News and Notes Thread VII: Ch ch ch changes

[Blueline Bomber]

IT'S NOT ABOUT CHAD LAROSE and you sir are making me nuts. It's about more of the same crap that has left us ... oh hell ... nevermind. You're not going to understand anyhow.

No, I understand. You're afraid that Francis is essentially another JR because he's making moves that JR would make. Therefore, nothing has really changed for the franchise despite the change in GM.

And I'm not saying you're wrong, simply that you're making snap judgments on Francis when he made it clear that his rehaul of the team would be in the long-term, not the short. Whether he signs Gleason or LaRose or Babchuk or whichever rehash is out there doesn't make him JR. It simply means he's found the best (and/or cheapest) option for the team. And they're short-term deals, so they won't interfere with that future plan.

If, in a couple years, we're still not seeing anything of note coming out of Charlotte, if we're still trying to force a square peg in a round hole by building around this same lame core, then you would be absolutely right in your assessment that nothing has changed.

However, as it stands right now, it's too early to tell, despite his moves (or rumors of moves, as it were)

 

[nobuddy]

i want to get hired as a scout.

my always right analysis will be crucial to the organization.

 

[My Special Purpose]

No, I understand. You're afraid that Francis is essentially another JR because he's making moves that JR would make. Therefore, nothing has really changed for the franchise despite the change in GM.

And I'm not saying you're wrong, simply that you're making snap judgments on Francis when he made it clear that his rehaul of the team would be in the long-term, not the short. Whether he signs Gleason or LaRose or Babchuk or whichever rehash is out there doesn't make him JR. It simply means he's found the best (and/or cheapest) option for the team. And they're short-term deals, so they won't interfere with that future plan.

If, in a couple years, we're still not seeing anything of note coming out of Charlotte, if we're still trying to force a square peg in a round hole by building around this same lame core, then you would be absolutely right in your assessment that nothing has changed.

However, as it stands right now, it's too early to tell, despite his moves (or rumors of moves, as it were)

Can we agree that if his goal was to do things differently than Rutherford to improve morale and give the fans some hope, he's off to a very shaky start?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Can we agree that if his goal was to do things differently than Rutherford to improve morale and give the fans some hope, he's off to a very shaky start?

If that was his goal, then yes, seeing the same team with a few rehashes included would definitely strike a blow to those fans who don't simply follow the team because certain players are dreamy and/or can fight.

However, if his goal was simply to use this year to evaluate the talent in the organization, while bringing in some of JR's castaways to both drawn in those fan favorite fans and/or possibly see if JR made a mistake by casting them away, then the signings he's making make perfect sense.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Can we agree that if his goal was to do things differently than Rutherford to improve morale and give the fans some hope, he's off to a very shaky start?

I agree, but that's not a great goal for a GM. The goal should be to make this team a consistent winner, which isn't done by giving away draft picks to take bad contracts.

 

[My Special Purpose]

If that was his goal, then yes, seeing the same team with a few rehashes included would definitely strike a blow to those fans who don't simply follow the team because certain players are dreamy and/or can fight.

However, if his goal was simply to use this year to evaluate the talent in the organization, while bringing in some of JR's castaways to both drawn in those fan favorite fans and/or possibly see if JR made a mistake by casting them away, then the signings he's making make perfect sense.

I agree, but that's not a great goal for a GM. The goal should be to make this team a consistent winner, which isn't done by giving away draft picks to take bad contracts.

The castaway comment in the first post is a silly rationalization, but I see what you're saying. I just think you're both missing the big picture. The GMs job is also to create a positive atmosphere, with winning as the main result. It's a garbage in-garbage out situation. How are the results going to be any different when we keep doing the same thing over and over? There is literally no reason to think anything will be any different in the win/loss department, and that will affect everything from ticket sales on down. The fan base was energized to hear that JR was stepping aside and RF was taking over. Now, not so much.

 

[What the Faulk]

i want to get hired as a scout.

my always right analysis will be crucial to the organization.

Extraskater.com -> click CHL -> sort by CF%


The problem with bringing back LaRose, and Gleason, and signing Malone to a two-year one-way deal, and even Jay McClement to some extent is that you're signing a bunch of pennies to money that could have been spent on a dime. If the money is there, spend it on moving forward, not reaching into the past for broken down shells.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

The castaway comment in the first post is a silly rationalization, but I see what you're saying. I just think you're both missing the big picture. The GMs job is also to create a positive atmosphere, with winning as the main result. It's a garbage in-garbage out situation. How are the results going to be any different when we keep doing the same thing over and over? There is literally no reason to think anything will be any different in the win/loss department, and that will affect everything from ticket sales on down. The fan base was energized to hear that JR was stepping aside and RF was taking over. Now, not so much.

But as you said in the other thread, the cupboard is bare as well compared to championship teams. The answer isn't to throw away top 10 picks as knee jerk decisions to get rid of bad contracts. That's not creating a positive atmosphere, or a winning product. The way other teams do it is slowly. If creating cap space to sign overpriced FAs were the key to success the Wild would've won a Cup right now. It's about the grand scheme of things, the draft, our prospect development, and not signing crippling contracts. And, as far as the "grand scheme" is concerned for RF, unless you think we could possibly compete next year, Haydn Fleury matters, and Cam Ward's contract doesn't.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The problem with bringing back LaRose, and Gleason, and signing Malone to a two-year one-way deal, and even Jay McClement to some extent is that you're signing a bunch of pennies to money that could have been spent on a dime. If the money is there, spend it on moving forward, not reaching into the past for broken down shells.

Depends on how much money is being granted to Francis.

If all he has is a dime, with multiple spots to fill in the lineup, is it better to spend that dime filling one spot with an above average player or to spend it filling 5 spots with average players?

 

[bluedevil58*]

McClmment was a role playing signing as was Malone. Gleason was for that matter as well. These were glue signings.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

McClmment was a role playing signing as was Malone. Gleason was for that matter as well. These were glue signings.

by their possession numbers it appears they were, in fact, glued to the ice

#funnyjoke

 

[tomdundo]

by their possession numbers it appears they were, in fact, glued to the ice

#funnyjoke

He says they were #glue, not #glued. Get your facts #straight.

 

[Stickpucker]

Just think we could have a 3rd line of Gerbe - Nash - Larose!!! W00t!

 

[My Special Purpose]

But as you said in the other thread, the cupboard is bare as well compared to championship teams. The answer isn't to throw away top 10 picks as knee jerk decisions to get rid of bad contracts. That's not creating a positive atmosphere, or a winning product. The way other teams do it is slowly. If creating cap space to sign overpriced FAs were the key to success the Wild would've won a Cup right now. It's about the grand scheme of things, the draft, our prospect development, and not signing crippling contracts. And, as far as the "grand scheme" is concerned for RF, unless you think we could possibly compete next year, Haydn Fleury matters, and Cam Ward's contract doesn't.

To be perfectly clear, you guys keep mentioning "throwing away top 10 picks as knee jerk decisions to get rid of bad contracts." I never said I'd do that. I just said that Cam's contract is bad enough that it's not a ridiculous thought. What I've said repeatedly is that I wouldn't have made that deal, but I wouldn't have hung up without making a counter, either. Please stop insinuating that I'd be willing to trade Fleury for the right to dump Cam's contract.

And if you guys are right that none of this matters, and all that matters is 3-5 years down the road, then it makes even less sense to sign Gleason, McClement, Malone and maybe LaRose. These guys are clearly not part of the solution, won't help us in three years, and will only hurt the image of the team as a future contender to other players who may become free agents in the next few seasons.

On top of getting better from the bottom up, we have to be changing the atmosphere here. I'm fine with that plan. I agree with that plan. But we also have to change the way we do things in the short term, and signing retreads and fringe NHLers isn't going to do it.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

He says they were #glue, not #glued. Get your facts #straight.

they glue others to ice like lazy #pikinin

 

[My Special Purpose]

Depends on how much money is being granted to Francis.

If all he has is a dime, with multiple spots to fill in the lineup, is it better to spend that dime filling one spot with an above average player or to spend it filling 5 spots with average players?

According to your own argument, it's better to spend it on one player who may make our team better in 3-5 years, than four guys who will almost certainly not change a thing in the short term.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

#soft #lazy #euro #pikitikkanen

#welcomebackrosey

 

[Wolfpuck]

#soft #lazy #euro #pikitikkanen

#welcomebackrosey

#roseytheriveterisriveting

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[bluedevil58*]

Ok. You guys are crazy. let's not add mroe grit. Let's not add a physical 4th line forward, let's not add a defensive forward that was close to a selke finalist and good in the F/O for 1M. Let's also not add a 3rd pairing defense men for 1.3M. These were all good deal.

Were you guys expecting us to land a Richards or a Iginla? I don't get it... You people are ridiculous.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

On top of getting better from the bottom up, we have to be changing the atmosphere here. I'm fine with that plan. I agree with that plan. But we also have to change the way we do things in the short term, and signing retreads and fringe NHLers isn't going to do it.

Fair, and constructive. But I still don't get why retreads are inherently bad. My issue with JR was never the players he did/didn't sign, it was his shortsightedness. Only drafting NHL-ready 1st rounders, giving out lower round picks like they're fliers, not to mention our horrible prospect development once we actually got decent pieces. As far as retreads go, I (perhaps selectively) remember them as pretty good for the most part. Cullen, Stillman, and Corvo 2.0 were all quite good. AWard was pretty bad. But in general there's nothing wrong with it.

As far as the rest of the borderline NHLers go, it just depends on what the long-term plan is. Most of these guys are on friendly contracts, and we do have to put A team on the ice. Gotta fill the roster somehow.

 

[tomdundo]

Looks like the mods are slacking now, after tarheel had his naughty word post-editing spree, and Dave ninja-edited a post in the Blackhawks thread.

 

[Unsustainable]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87951989#post87951989

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

According to your own argument, it's better to spend it on one player who may make our team better in 3-5 years, than four guys who will almost certainly not change a thing in the short term.

I do agree with this, but the way these contracts are constructed they're basically roster-fillers, which is a requirement. None of these contracts prevent us from signing someone who will help us down the line if we had the ability to sign that player in the first place.

Who do you have in mind, in the FA market?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

According to your own argument, it's better to spend it on one player who may make our team better in 3-5 years, than four guys who will almost certainly not change a thing in the short term.

If you're spending 5 million on one player (the amount of Gleason, McClement, Malone, and possibly LaRose), he better make the team better short and long term.

However, since it's pretty much agreed that we won't be competing any time soon and that Francis will likely be building for the future, it's better to fill as many holes in the lineup we have now rather than spend it all on one player, who will leave/want a raise by the time we're ready to contend again.