peters champion. It is his job to ensure the individual players perform and that the team wins. That isn't happening.

 

[tarheelhockey]

For whatever reason, we can blame it on Francis or we can probably more accurately blame it on Peters. The team isn't performing up to its capabilities. I'm not one to feel this team is untalented. It isn't. There is plenty of skill. We have fast players. We even have a few strong players (although if I were to point to a deficit, that would be my hill to die on). For all the "Peters is getting the most he can out of these players" crowd, what then is exactly the coaches job? They have one and only one job description....you're in charge of making sure your players win games.

I don’t know how you can look at this team and say they have an abundance of skill. They just don’t. Put the depth chart up against a good team’s. Where do we have an advantage? Defensive depth, yes. Centers, definitely not. Wingers, probably not. High end forward talent, no. High end defensive talent, not really. Goal, no.

It’s a weak lineup for a team that doesn’t want to see itself in full-on rebuild mode. I don’t see how you look at the coach and say “it’s your job to win, make these guys win” when it’s pretty obvious that we lose the matchup game almost every night.

If Ron really wanted to, he could send Ryan, Stempniak, and PDG down to Charlotte. They may or may not get claimed off of the waiver wire (I think the latter). He could bring up the youngsters. But in this case he is listening to his coach. The same coach who plays Wallmark for 5 or 7 minutes while giving Ryan 18.

Francis is listening to his coach!?

I daresay the past 12 months have shown the exact opposite of that. Francis could hardly be more open in ignoring what Peters asks him to do.

 

[vorbis]

I don’t know how you can look at this team and say they have an abundance of skill. They just don’t. Put the depth chart up against a good team’s. Where do we have an advantage? Defensive depth, yes. Centers, definitely not. Wingers, probably not. High end forward talent, no. High end defensive talent, not really. Goal, no.

It’s a weak lineup for a team that doesn’t want to see itself in full-on rebuild mode. I don’t see how you look at the coach and say “it’s your job to win, make these guys win” when it’s pretty obvious that we lose the matchup game almost every night.

I get what you're saying and I for one don't expect the coach to be a miracle man.

however, so many of the areas where you would expect the coach to have an impact, whatever the overall strengths of the roster, you aren't really seeing that on a consistent basis with Peters.

development of young players, galvanizing team resources and performance under pressure, overall team consistency, players in roles that maximize their talents, and so on. that's really the foundation of me feeling like his time might be coming to an end.

it seems he could really find success with a more veteran-focused roster. which, obviously is not the type of roster in Raleigh.

 

[Ole Gil]

I really doubt Eric didn't have better offers than what he got from Minnesota. Obviously it's impossible to prove, but I think he went there because it's not a huge market with tons of pressure, it's actually the closest NHL team to Thunder Bay, and it was pretty much a perfect fit hockey wise (team needed a top 6 center and they are competing for the playoffs regularly). He made plenty of money here too, so he could afford to take a little less for a great fit.

Yup. He specifically mentioned looking for a place where he'd be put in a position to succeed as the #1 priority. It was implied a few times, and I think maybe even said out loud once, that he thought the system in Carolina stifled production.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

development of young players

This isn't true. The second Pesce, Slavin, McGinn and Hanifin showed they could handle it, he bumped up their minutes.

galvanizing team resources and performance under pressure,

This is accurate. The team panics under pressure. Which is why just getting into the playoffs would do wonders, even if it's only 2-3 home games.

overall team consistency,

Inconsistency is commensurate with a lack of talent.

players in roles that maximize their talents,

Like who? Wallmark?

 

[Stickpucker]

I don’t know how you can look at this team and say they have an abundance of skill. They just don’t. Put the depth chart up against a good team’s. Where do we have an advantage? Defensive depth, yes. Centers, definitely not. Wingers, probably not. High end forward talent, no. High end defensive talent, not really. Goal, no.

It’s a weak lineup for a team that doesn’t want to see itself in full-on rebuild mode. I don’t see how you look at the coach and say “it’s your job to win, make these guys win” when it’s pretty obvious that we lose the matchup game almost every night.



Francis is listening to his coach!?

I daresay the past 12 months have shown the exact opposite of that. Francis could hardly be more open in ignoring what Peters asks him to do.

I agree with most all of this. I like our defense and I like our wingers. We don't have a Hall, Kucherov, or Tarasenko but last year Skinner was no 6 in goals and Aho, TT, Skinner, Lindy, Williams, and Stempy is pretty good top 9 wings.

I think Peters has really f***ed with Lindy's head and another coach could get more out of him as well as actually play him at C.

Faulk and Skinner....even Rask I think are much better players than they've shown this season. I put some of that on coaching, culture, and weird things like captaincy.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I get what you're saying and I for one don't expect the coach to be a miracle man.

however, so many of the areas where you would expect the coach to have an impact, whatever the overall strengths of the roster, you aren't really seeing that on a consistent basis with Peters.

development of young players, galvanizing team resources and performance under pressure, overall team consistency, players in roles that maximize their talents, and so on. that's really the foundation of me feeling like his time might be coming to an end.

it seems he could really find success with a more veteran-focused roster. which, obviously is not the type of roster in Raleigh.

I do agree that this team is quickly becoming a bad fit for Peters, and vice versa.

Peters seems to me like someone who can take a group of ordinary players and make them more than the sum of their parts. That’s the whole concept behind the analytics-based approach that has embraced by our front office. Given a special talent or two in the mix, such a team should be hard to beat. Unfortunately we have missed out on the really special talents. That isn’t Peters’ fault, but it does put something of a ceiling on his future success here. And the way they’ve imploded at critical moments, particularly during the long homestand and leading into the TDL, has embarrassed the organization enough that you can see the end of his tenure on the horizon.

That said, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he pulls a Gallant and finds success with some other team that has a bunch of spare-parts type players and needs someone to put them all together.