New Proposal Rumoured From NHLPA

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Oilers Ent, Nov 25, 2004.

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  1. Oilers Ent

    Oilers Ent Registered User

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    Well,

    Let's hope this is the news we have been waiting for. If all it took was a proposal from the NHLPA to start the ball rolling again - why wait until December to do it? Obviously the NHLPA was hoping the NHL would gave and offer them another proposal but there's no way that was happening.

    http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/sports/10269663.htm?1c
     
  2. CRAZY_FAN

    CRAZY_FAN Registered User

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    Lets hope there is some truth in this !
     
  3. dawgbone

    dawgbone Registered User

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    But the very honest and trustworthy PA says that there is no offer, and there are no plans for an offer.

    You mean to tell me the PA is being dishonest and lying?

    GASP!!!! :amazed:
     
  4. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Looks like the players will be the first to blink, even if it is only designed to improve their impasse postition.

    Nice to establish the pattern of the owners and players both saying they're 100% set in their stance only to have the players back down.
     
  5. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    So now trying to establish negotiations is considered backing down? You are too much.

    To the original post.. I don't think it matters anyway as the owners aren't interested in bargaining.. at least in good faith. Good to see the players are laying the groundwork for an appeal if the League tries to say that their is an impasse.
     
  6. Benji Frank

    Benji Frank Registered User

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    I can't read the article and am too lazy to subscribe, but Bob Mckenzie had an article a couple fo days ago mentioning somehting simular to the title.....

    http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp?id=105700

    I wonder if they appeased Betman by starting the luxury tax @ around 30,000,000 with a 25 or so cent per dollar penalty and then bumped it up to 1 for 1 @ 40,000,000 ... in the fans eyes, I'd think it would put the ball back in the owners court.
     
  7. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    By your own admission the players are not trying to establish negotiation, but simply laying the groudwork for an appeal. Hardly negotiating in good faith.

    The two sides are engaged in psychological warfare and the players are the first to blink and lose credibility. Excellent.

    In reality, this highlights the difference between the two sides. The owners mean it when they say they will wait as long as they have to in order to get a deal that works for them. The players are simply posturing. Goodenow needs to learn not to paint his group into a corner if they don't have the balls to stick it out. You just end up looking weak and ineffective with egg on your face when you have to reverse yourself.

    Let's hope their promise that they will never play under a cap is worth as much as their promise that the ball was in the owners court and that there would be no new offer coming from them until the owners had put a real offer on the table.
     
  8. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    Own admission? Last I checked I wasnt in the NHLPA or bargaining for them.

    The NHLPA needs a bit of good PR and this is an excellent way of doing it. Saying that they wouldn't do something, handing in an offer anyway, have the League reject it and then make a grand display of how they tried to start negotiations even though the ball was in the leagues court is a great way to accomplish that feat. This accomplishes three things.. gets them some positive media for trying to "save" the season, establishes position to argue that the owners are not bargaining in good faith and the third but, I admit, the most unlikely, that the owners would actually find something of interest and start to bargain.

    Remember, as you yourself have said, the general public is pretty dumb and would eat this up like they would replacement players.
     
  9. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    So really, an offer just to counteract the possibility of a declared impasse.....Goodenow and Bettman are both ******ed.

    (My apologies for anyone who is ******ed and offended by that comment.)
     
  10. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    In another thread, I posted a link showing it does not matter if the union still wants to talk and make offers if the offers don't deal with the issue the owners are declaring an impasse on. In this case, the owns are saying that they need to have salaries linked to revenues in some way. The NHLPA refuses to negotiate any link between salaries and revenues. The NHLPA can offer a 50% rollback in salaries and a 100% luxury tax starting at $20M, but that still does not resolve the impasse issue.

    I'm not a lawyer though, so I could have this wrong, but based on what I have read over the past month or so, I believe this is the case...
     
  11. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    The PR benefits are possible, but will depend how serious the offer is. If it is in anyway as laughable as their last one, it won't make any difference.

    Still, the psychological message is clear. The owners stuck to their stance and the players backed down. This will only encourage the owners and re-new faith in their tactics.

    You are taking my post out of context. I was just poking a little fun at a wounded animal and was intended to be tongue-in-cheek.
     
  12. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    The only wrinkle in that article that we haven't heard a hundred times before is the rumour of the NHL working on a pre-emtive counterproposal. I guess we'll find out soon enough how serious these two circus acts are at wanting to save the season.
     
  13. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

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    Everyone pray tonight that this is the truth and they start to negoiate..even if talks begin and Bettman DOES see potential in it he will push to dead date further back..which would be good news. But its BETTMAN we are talking about so...
     
  14. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/hockey/10265123.htm



    So what if it's not what they think?



    I think what should really get things going is to start discussing the lesser issues, the stuff they will probably agree on relatively quickly. Things like the draft, arbitration, etc.
     
  15. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    Note the difference in the two stories even though they were written by the same guy. The one printed in Philadelphia had an extra sentence:

    "The Flyers stand to lose $18 million because of the lockout, and still will have dates available any time the league wants to resume play."

    Does that square with either Arthur Levitt or Forbes?

    Tom
     
  16. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    The owners could change their minds if the NHLPA offered other things. Bettman would be the 1st to bury the "hard cap" if the NHLPA offered that.
     
  17. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Absolutely. I think they owners would accept something like that give or take a few tweaks. It curbs salary at the top end, reduces the gap between rich and poor quite a bit, provides funds for the weaker clubs to stay afloat.
     
  18. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    Yes, but if they were planning on bargaining to impasse because they feel that is the only way they will be able to tie salaries to revenues, they can't bend from their stance no matter what the union offers. Once they deviate, a judge could say it is not an impasse because they started negotiating something that did not tie salaries to revenues. I would think it would have to be one hell of a good deal for the owners to get them to deviate.
     
  19. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    I waiting to see the new player proposal in detail. More of the same or something new?
     
  20. TonySCV

    TonySCV Golden

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    You don't need to! Check out www.bugmenot.com :)
     
  21. Leafer4Life

    Leafer4Life Go Leafs Go!

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    I couldn't read the Ohio article, because I would've had to subscribe and don't really wanna do that, lol. Thanks for the links to the other articles, Benji Frank and go kim johnsson. I really hope that there's some truth to all this. I'm not on either side here, BUT I think that the owners should just accept the luxury tax, and quit dragging this darn lockout on, because it's KILLING me and millions of other people as well. WE NEED THE NHL BACK.........
     
  22. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    I think the next move the nhlpa makes is to present a generous enough offer to get EVERYONES attention within the next two weeks .

    they will be looking to sway the public into their corner by showing them that they are at least putting forth an effort to reslove things while Bettman continues his hard stance .
     
  23. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    If there is to be a new offer from the PA, and it would seem likely, I cant imagine its going to be designed in any way to win over fan support. What would be the purpose of that? Its more likely to be designed to further their negotiations cause.

    It will be interesting to see how far they go. Bettman has skillfully created uncertainty as to their position and strategy. The players have to be concerned they could seriously shut down the season if the owners arent accomodated somehow. But they certainly arent going to get cost certainty.

    If Bettman creates a strong enough impression that he is angling for battles through courts, it may force the PA to advance a less serious position with that in mind. The hardball backdfiring. But if the owners seem willing to compromise, hopefully they find a compromise that can be proposed.

    You'd think once Bettman has started the hardball, they will play it out. The owners are likely to reject any coming offer, make some kind of demand or offer designed to force the players to choose whether they accept or strike. Bettman may as well play out the maximum squeeze now. You'd figure at some point, the season will be cancelled, or a leak that arena dates are now all available will come out making everyone think the season is done. At which time some crisis management perhaps outside intervention will have one last chance. Its hard to not see this go down to the wire now. Do you believe in miracles?
     
  24. GabbyDugan

    GabbyDugan Registered User

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    Larry Brooks presents yet another suggestion that the NHLPA will come up with a proposal to the NHL. The substance is different tha n the one suggested earlier.

    http://nypost.com/sports/35272.htm

    "The proposal, which likely will be presented within the first two weeks of December, is expected to feature an increase in salary rollback — i.e., a player contract tax of up to twice the original offer of five percent; more meaningful payroll tax rates starting at lower club thresholds, and an offer to negotiate substantive changes to inflationary systemic triggers such as salary arbitration."
     
  25. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    IF the rumours are true and the players are putting a real offer forward, then the NHL has won the first big battle in this war, as the players have blinked big time.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see the details on this offer before we can really assess it's impact.
     
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