GDT: New York Islanders @ Carolina - Game 4

[Boom Boom Apathy]

.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Some seem to want go out of their way to ignore things that are clearly evident when it comes to what they (RBA, Waddell, ) have done and how much credit they deserve.

To a player, they all talk about how they play for each other and would go through a wall for Rod. How he’s handled goalies to build up confidence (vs make a f***ing save). Having the right captain vs no/co-captains. The work ethic and accountability he’s instilled. Giving guys chances that earn it. Playing AHL call ups vs 4 min of ice time, How he’s handled Svechnikov. Getting the most out of Faulk, Etc..

I 100% agree that this team isn’t the most talented and that the only chance at succeeding is by outworking the opponent. To be able to do that for 4 months straight when the chips were down, rebounding from bad losses, fighting through injuries, is a testament to the leadership IMO.

Peters constantly complained about not enough talent, and he wasn’t wrong, but RBA got a team that was icing a combination of Aho, Wallmark, Martinook, Bishop and McKegg down the middle for a large chunk of the season to post one of the best records in the 2nd half and into the ECF. That wasn’t just because we now had decent goaltending (although that was a component but one that can’t be completely divorced from coaching)

It boggles my mind that we’d even question how much credit RBA should get when he took a team that was one of the youngest in the NHL, had the lowest payroll, was loaded with AHLrs/4th liners, had 2 goalies nobody wanted and have done what they have done.

I’m not sure that it’s going to be sustainable year after year and I agree the team needs more talent, but what happens next year or the year after that is 100% irrelevant to the job he’s done this year.

 

[NotOpie]

We have goalie issues, forward depth issues. We’re likely to be in just as hard a fight for the playoffs next year, eventually we’re going to need more than a team that loves its coach and each other. We’ll need more talent.

I’m not sure that it’s going to be sustainable year after year and I agree the team needs more talent, but what happens next year or the year after that is 100% irrelevant to the job he’s done this year.

But what if...we actually found our goalie(s), our AHL affiliate was actually providing quality depth, and that the next man up actually was talented. I'm not saying all of those things are true, but Mrazek has shown in the past that he can be the real deal. AHLers have come up for other teams and been productive players that were just relishing their chances (not necessarily a McKegg, but maybe a Foegele....or maybe both). In the end, maybe most of the talent we currently need are the guys in Charlotte that are honing their game, playing for each other down there....I'm not saying that's the case, but it feels more like it this time than ever before.

 

[zman77]

Don Cherry: "Front Running Fans".............There's a New Logo!!
"They know it's the wrong thing to do or they'd do it in the Play-Offs."
"Front Running Fans as far as I'm concerned!"
Don, you like Hamilton the Pig. Nod.
"I don't embrace nothin'!"

 

[zman77]

Sara on Don Cherry

 

[zman77]

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

But what if...we actually found our goalie(s), our AHL affiliate was actually providing quality depth, and that the next man up actually was talented. I'm not saying all of those things are true, but Mrazek has shown in the past that he can be the real deal. AHLers have come up for other teams and been productive players that were just relishing their chances (not necessarily a McKegg, but maybe a Foegele....or maybe both). In the end, maybe most of the talent we currently need are the guys in Charlotte that are honing their game, playing for each other down there....I'm not saying that's the case, but it feels more like it this time than ever before.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but we've seen what a set back in goaltending, injuries from a long playoff run, etc.. can do to a team's chances the following year. Teams like Pens and Caps have had superstars entrenched at the top of their line-ups and a level of stability in goal which has led to sustained success. I'm not sure the Canes have either right now, but maybe they will get stable goaltending and maybe guys like Necas, Gauthier, Geekie, Saarela, etc... filling voids and be the needed talent influx. The Metro is going to be a bloodbath for the foreseeable future so I do agree with Bleed on that point, that we could just as easily be fighting for a playoff spot next year.

The point I was making in the line you quoted though was that what happens next year has nothing to do with the job RBA did this year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Don Cherry has done nothing but help the Canes with his rhetoric. Canes already had an "us against them" mentality and the Bunch of Jerks just helped re-enforced it. The more he spews, the more the team and the fans get into it. I think it's great.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm not saying that can't happen, but we've seen what a set back in goaltending, injuries from a long playoff run, etc.. can do to a team's chances the following year. Teams like Pens and Caps have had superstars entrenched at the top of their line-ups and a level of stability in goal which has led to sustained success. I'm not sure the Canes have either right now, but maybe they will get stable goaltending and maybe guys like Necas, Gauthier, Geekie, Saarela, etc... filling voids and be the needed talent influx. The Metro is going to be a bloodbath for the foreseeable future so I do agree with Bleed on that point, that we could just as easily be fighting for a playoff spot next year.

The point I was making in the line you quoted though was that what happens next year has nothing to do with the job RBA did this year.

Oh, I absolutely get what you guys are saying and there's no doubt the real difference maker is Roddy.

Also, we've had a number of instances where we were "sure" that select Checkers (Dalpe, Bowman, et al) were the answer. So while I don't want to fall into that trap again, my point was we are potentially in an embarrassment of riches situation.

In the end, the team will have to determine whether bringing in a guy like Duchene or some such is the right move. Or do we give a guy like Saarela a real shot? I'm not sure what the answer is, but we've been burned depending on our farm system to provide that level of talent.....and we've benefited from seeing that same system serve up solid role players.

I've spent a bit of time looking through some possibilities and I'll say this again...if we want to bring in real blue chip talent, then some fan favorite, journeymen are going to go a packin'.

I'm slightly less concerned about the depth issue but I do think we will have to IDENTIFY another talented, scoring forward for next season to keep the train rolling.

Finally, for the record, given the Metro's make up, we're going to have to battle for the playoffs each and every season.

 

[Borsig]

Why does someone have to go packing? We are at 78% ish of cap? We have plenty of cap space to bring in a guy even after Aho.

Or is dundon going to be a tight ass still and squader these years after we have shown him we will pack the house for a winning team?

 

[emptyNedder]

It boggles my mind that we’d even question how much credit RBA should get when he took a team that was one of the youngest in the NHL, had the lowest payroll, was loaded with AHLrs/4th liners, had 2 goalies nobody wanted and have done what they have done.

In the end, maybe most of the talent we currently need are the guys in Charlotte that are honing their game, playing for each other down there....I'm not saying that's the case, but it feels more like it this time than ever before.

I agree with BBA that Brind’Amour has done a fantastic job. However, I think NotOpie's point is often missed. For instance Wallmark was the best player in the AHL last season--not Kapanen or Johnsson who so many folks want us to trade for. I made the comparison before (I am not saying he can duplicate the success at the NHL level), Wallmark looked like the Nicklas Backstrom of the AHL. He made his line mates better every shift. He may not be the fastest skater or have the best shot, but Wallmark is likely to be a top 3rd-line center and perhaps even a serviceable 2nd-line center--remember he was a rookie. BBA's point is valid if you substitute rookies for "AHLers/4th liners."
For the first month of the season every time McElhinney was in goal the broadcast would show a graphic that he had something like the 2nd best GAA and 4th best sv% since the start of 2017. He was a terrific pickup, but it is not like he wasn't already a top-tier NHL goalie. The only question was about his ability to play more than 25 games.
I most agree with NotOpie about the talent in Charlotte. Look at Tampa. They developed Johnson, Gourde, Point and now have Cirelli and Joseph.
As far as talent on the current roster. Would you call a team with Tavares, Wheeler, Schenn, and Jordan Staal short on talent. Look at Aho's numbers they are almost identical to Tavares' numbers the first three seasons, TT is actually producing more than Wheeler at the same stage in his career. Niederreiter is like fellow #5 draft pick Schenn. The no talent narrative has been around so long it is hard to let go. But the Canes are icing a solid team.
Both RBA being a top-notch NHL coach and the organization being able to produce high-level talent (I can't think of any reason why Necas can't become as productive as Tyler Johnson or Gauthier can't be as good as Anthony Mantha) can be true at the same time.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why does someone have to go packing? We are at 78% ish of cap? We have plenty of cap space to bring in a guy even after Aho.

Or is dundon going to be a tight ass still and squader these years after we have shown him we will pack the house for a winning team?

I don't think it's about being cheap, I think it's just roster space and about paying what you think a guy is worth and a limit to how many bottom six players you can have. You also have to consider down the road when other guys like Necas and Svech might command big paydays.

 

[emptyNedder]

Why does someone have to go packing?

I get NotOpie's point. There are only 12 forward spots. Ferland is the only forward not likely to return. Necas is a near certainty to be on the opening night roster. If another Checker earns a spot and the team trades Faulk for a forward, then there won't be a roster spot for two players who are currently on the roster. I think most would argue that upgrading McKegg is reasonable. But after that--McGinn or Foegele or Wallmark?

 

[Borsig]

Well, we need someone "like" Ferland. Someone who can absolutely level people.

Same time, we do need more top 6 forward talent.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

Well, we need someone "like" Ferland. Someone who can absolutely level people.

Same time, we do need more top 6 forward talent.

Random q. did your wife settle on a jersey?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Obviously we have new fans coming on board now that the team is good and they’re making a nice run in the playoffs. I can only imagine how exciting it is for the city.

As far as the criticism of bandwagon fans or “front runner fans” as Cherry is calling them - what are they supposed to do? What’s the correct procedure for becoming a new fan in his eyes? Can you only start following a team at the beginning of a season?

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Funny, when fans in Chicago didn't show up to watch a bad team, or any other "established hockey market", it's called "speaking with your wallet". But when fans gave up on a putrid Canes organization, it's because we don't deserve a team here.

Don Cherry is in front of a long line of people who can kiss our grits.

 

[Borsig]

Random q. did your wife settle on a jersey?

Yeah
Black women's one.

 

[bleedgreen]

But what if...we actually found our goalie(s), our AHL affiliate was actually providing quality depth, and that the next man up actually was talented. I'm not saying all of those things are true, but Mrazek has shown in the past that he can be the real deal. AHLers have come up for other teams and been productive players that were just relishing their chances (not necessarily a McKegg, but maybe a Foegele....or maybe both). In the end, maybe most of the talent we currently need are the guys in Charlotte that are honing their game, playing for each other down there....I'm not saying that's the case, but it feels more like it this time than ever before.

Mrázek has been highly touted before and available for a reason. He put it together this year but he’s been injury prone in the past. Even if he’s healthy enough Mcbackup provided the calmness this team desperately needed until Mrázek took over imo fairly late in the season. We will miss that calmness if we give that job to Ned. It will be a different dynamic and if PM gets hurt?

Necas has looked good but is still a huge question mark. We love our depth in Charlotte but none of them look like sure shots to be above the third line. Maybe that’s all we need, but again counting on Charlotte has hurt us in the past so there should be no assuming that’s gonna play out.

Think of everything that had to go right this season to get into the playoffs. McKegg’s week. Ferland’s start. Hamilton’s back half. The goalies going back and forth. All those little battles won. We got a little lucky there, and we took advantage of almost every chance we got in the back half.

I think counting on or assuming all those things will go right again gets us another top 10 pick. I’ve seen the Avs surprise themselves multiple times over the last ten years, having a much better season then they thought they were going to have during a new reshuffle. The following year was always rough because they believed it was the new baseline, when it was just the first step and they had overachieved to create a false baseline. Look at us the year after our best seasons in the past?

I’m just saying it’s a mistake to not aggressively move forward this off season. There was a collection of small miracles mixed with chemistry and good feels. Next year and the years beyond may require just being a better team. We shouldn’t assume the golden hand of Rod will lift us above all team building needs. There’s nothing wrong for someone to say, “hey, maybe this is just a great year and not magical coaching? Maybe there’s a collection of good things that went right and here we are?”.

Does it change the fun? It shouldn’t. Next year is next year and tackle it in the offseason.

 

[bleedgreen]

Well, we need someone "like" Ferland. Someone who can absolutely level people.

Same time, we do need more top 6 forward talent.

We’ve missed him I think, and if he does leave it will be very tough to replace that. He was a very good fit when healthy.

 

[Borsig]

Who else is going to nuke Marchand when he slwefoots or elbows Svech in the head? Because you know that's exactly what's going to happen.

Mark it down. First thing Marchand does is go after Svech, Slavin, or one of the Finns.

 

[The Jerk Store]

Yeah
Black women's one.

 

[SlavinAway]

Who else is going to nuke Marchand when he slwefoots or elbows Svech in the head? Because you know that's exactly what's going to happen.

Mark it down. First thing Marchand does is go after Svech, Slavin, or one of the Finns.

I’ll sign a one day contract and take him out if he tries that.

 

[NotOpie]

As much as I like them both, I could see one or all 3 of Wallmark, McGinn, and/or McKegg (although McKegg is a UFA) shipped out along with Faulk as part of a package for that higher talent player. As of right now, however the lines look like this:

McGinn/Aho/Williams
Niederreiter/Staal/Teravainen
Svechnikov/Wallmark/Foegele
XXX/McKegg/Martinook

Slavin/Hamilton
Pesce/Faulk
de Haan/TVR

If/as the team continues to play well, the potential that somebody nobody wants to see leave might not have to go. If Ferland isn't re-signed, then you need to keep some grit....McGinn, Foegele, and Martinook bring that as well, but is it enough....and is it enough to keep them on the squad if a more talented player surfaces.

Speaking of talent, the previously mentioned Saarela, Gauthier, Necas, Geekie, or even Roy will all push to make the big club. On the back end, Jake Bean and Roland McKeown are both likely NHL ready. And what about a guy like Poturalski or even Patrick Brown (who has shown up well this post season). The key point is that there's potential, but you never know what you have until actual game play.

In the end, I think Svech and/or Nino will be on the top line as a wing, the other ends up next to Jordan on the 2nd line. McGinn is probably better suited on the 3rd/4th line. McKegg is likely signed by another team. So your bottom 6 is likely some combination of Foegele, McGinn, Wallmark, and Martinook, leaving a couple of slots for a Checker (or two) and/or a scoring 3rd liner (a Brett Connolly type perhaps?).

I guess all of this represents good problems to have, but some might not feel we're doing enough to upgrade our offense.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’ll sign a one day contract and take him out if he tries that.

We need a Tonya Harding.