New Westminster BC

crobro

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Aug 8, 2008
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Is it time to look at New Westminster as a minor pro team? Yes queens park arena can still fill 5000 with standing room .

Gives the Vancouver urbanites which includes Vancouver new west,Coquitlam a chance to check out Canucks prospects in person

Could probably book the coliseum for the Utica Games.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
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Auburn, Maine
Is it time to look at New Westminster as a minor pro team? Yes queens park arena can still fill 5000 with standing room .

Gives the Vancouver urbanites which includes Vancouver new west,Coquitlam a chance to check out Canucks prospects in person

Could probably book the coliseum for the Utica Games.
SINCE WHEN has Trevor Linden ever stated that the Canucks are leaving Utica, there's likely a caveat in that agreement which says Vancouver has to find another franchise or team for Esche to operate...
 

PCSPounder

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Hutch still seems to equate the AHL with some sort of Posse Comitatus belief that the NHL can be dictated instead of what recent history has taught us. It’s amusing.

But Queens Park? Luxury suites? No, Abbotsford would suit the Canucks just fine. Langley’s closer. Or what if the perpetually proposed Surrey arena comes to be for this instead of the Giants?
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Mar 4, 2002
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Hutch still seems to equate the AHL with some sort of Posse Comitatus belief that the NHL can be dictated instead of what recent history has taught us. It’s amusing.

But Queens Park? Luxury suites? No, Abbotsford would suit the Canucks just fine. Langley’s closer. Or what if the perpetually proposed Surrey arena comes to be for this instead of the Giants?

how, PCS.... Esche asked to be a member of the AHL AND WAS DIRECTED to Vancouver when the Blues left the ownership ranks permanently, when they went to Rosemont/Glenview, IL.... Orca Bay has never stated an issue with either Esche or the Comets (originally the Ice Cats)....

Abbotsford has stated thanks, but no thanks after the Heat's flirtation were rebuked by Calgary and that was before the out clause was exercised by the city, remember, Vancouver had no ownership in any franchise until they bought the Comets, whether Esche operates it for them or not....

as for Seattle, way too early for that at this point, Mike, but I don't see Seattle crossing the International border for affiliation purposes, because that is Orca Bay's territory and that is unknown if Seattle has to pay a territory fee to Vancouver, even if the Canucks are in BC
 

Mike Jones

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as for Seattle, way too early for that at this point, Mike, but I don't see Seattle crossing the International border for affiliation purposes, because that is Orca Bay's territory and that is unknown if Seattle has to pay a territory fee to Vancouver, even if the Canucks are in BC
Good points but why would Seattle have to pay a fee to Vancouver if they located an AHL team in the Canucks' geographic area? I've never seen that anywhere before.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Good points but why would Seattle have to pay a fee to Vancouver if they located an AHL team in the Canucks' geographic area? I've never seen that anywhere before.
we don't know if they would, but whether that's a condition placed upon them.... remains to be seen....
 

Nightsquad

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Jan 25, 2014
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Good points but why would Seattle have to pay a fee to Vancouver if they located an AHL team in the Canucks' geographic area? I've never seen that anywhere before.

Vancouver and Seattle are 143 miles apart, that's a good almost 3 hours. The population of each metropolitan area is enough to sustain their own franchises. Is there a large market of Vancouver fans in Seattle? Any relocation of Vancouver's AHL club would likely include Vancouver, Abbotsford, or a number of western cities. Vancouver unless agreed to in writing would be under no obligation to find a team for Utica, although I am sure out of gratitude they would "put in a good word" lol. I would have to think at some point logistics and travel costs would become an issue but at the surface the Vancouver-Utica relationship seems to work well. If it works for Vancouver, and Utica is obviously happy, why mess with it, right?
 
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DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
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Seattle wouldn't put their AHL team in Canada. They'd look at Portland or somewhere in the Seattle Metro first if they wanted to be close, but I think they affiliate with a team in California.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Seattle wouldn't put their AHL team in Canada. They'd look at Portland or somewhere in the Seattle Metro first if they wanted to be close, but I think they affiliate with a team in California.
Makar, there's no city available in California now, that a) didn't have a previous franchise in CA in the ECHL, DOUBTFUL as well that Allen would even allow pro hockey at MODA, truly the Winterhawks are already there just as the Thunderbirds are in Kent, much less, so not buying Portland, and the two cities already discussed as logistically possible.... Sacramento, fail, if 15K is too big for an NHL Team nevermind the configuration issues at Golden 1 Center.... Fresno, yeah, good luck there.... after Save Mart vs Seiland AND THE BACKGROUND history over why the Falcons collapsed three months after the Augusta Lynx did back in 2007/08...

San Diego's taken... Bakersfield taken Ontario taken Stockton taken, and add the SAC Kings affiliate INTO THAT ARENA, yea right. Will SVSE retain the Barracuda at SAP Pavilion just as they have the last 2 +years.... Absolutely.
 

axecrew

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Feb 6, 2007
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how, PCS.... Esche asked to be a member of the AHL AND WAS DIRECTED to Vancouver when the Blues left the ownership ranks permanently, when they went to Rosemont/Glenview, IL.... Orca Bay has never stated an issue with either Esche or the Comets (originally the Ice Cats)....

Abbotsford has stated thanks, but no thanks after the Heat's flirtation were rebuked by Calgary and that was before the out clause was exercised by the city, remember, Vancouver had no ownership in any franchise until they bought the Comets, whether Esche operates it for them or not....

as for Seattle, way too early for that at this point, Mike, but I don't see Seattle crossing the International border for affiliation purposes, because that is Orca Bay's territory and that is unknown if Seattle has to pay a territory fee to Vancouver, even if the Canucks are in BC

Vancouver didn't buy the Comets....They bought the Peoria Riverman and moved them re-naming them the Utica Comets
 

RowdyFan42

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Apr 22, 2015
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Seattle wouldn't put their AHL team in Canada. They'd look at Portland or somewhere in the Seattle Metro first if they wanted to be close, but I think they affiliate with a team in California.
I could see Seattle putting their AHL team in Canada *IF* Vancouver ever moves the Comets to Western Canada. Otherwise, it would indeed make more sense to keep their AHL team stateside due to travel expenses and logistics.
 
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DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
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Makar, there's no city available in California now, that a) didn't have a previous franchise in CA in the ECHL, DOUBTFUL as well that Allen would even allow pro hockey at MODA, truly the Winterhawks are already there just as the Thunderbirds are in Kent, much less, so not buying Portland, and the two cities already discussed as logistically possible.... Sacramento, fail, if 15K is too big for an NHL Team nevermind the configuration issues at Golden 1 Center.... Fresno, yeah, good luck there.... after Save Mart vs Seiland AND THE BACKGROUND history over why the Falcons collapsed three months after the Augusta Lynx did back in 2007/08...

San Diego's taken... Bakersfield taken Ontario taken Stockton taken, and add the SAC Kings affiliate INTO THAT ARENA, yea right. Will SVSE retain the Barracuda at SAP Pavilion just as they have the last 2 +years.... Absolutely.

No shit, CHRDANHUTCH... I was giving an example as to why Seattle wouldn't put their AHL team in Canada. Clearly, I do not know where their affiliate would be. Vegas and Chicago Wolves made sense in so many ways. I think San Antonio will likely be Seattle's affiliate as of right now, but I just can't see it happening. Although, nobody thought the Chicago Wolves would ever affiliate with Vancouver.


I could see Seattle putting their AHL team in Canada *IF* Vancouver ever moves the Comets to Western Canada. Otherwise, it would indeed make more sense to keep their AHL team stateside due to travel expenses and logistics.

As far as I'm concerned, no American team has put their affiliate in Canada. Vancouver putting their AHL team in Abbotsford/Chilliwack makes too much sense. Seattle Metro would make much more sense than being in Canada.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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No ****, CHRDANHUTCH... I was giving an example as to why Seattle wouldn't put their AHL team in Canada. Clearly, I do not know where their affiliate would be. Vegas and Chicago Wolves made sense in so many ways. I think San Antonio will likely be Seattle's affiliate as of right now, but I just can't see it happening. Although, nobody thought the Chicago Wolves would ever affiliate with Vancouver.




As far as I'm concerned, no American team has put their affiliate in Canada. Vancouver putting their AHL team in Abbotsford/Chilliwack makes too much sense. Seattle Metro would make much more sense than being in Canada.
you simply do not get it, Makar.... DO YOU KNOW THE HISTORY of the Rampage, then? St. Louis isn't going anywhere now that Colorado's Eagles have already been announced.... that other bylaw that the AHL has had for over 3 decades once they eliminated independents, plays a MAJOR part in that, whether you choose to believe it, look back at teams like Baltimore prior to the Ebrights, and even Binghamton couldn't/wouldn't have survived by staying independent had the AHL not abolished them, and forced those 6 teams that came in the expansion of 2001, including the Wolves, as their fanbase will tell you vehemently, they were required by that same bylaw to be affiliated before being approved.... remember what affiliate the Wolves had originally, the Thrashers now the Jets 2.0, which kept Manitoba in the mix when TNSE acquired that franchise
 

PCSPounder

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I'm still of the mind that Seattle and Vancouver will act in tandem. There's too much money and apparent interest in Seattle, and Everett only draws so well in (inhale) Angel Of The Winds Arena (exh-freakingdumbcasinosponsornamedarena-ale) such that it's really almost inevitable to keep that in the region. Vancouver then brings their team closer because that'll make for good travel partners.

I know, Everett could easily reach the WHL finals this year, they'll get interest again finally, then what? I suppose there's always the small chance the AHL could supplant the Thunderbirds instead, but my picking Everett was based more on them having the better arena. Tacoma could be a wildcard, I guess?

BTW, for the record, the Winterhawks lease with Vulcan aka Paul Allen says that Vulcan can only negotiate with the WHL... and the NHL. That doesn't mean there aren't out-clauses for either side, nor would I put the Winterhawks in a safe category the way things could go down, but it's a fair bet the Winterhawks won't give up the ghost right away. Eventually... perhaps.
 
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Avsrule2022

"No more rats"
Apr 4, 2012
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What if NHL Seattle comes in and decides they don't want to own the expansion AHL team, just like Vegas did? That would leave open a ton of possibilities.
 

axecrew

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Feb 6, 2007
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What if NHL Seattle comes in and decides they don't want to own the expansion AHL team, just like Vegas did? That would leave open a ton of possibilities.

IF that were to happen, then in my opinion, I think you would see the Seattle - San Antonio thing possibly come to reality. I could see the AHL BOG relenting and releasing St. Louis from it's purgatory and allow them to purchase the existing franchise(#32) and them moving it to wherever. Thus freeing San Antonio to then partner with Seattle.

The wildcard in all of this is, of course, does St. Louis now want to own a franchise again? We've heard a ton of speculation, but have they actually come out and said that??
 
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PCSPounder

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What if NHL Seattle comes in and decides they don't want to own the expansion AHL team, just like Vegas did? That would leave open a ton of possibilities.

Then they'd be a lot dumber than we think. They've got a lot of money from deposits that make a statement of their own in the Puget Sound area.

Not that this couldn't happen. It'd be a different conversation if we were having Vegas levels of PRE-interest. Or there's an option to solidify a regional TV market (with Boise as the target). However, there's money to be had locally.
 

Nightsquad

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Jan 25, 2014
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I find this topic boring and irrelevant. All this is just filler discussion which is fine but until Seattle has an NHL club announced, or Vancouver intends to relocate from Utica I don't find this thread much fun lol. If travel (player movement) isn't an issue for Vancouver then why even mess with a system that is not broken?
 
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Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
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Is it time to look at New Westminster as a minor pro team? Yes queens park arena can still fill 5000 with standing room .

Gives the Vancouver urbanites which includes Vancouver new west,Coquitlam a chance to check out Canucks prospects in person

Could probably book the coliseum for the Utica Games.


Vancouver GIants moved to Langley for a reason

I am going to say something that either Vancouverites will agree with or disagree with

When the team is winning(regardless of sport) people in the lower mainland get behind it--when they struggle the lower mainland will find other things to spend their money on (I lived in Van for about 15 year)--they do have some hard core fans but they also have the fans that will go "why would I waste money on a product that loses"--there are a lot of things to spend your money on in Vancouver and area.

how does it relate to the AHL?

Some cities are hockey mad enough for an ahl or whl team and some cities are not that hockey mad.. for me Vancouver is not that hockey mad

second problem is travel

the tried AHL in Abbotsford a few years ago and it did not work
mostly due to $$$$
 
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Nightsquad

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Vancouver GIants moved to Langley for a reason

I am going to say something that either Vancouverites will agree with or disagree with

When the team is winning(regardless of sport) people in the lower mainland get behind it--when they struggle the lower mainland will find other things to spend their money on (I lived in Van for about 15 year)--they do have some hard core fans but they also have the fans that will go "why would I waste money on a product that loses"--there are a lot of things to spend your money on in Vancouver and area.

how does it relate to the AHL?

Some cities are hockey mad enough for an ahl or whl team and some cities are not that hockey mad.. for me Vancouver is not that hockey mad

second problem is travel

the tried AHL in Abbotsford a few years ago and it did not work
mostly due to $$$$

The whole Abbotsford argument that it tried and failed doesn't wash with me. I get what people are saying about the financial struggles of the team but that was due in part to poor financial agreements, and the fact you had a team clearly in Vancouver's backyard that was affiliated with a rival club. That in itself is no measure of whether a new team could be success or failure. I will use Springfield as a prime example. Springfield was the whipping boy of the AHL for many years, just as Albany was the last two seasons ago. Springfield written off as dead, unsustainable, un deserving of professional hockey. Fast forward a couple of years, new ownership, management, affiliation, and new name and logo later and oh how my do the naysayers forget lol. Same with Lowell Mass, until the Devils rolled into their town painting the town red and doing away with the Lock Monster name and logo after purchasing the Lowell AHL team the franchise had been doing somewhat okay, even under affiliations with Islanders and Carolina despite being clearly a Bruins market. The Devils burnt their relationship with the fans in Lowell. In most cases just throwing a hockey team out on the ice is not good enough to earn support. There are a million ways to Sunday on ruining that "customer" fan relationship. NHL clubs need to treat their AHL and even ECHL affiliates with a level of mutual respect. If not fans wont buy into it, that is where losses start piling up.
 

PCSPounder

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The whole Abbotsford argument that it tried and failed doesn't wash with me. I get what people are saying about the financial struggles of the team but that was due in part to poor financial agreements, and the fact you had a team clearly in Vancouver's backyard that was affiliated with a rival club. That in itself is no measure of whether a new team could be success or failure. I will use Springfield as a prime example. Springfield was the whipping boy of the AHL for many years, just as Albany was the last two seasons ago. Springfield written off as dead, unsustainable, un deserving of professional hockey. Fast forward a couple of years, new ownership, management, affiliation, and new name and logo later and oh how my do the naysayers forget lol. Same with Lowell Mass, until the Devils rolled into their town painting the town red and doing away with the Lock Monster name and logo after purchasing the Lowell AHL team the franchise had been doing somewhat okay, even under affiliations with Islanders and Carolina despite being clearly a Bruins market. The Devils burnt their relationship with the fans in Lowell. In most cases just throwing a hockey team out on the ice is not good enough to earn support. There are a million ways to Sunday on ruining that "customer" fan relationship. NHL clubs need to treat their AHL and even ECHL affiliates with a level of mutual respect. If not fans wont buy into it, that is where losses start piling up.

You mentioned how the Devils burned Lowell and missed the parallel to how Calgary burns multiple markets (like they did in Abbotsford and are currently doing to Stockton, not to mention Omaha and Quad City and...). Just think the parallel is worth noting.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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You mentioned how the Devils burned Lowell and missed the parallel to how Calgary burns multiple markets (like they did in Abbotsford and are currently doing to Stockton, not to mention Omaha and Quad City and...). Just think the parallel is worth noting.
You mentioned how the Devils burned Lowell and missed the parallel to how Calgary burns multiple markets (like they did in Abbotsford and are currently doing to Stockton, not to mention Omaha and Quad City and...). Just think the parallel is worth noting.

how did Calgary burn Saint John, PCS, Calgary partnered with local ownership, even there in Saint John, and still the group running it for Calgary went belly-up, despite a championship in 2001, the same season the league absorbed what had been the IHL, same thing occurred in Omaha, and QC (AND even now, QC is a footnote in hockey history, whether it be the Mallards or the Flames, and independent of league affiliation,) how are they burning Stockton, PCS, when Sacramento is joining them with their G-League franchise in the same arena....
 

Nightsquad

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Jan 25, 2014
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You mentioned how the Devils burned Lowell and missed the parallel to how Calgary burns multiple markets (like they did in Abbotsford and are currently doing to Stockton, not to mention Omaha and Quad City and...). Just think the parallel is worth noting.

Well that is true to, Calgary has been messed up with their AHL teams as well. Their brief stint as secondary affiliate in Lowell, their Quad City torching (pun intended) of a once strong UHL city, their fiasco in Glens Falls NY, and their success in Stockton remains to be seen. I wasn't leaving Calgary out of the parallel but just pointing out that other teams being in certain markets just isn't a solid fit. Same with Albany NY, they had been scorched by the Devils (pun intended) years ago into the early 2000s, by 2010 the Albany market had enough. After the Devils returned in 2010 the NY Rangers played a pre season scrimmage on a Wednesday night up in Albany against the NJ Devils. A crowd of over 9,000 fans attended the game, the crowd was a partisan Ranger majority of around 7000 fans to a little over 2000 Devils fans. It is my belief that sometimes a team with an undesirable affiliation is not a good fit which does not paint a strong picture of a markets potential.
 

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