News and Notes Part 11: Where we find out how many goals Malone can score.

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NotOpie

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Jun 12, 2006
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No mystery as to why Skinner gets scratched....he's been playing ineffectively and lately been making lots of mistakes both offensively and defensively. Tripping on 5 on 3 was last straw.

Nash has been on his plateau for about 15 games now. Doesn't seem to be improving and certainly hasn't been moving the needle.

Peters is doing what he said, plus I think he's truly trying to see how his system works with different cogs in the wheel.
 

GoldiFox

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Apr 21, 2014
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Skinner works his butt off to change his style for Peters'.
Skinner's scoring plummets because the creativity aspect of his game is destroyed in this system.
Skinner digs in and continues to try despite the system being detrimental to his scoring and health.
Peters healthy scratches for being ineffective offensively.
????
Profit

Is he hoping that scratching him makes him try harder? I don't see it. Have said for weeks that Skinner is an awful fit in this system. Peters obviously isn't going to give an inch despite Skinner putting in a lot of work and heart.

Just seems like a bad move to me. The problem isn't Skinner. The problem is that his play style (along with Semin) is the polar opposite of what Peters is requiring.

Either Peters needs to coach to the players he has or Skinner needs to be traded. He will never be successful in this system and his value only drops with each healthy scratch and scoreless game.
 

Anton Babchuk

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The best part if the 5on 3 trip is that the camera immediately panned to semin.
there was a discussion on #twitter about the camera panning to semin after the loss to NYR. there's an obvious narrative attempting to be pushed. they did with pitkanen, too, during the lockout season. almost every icing/penalty with him on the ice was followed with a close-up of him regardless if he was the responsible. it's shameless and classless attempting to further incite hatred towards the designated whipping boys. combined with tripp it's almost intolerable. FSC is a joke. i guarantee they have camera operators instructed to track semin so they can cut to him at the appropriate moment to stir up anger. it's pure propaganda.
 

Joe McGrath

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I'll be honest, I thought Semin tripped the guy on the 5 on 3 in real time before they panned to him. It was a cluster of 5 players with Semin on the ground and he's taken those penalties before. If EStaal was one of the guys in that scrum I would've assumed it was him.
 

Ole Gil

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Skinner has been a problem every year since his rookie season.

When he was 19 or 20, whatever. He's a kid, he'll learn to play defense and a team game eventually. And the coach would stick him on the 3rd, and kick the can down the road.

Well, now he's 22 and still is a huge liability. The time for avoiding the problem is over.
 

What the Faulk

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Scoring chances against per 60 minutes, Skinner is better than McClement, Harrison, Dwyer, Sekera, Faulk, Rask, Boychuk, Malone, Bellemore, and Lindholm.

Attempts against per 60, Skinner is better than Dwyer, McClement, Bellemore, Malone, Boychuk, Harrison.

Goals against per 60, Skinner is better than Semin, Faulk, Gleason, Murphy, McClement, Sekera, Dwyer, Tlusty, Lindholm, Jordan, Hainsey, Eric, Gerbe, Rask.

He's far from good. But he's not a "huge liability".

ES graph from Jan 2

Screenshot-2015-01-02-at-5.21.02-PM-600x449.png
 
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Brock Ness Monster

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Skinner works his butt off to change his style for Peters'.
Skinner's scoring plummets because the creativity aspect of his game is destroyed in this system.
Skinner digs in and continues to try despite the system being detrimental to his scoring and health.
Peters healthy scratches for being ineffective offensively.
????
Profit

Is he hoping that scratching him makes him try harder? I don't see it. Have said for weeks that Skinner is an awful fit in this system. Peters obviously isn't going to give an inch despite Skinner putting in a lot of work and heart.

Just seems like a bad move to me. The problem isn't Skinner. The problem is that his play style (along with Semin) is the polar opposite of what Peters is requiring.

Either Peters needs to coach to the players he has or Skinner needs to be traded. He will never be successful in this system and his value only drops with each healthy scratch and scoreless game.

I was gonna replace all the "Skinner"'s with "Semin" but you threw him in there too so, I'll just reiterate the point. Making players play a system is nice, but belaboring them because they aren't producing while playing a game they can't score with is silly.

Edit: At far as the tripping goes, it looked to me like his stick got stuck in the hole in whoever's skate. Not really anything that could'ave been done, there was like 5 people in there some sometimes unfortunate things happen.
 

Ole Gil

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Scoring chances against per 60 minutes, Skinner is better than McClement, Harrison, Dwyer, Sekera, Faulk, Rask, Boychuk, Malone, Bellemore, and Lindholm.

Attempts against per 60, Skinner is better than Dwyer, McClement, Bellemore, Malone, Boychuk, Harrison.

Goals against per 60, Skinner is better than Semin, Faulk, Gleason, Murphy, McClement, Sekera, Dwyer, Tlusty, Lindholm, Jordan, Hainsey, Eric, Gerbe, Rask.

He's far from good. But he's not a "huge liability".

ES graph from Jan 2

Screenshot-2015-01-02-at-5.21.02-PM-600x449.png

Conclusion: Either Jeff Skinner is in some way comparable defensively to Justin Faulk/Patrick Dwyer, or your metric is useless.
 

What the Faulk

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Goals against is not a metric. It's a simple statistic we use every day adjusted for ice-time. It's a way of comparing a guy who gets 10 minutes of ice-time to a guy who gets 20. That's all per 60 means whenever you see it.

If a guy ranks in the middle of the team in a number of defensive categories, he can't possibly be a "huge liability". Opponents are not getting shots, chances, or goals while Skinner is on the ice. Does he have egregious lapses? Of course he does. More than others? Probably. Is he so badly defensively that he's not worth dressing despite what offense he (usually) brings? Not really. Am I going to keep asking myself questions and then answering them? Tune in next week to find out.
 

Joe McGrath

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Last night, Skinner harpooned a 5 on 3, came out on the ice after it and let his point man walk in uncontested to set up the goal that tied the game. And he hasn't had a point in 8 games. That's why he's benched.
 

Ole Gil

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Goals against is not a metric. It's a simple statistic we use every day adjusted for ice-time. It's a way of comparing a guy who gets 10 minutes of ice-time to a guy who gets 20. That's all per 60 means whenever you see it.

If a guy ranks in the middle of the team in a number of defensive categories, he can't possibly be a "huge liability". Opponents are not getting shots, chances, or goals while Skinner is on the ice. Does he have egregious lapses? Of course he does. More than others? Probably. Is he so badly defensively that he's not worth dressing despite what offense he (usually) brings? Not really. Am I going to keep asking myself questions and then answering them? Tune in next week to find out.

You are attempting to use these statistics as a metric for defensive capability. But it's coming to conclusions that are obviously false. So you should try to find better statistics to use as a metric, not reiterate the conclusion.
 

Ole Gil

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Or maybe you're just wrong?

Wrong about what? Your usage of statistics being nonsensical, or Skinner being a huge liability?

I concede Skinner might not be a huge liability. It could just be really big. Or maybe only significant. The other stuff, I'm definitely not wrong about.
 

What the Faulk

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http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1749771&page=3#respuesta

When adjusting for ice time, I'm sure we'd see the McClements and such clustered around Skinner's 9 minuses, without the offense. And to reiterate what impeach estallo said, playing in the offensive zone and creating chances of your own is another way to play "defense". He's still not an outlier.

I'm not claiming he's good. I'm claiming he's not completely horrible and that he is getting better over his career (though that's not saying much). Last night not withstanding.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Last night, Skinner harpooned a 5 on 3, came out on the ice after it and let his point man walk in uncontested to set up the goal that tied the game. And he hasn't had a point in 8 games. That's why he's benched.

Bingo. Not sure why we're looking for reasons beyond the obvious and/or the one the coach already gave.
 

Joe McGrath

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http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1749771&page=3#respuesta

When adjusting for ice time, I'm sure we'd see the McClements and such clustered around Skinner's 9 minuses, without the offense. And to reiterate what impeach estallo said, playing in the offensive zone and creating chances of your own is another way to play "defense". He's still not an outlier.

I'm not claiming he's good. I'm claiming he's not completely horrible and that he is getting better over his career (though that's not saying much). Last night not withstanding.

I'm confused as why you chose to use a metric where Skinner has been worse than every other forward as an example of why he isn't terrible defensively.
 

Elsker

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Since Jeff usually has Nash and a defensively-responsible RW as linemates, sometimes both doubling as PK'ers, it doesn't really surprise me that not many chances against occur when he is on the ice.

But that doesn't mean Jeff is individually at the mean result of the teammates that are on the ice with him.

Fails the eye test.
 

Vagrant

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Can there not be a happy medium instead of two polarities? Skinner hasn't been playing great hockey the last 10 games. Conversely, he hasn't been given the same opportunities with the same caliber of players he is accustomed to this season. One does not negate the other. I think, like many of the Hurricanes this season, he's having trouble adjusting to the system. Is there anybody on this entire team that is having their development *helped* by what Peters is doing here? Is anybody playing noticeably better than they were prior to his arrival? Faulk has taken some steps forward, but I feel like those were anticipated. And even there, his defensive game has somewhat lapsed.

My fundamental beef with Peters is that sometimes you have to give guys the proper opportunity to find their game. Now that Skinner is on the end of the Semin situation, we'll see how the narrative changes to fit the situation. In truth though, I have never seen a coach scratch so many valuable players on any given night. Semin, Lindholm, and Skinner all Healthy Extras in the past three games speaks to..... something. I don't know exactly what. I think these moves are the moves of a desperate man.
 

Elsker

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In truth though, I have never seen a coach scratch so many valuable players on any given night. Semin, Lindholm, and Skinner all Healthy Extras in the past three games speaks to..... something. I don't know exactly what. I think these moves are the moves of a desperate man.

I don't think he would be doing this if we were in the playoff chase

But in a year-long training camp season, with 30+ games to play, he can afford to play the long con.
 

Blueline Bomber

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We've never seen a coach scratch valuable players because we've never had a coach that's held players accountable for ****** play. And for some reason, when we get a coach that's willing to do that on a lost season, it's somehow a bad thing.
 

A Star is Burns

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I still think Peters needs to find some flexibility for players that don't fit his system. Otherwise, we just kill a bunch of good players value to our team, and their value in a trade. It's not as easy as some have said to just play the system the coach wants and excel at it. Some guys don't fit a system to a tee and good coaches know how to work with that if a player is good and has other strengths. I think there is a lot of good Peters seems to bring to the team, but I don't like his lineup decisions before or during games a lot of times. And his reasoning for decisions seems off to me when he provides reasoning.

As for Skinner for Kane, I am still in the keep Skinner overall camp. I don't consider him completely untouchable though, and I would trade him in the right scenario, but I would definitely not trade him for Evander Kane personally.
 

bleedgreen

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System rarely impacts a goal scorers ability to score goals. Peters isn't to blame for anyone's scoring struggles. What about this system stifles them? I see skinner doing mostly the same things off the rush he always does, ditto semin. Skinner just doesn't have confidence right now. It's not because of peters.
 
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