New to HF

[sepHF]

welcome, great name

 

[Debbie Mathers]

I'm actually curious to hear more about this - I had no idea. What do you mean by traditional hockey market? That it has been played a long time there? I was under the impression that it certainly has never been very popular in Germany. Ice hockey, at least.

Seems that Drivesaitl has already done most of the work for me - thanks!

Just to add a few things:
Hockey (and yes, I do mean Ice Hockey - that one made me smile as well) has been played in Germany since the 1860s or 1870s. The oldest German club that still participates in league games dates back to 1878. Especially in southern Germany, where the winters are much colder than in the north (due to northern Germany being much closer to the sea and the Gulf Stream), hockey, up until around 30 years ago, was traditionally one of the most popular team sports. That has somewhat changed nowadays. Lots of kids turned their attention to tennis when Graf, Becker and Stich were big, and it seems that in general most kids these days either play football or chose an individual sport. Hockey, handball and basketball seem to struggle when it comes to recruiting kids.

Another thing to note is that Germany usually played in the A-group of the Hockey World Championships, even back in the day when only eight teams played in the A-tournament. Just for clarification: there are B- and C-Hockey-World-Championships as well, and teams can get relegated and promoted. Not sure the B- and C-HWC get a lot of attention in Canada, though...
Anyway, for many years, Germany was in the top 7 in the world. That only changed when the Soviet Union and the old Tchechoslovakia broke up. All of a sudden, you had like 12 more national teams competing, a fair few of them being better than Germany.

Having said all this, you obviously can't compare Germany to Canada when it comes to Hockey. That would be like comparing Canada to Germany in football.

Edit: err... I conveniently forgot about the recent performances of the German football team at the World Cup. Canada couldn't have done worse.

 

[Debbie Mathers]

welcome, great name

Hi! I actually like your name as well, because Sepp is one of the most common traditional first names in Bavaria. The typical Bavarian Sepp doesn't look a lot like the guy on your avatar, though... I'm not smart enough to upload pictures on this site yet, but just type Sepp into google pictures, and you'll get a rough idea!

 

[Aerrol]

Having said all this, you obviously can't compare Germany to Canada when it comes to Hockey. That would be like comparing Canada to Germany in football.

Edit: err... I conveniently forgot about the recent performances of the German football team at the World Cup. Canada couldn't have done worse.

Damn, stole the joke out of my mouth before I could say anything! Thanks to you and @Drivesaitl for the explanations. I didn't realize hockey was embedded for that long in German culture - most of what I had read was more recent developments of clubs starting to expand a bit more in recent years.

 

[VainGretzky]

Hey Guys!

After much time following hockey and scowering hfboards, I decided to finally make an account.

I'm a 24 year old lifelong Oiler fan living outside of Toronto (so with the exception of the finals run, McDavid and Sam Gagner's 8 point game it's been rough) and I'm looking forward to talking hockey, speculate and complain/praise Chia all with you guys!

I am very new to hf, so I hope I don't get hazed too hard

 

[780il]

Welcome to the extremely dysfunctional family known as HFOil!

 

[McFlyingV]

Ah... I wasn't aware the roster is limited to 23 players. Capfriendly shows three teams with more than 23 players as we speak. I suppose those teams will have to reduce their rosters at some point.

So we could, for example, have 2 goalies, 7 D and 14 forwards. After the Strome signing, we now have a shade under 5M$ in cap space. A fair chunk of that will probably go to the Nurse extension, and that would bring our roster to 22 players.

That basically means that if Yam and Bouchard were to make the team, one other player would have to start the season in Bakersfield, right?

You said Yam is waiver-eligible. Am I correct in assuming if he starts the season on the big team, we basically can't waive him to Bakersfield because he would instantly be snapped up by someone else as soon as he appears on the waiver list?

But... could we theoretically send Yam from the big team back to junior? Or would he appear on the waiver list as well in that case? If that case is possible at all? And does all of this apply right from the get-go, or only after he has played more than nine games?

Oh man, there is so many questions to be asked!

Some more:

You said Gravel, Aberg and Rattie are on one-way contracts. What does that mean? Are they only able to move in one direction? Like from the AHL to the NHL? Or vice versa? Or that only one move per season in either direction is allowed? Damn, this is all real tricky!

Yeah we'd have to send someone down if Yam and Bouchard both make the team.

Sorry I meant Yam, Pulju, and Koskinen are waiver exempt (don't need to clear waivers to be sent up or down from the AHL). Yam won't go back for his overage junior year he'll be in the NHL or AHL or a mixture of both. He'll be safe from waivers either way, but if he only spends 9 games in the NHL his entry level contract will slide and we will still have him on a cheap 3 year deal. If he plays over 9 in the NHL we burn a year of his contract.

One way contracts used to have waiver implications, but now a one-way just means the player makes their full salary in the AHL or NHL vs. two-way who make a much smaller AHL salary in the AHL vs. a larger NHL salary when they're in the NHL. None of this has any bearing on the cap so if you're not paying the bills don't worry about it

 

[Debbie Mathers]

Yeah we'd have to send someone down if Yam and Bouchard both make the team.

Sorry I meant Yam, Pulju, and Koskinen are waiver exempt (don't need to clear waivers to be sent up or down from the AHL). Yam won't go back for his overage junior year he'll be in the NHL or AHL or a mixture of both. He'll be safe from waivers either way, but if he only spends 9 games in the NHL his entry level contract will slide and we will still have him on a cheap 3 year deal. If he plays over 9 in the NHL we burn a year of his contract.

One way contracts used to have waiver implications, but now a one-way just means the player makes their full salary in the AHL or NHL vs. two-way who make a much smaller AHL salary in the AHL vs. a larger NHL salary when they're in the NHL. None of this has any bearing on the cap so if you're not paying the bills don't worry about it

Ah - thanks for taking the time to explain all of this. It's very much appreciated, and now things make an awful lot more sense to me. And I most certainly won't be paying the bills!

There's only one more question left now (for the time being, at least ):
I know that the rules prevent Bouchard from playing in the AHL next season, just like Yam last year. Now I am not in a position to judge what's best for Bouchard right now, but a lot of users seem to think that he hasn't got a lot to learn at junior level anymore, but one the other hand might not quite be ready to be on the big team for the entire season. It appears to me that the AHL might be ideal for him, at least for a big chunk of the upcoming season. So why would the authorities have a rule in place that prevents a grade A prospect from playing in a league in which he could potentially develop his game in the best possible way?

 

[McFlyingV]

Ah - thanks for taking the time to explain all of this. It's very much appreciated, and now things make an awful lot more sense to me. And I most certainly won't be paying the bills!

There's only one more question left now (for the time being, at least ):
I know that the rules prevent Bouchard from playing in the AHL next season, just like Yam last year. Now I am not in a position to judge what's best for Bouchard right now, but a lot of users seem to think that he hasn't got a lot to learn at junior level anymore, but one the other hand might not quite be ready to be on the big team for the entire season. It appears to me that the AHL might be ideal for him, at least for a big chunk of the upcoming season. So why would the authorities have a rule in place that prevents a grade A prospect from playing in a league in which he could potentially develop his game in the best possible way?

Not a problem. The rule is in place to protect the CHL from losing star players too early (improves the quality of the junior league). Its not always a great rule because of situations like this, but I understand why it exists.

 

[Tyrolean]

Hey Guys!

After much time following hockey and scowering hfboards, I decided to finally make an account.

I'm a 24 year old lifelong Oiler fan living outside of Toronto (so with the exception of the finals run, McDavid and Sam Gagner's 8 point game it's been rough) and I'm looking forward to talking hockey, speculate and complain/praise Chia all with you guys!

I am very new to hf, so I hope I don't get hazed too hard

Also Shriven's 62 save shutout.

 

[Fourier]

Lol, enjoyed that.

As @McFlyingV was saying, you can bury a contract in the minors for $925k of its contract and caphit. So if you bury a player in the minors (waive a player for assignment to the minors without being claimed by another team) with a $1M contract, you have a $75k caphit hit.

As far as I know (AFAIK), if players hit their bonuses, it effects how much cap you have for next season following the bonus being attained. I believe the term that will lead you into a rabbit hole of cap discussions is "tag room".

Welcome to the boards, both of you.

For the record...tag room is not about bonuses. It is in reference to the amount of money coming off the books next year as it pertains to contract renewals. For example, suppose that the Oilers were basically at the cap and that they only had $2M coming off the cap next year including Puljujarvi's current salary. The Oilers could not resign him to a $3M contract in season because they would only have $2M in tag room.

 

[Fourier]

Ah... I wasn't aware the roster is limited to 23 players. Capfriendly shows three teams with more than 23 players as we speak. I suppose those teams will have to reduce their rosters at some point.

So we could, for example, have 2 goalies, 7 D and 14 forwards. After the Strome signing, we now have a shade under 5M$ in cap space. A fair chunk of that will probably go to the Nurse extension, and that would bring our roster to 22 players.

That basically means that if Yam and Bouchard were to make the team, one other player would have to start the season in Bakersfield, right?

You said Yam is waiver-eligible. Am I correct in assuming if he starts the season on the big team, we basically can't waive him to Bakersfield because he would instantly be snapped up by someone else as soon as he appears on the waiver list?

But... could we theoretically send Yam from the big team back to junior? Or would he appear on the waiver list as well in that case? If that case is possible at all? And does all of this apply right from the get-go, or only after he has played more than nine games?

Oh man, there is so many questions to be asked!

Some more:

You said Gravel, Aberg and Rattie are on one-way contracts. What does that mean? Are they only able to move in one direction? Like from the AHL to the NHL? Or vice versa? Or that only one move per season in either direction is allowed? Damn, this is all real tricky!

Welcome...

Yamamoto is waiver exempt. I believe this was a typo in McFlyingV's post.

Actually, Aberg and Rattie are on one way contracts. This simply means that if they are sent to the minors they will receive the same salary as they would playing in the NHL. Gravel's contract is two-way. His NHL salary is $700K but if he is sent to the minors he will earn $300K. But as was pointed out despite the two-way contract Gravel would still have to clear waivers to be sent down.

The Oilers may well go with only a 22 man roster for parts of the year depending on who makes the team and who is injured. This can save them some cap space. For this reason, even if the plan is to have Yamo on the big club most of the year, he may start in Bakersfield. You may also see players being sent down at weird times when the Oilers have breaks between games then brought up without missing any game. Chicago used this move frequently to save cap space since cap space used is calculated on a day to day basis. The difficulty for the Oilers is that their farm team is not in the same area so it means some travel for players.

Koskinen is a guy that has a waiver exemption. Technically they could send him down and bring up Montoya to save money on the cap. Koskinen has a one-way deal so he would not lose salary from this move. In fact, he would actually earn a little more while techinically in the minors because AHL salaries are not subject to escrow.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Welcome...

Yamamoto is waiver exempt. I believe this was a typo in McFlyingV's post.

Actually, Aberg and Rattie are on one way contracts. This simply means that if they are sent to the minors they will receive the same salary as they would playing in the NHL. Gravel's contract is two-way. His NHL salary is $700K but if he is sent to the minors he will earn $300K. But as was pointed out despite the two-way contract Gravel would still have to clear waivers to be sent down.

The Oilers may well go with only a 22 man roster for parts of the year depending on who makes the team and who is injured. This can save them some cap space. For this reason, even if the plan is to have Yamo on the big club most of the year, he may start in Bakersfield. You may also see players being sent down at weird times when the Oilers have breaks between games then brought up without missing any game. Chicago used this move frequently to save cap space since cap space used is calculated on a day to day basis. The difficulty for the Oilers is that their farm team is not in the same area so it means some travel for players.

Koskinen is a guy that has a waiver exemption. Technically they could send him down and bring up Montoya to save money on the cap. Koskinen has a one-way deal so he would not lose salary from this move. In fact, he would actually earn a little more while techinically in the minors because AHL salaries are not subject to escrow.

What happens with bonuses when a player is traded?

Like if say jp hits bonuses on another team who is on the hook or the partial hook? Is thete a partial hook?

 

[Fourier]

What happens with bonuses when a player is traded?

Like if say jp hits bonuses on another team who is on the hook or the partial hook? Is thete a partial hook?

That's a very good question. I am assuming that it would work like signing bonuses and the cap hit would be split based on the number of days on each roster but the team who had him on the roster when the bonus is achieved would pay the actual money.

 

[McRobbiezyg]

I am more familiar with him from his short-lived time as a Nottingham Panther

Black hammers was definitely the highlight

 

[SaltNPeca]

...
Having said all this, you obviously can't compare Germany to Canada when it comes to Hockey. That would be like comparing Canada to Germany in football.

Edit: err... I conveniently forgot about the recent performances of the German football team at the World Cup. Canada couldn't have done worse.

Canada has qualified for a FIFA World Cup once (1986).
Canada is currently ranked 9th in CONCACAF, 79th overall. For a feeling please note that's behind nations like Haiti and Curaçao.
Germany is ranked 1st overall in football, 8th in ice hockey (IIHF).
All things considered Canada is a bottom feeder football nation whereas Germany is one of the top 10 ice hockey countries.

A lot of Germans make this mistake and especially with the 2018 Olympics said "it's like Canada beating Germany in football". Not even remotely close. You don't realize how brutal Canada is at football and how decent Germany is at hockey.

And Drivesaitl man in English it's Cologne, German it's Köln, if you really want to type it with a K use Koeln. It's never Koln.

 

[Debbie Mathers]

Canada has qualified for a FIFA World Cup once (1986).
Canada is currently ranked 9th in CONCACAF, 79th overall. For a feeling please note that's behind nations like Haiti and Curaçao.
Germany is ranked 1st overall in football, 8th in ice hockey (IIHF).
All things considered Canada is a bottom feeder football nation whereas Germany is one of the top 10 ice hockey countries.

A lot of Germans make this mistake and especially with the 2018 Olympics said "it's like Canada beating Germany in football". Not even remotely close. You don't realize how brutal Canada is at football and how decent Germany is at hockey.

I do agree with you - but I am new to this forum and was just trying to be as polite and humble as possible! Give it a few years, and my horrible personality will start shining through sarcastic posts!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Canada has qualified for a FIFA World Cup once (1986).
Canada is currently ranked 9th in CONCACAF, 79th overall. For a feeling please note that's behind nations like Haiti and Curaçao.
Germany is ranked 1st overall in football, 8th in ice hockey (IIHF).
All things considered Canada is a bottom feeder football nation whereas Germany is one of the top 10 ice hockey countries.

A lot of Germans make this mistake and especially with the 2018 Olympics said "it's like Canada beating Germany in football". Not even remotely close. You don't realize how brutal Canada is at football and how decent Germany is at hockey.

And Drivesaitl man in English it's Cologne, German it's Köln, if you really want to type it with a K use Koeln. It's never Koln.

I don't have that setup on my Canadian keyboard. So I obviously can't type it. Without reconfiguring the settings which would screw it up.

Again I'm from Canada. I find it silly to write Cologne, which I feel is worse form than saying Koln. Which is at least an attempt at the right name. For an English speaking person.

Finally, my dad would tell me not to EVER say or write Cologne....that its the English appropriated name for the City. Why would I use that. It would be like saying Eskimo. A fictional and erroneous name.

 

[Slats432]

Welcome to the board. After a while you'll be....

 

[Zenos]

Finally, my dad would tell me not to EVER say or write Cologne....that its the English appropriated name for the City. Why would I use that. It would be like saying Eskimo. A fictional and erroneous name.

Sorry, but in this particular case, your father was talking nonsense. Both the English and German names for the city are developments (no, not appropriated names) of the latin Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium. The name evolved over time from a common root coinciding with the development of the respective languages themselves - It's not like some english dude just arbitrarily decided to change the city's name.
The same is true for many cities which have (slightly) different names across languages: München/Munich/Monaco (yes, in Italian Munich is Monaco!) for example.

And yeah, ö=oe, never o