Blue Jays Discussion: New players, new uniform, new thread

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phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Tommy John for Severino.



They have to be thrilled that they didnt trade Happ. Happ went from trade candidate and 6th starter to their 3rd starter.

Bad start to the year for the Yankees, German suspended, Paxton out months and Severino out the season. The Cole signing becomes bigger and bigger as he might save their pen.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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I remain an irrationally huge fan of Santiago Espinal. Give him the utility guy spot on the bench opening day.
 
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BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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Was reading The Athletic's piece on Pearson's outing this morning and it noted that they had McGuire catch him.

That's a good call. McGuire certainly has experience handling hard stuff that generates lots of excitement.

Seems premature Nem .. Don't get too excited
 

Discoverer

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Yeah, I don't follow the draft closely until later in the season, but the idea of adding another huge, top SP prospect with big stuff to Pearson, Manoah, and SWR (not to mention a bunch more high-ceiling guys in the next tier) is awfully enticing.

For the record, SWR would be the smallest of the four at 6'3", 210. That makes it all the more unfortunate that Pardinho is out because having a scrawny 5'9" starter in that group would be a lot of fun.
 

BertCorbeau

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Yeah. I don't want to blow my load of McGuire jokes before the season even starts. I might need to take a cold shower and calm down.

tenor.gif
 

as Pure as Evil

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hockeywiz542

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Keith Law’s prospect rankings: Toronto Blue Jays – The Athletic

1. Nate Pearson, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 11)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Pearson bounced back last year from a lost 2018 season where he threw just one inning before the Arizona Fall League. A dominant 2019 campaign saw him strike out 104 batters in 83.2 innings between High A and Double A before a late-August promotion to Triple A that left him on the cusp of the big leagues. Pearson throws hard, sitting 97-100 mph and occasionally bumping 101-102, with a fierce slider that’s usually 86-90 when he starts but up to 92 when he’s pitched in relief. He even has some feel for a changeup that’s especially impressive given how hard he throws, with zero platoon split in 2019. He’s a good athlete and an extremely hard worker who looks and throws like a top-of-the-rotation starter, and the injuries he suffered in 2018 were flukes rather than anything related to his delivery. It’s control over command right now, but there’s no mechanical reason he can’t get to above-average command in time. As long as he keeps ramping up his workload, and maybe throws more quality strikes, he should end up at the top of a rotation in a few years.

2. Jordan Groshans, 3B (Top 100 rank: No. 73)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Groshans was the Jays’ first-round pick in 2018 and got off to a terrific start in 2019 in the full-season Midwest League, hitting .337/.427/.482 in 23 games for Lansing before a left foot injury ended his year. Groshans has a pure hitter’s swing and has shown an elite ability to make adjustments to pitchers so far in his brief pro tenure. He rotates his hips early, and the power he has shown to date comes more from his hand strength than his legs — although that’s as much a timing issue as anything, and if it ever becomes an issue it’s probably fixable. A third baseman in high school and in 2018, Groshans moved to short last year and wasn’t terrible, but third or second remain more likely long-term positions for him. If he improves at short enough to stay there, his average/contact/OBP combination would make him a potential star even without big power. A full, healthy year in 2020 will help establish just how advanced his bat is and whether he has the power to be a star even in a corner.

3. Alek Manoah, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 76)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: The top college pitcher — and the second one selected — in the 2019 draft, Manoah had a dominant spring for West Virginia, punching out 144 batters against 27 walks in 108 innings for the Mountaineers. He’ll sit 94-95 deep into games, touching 98, with a four-pitch mix that includes an above-average changeup at 86-88 with great arm speed. His breaking stuff is less consistent, with the slider more of a chase pitch for righties while the curveball is more effective in or near the zone. He’s very big at 6-foot-6 and 260 pounds, and he pitches with intent, attacking hitters consistently with his fastball to set up everything else, including, quite often, more fastballs. He pitches from the stretch all the time, which is atypical but not a red flag, and was used a little heavily by West Virginia in the spring. Other than that, he checks all the boxes for a mid-rotation starter.

4. Orelvis Martinez, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 89)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Martinez was just 17 in the GCL but hit seven homers, good for second in the league behind a 21-year-old org player, while also showing the plate discipline of a player a few years older. Signed in 2018 for $3.5 million, Martinez has impact tools across the board, with big-time bat speed and raw power already, as well as a 60 or better arm and great hands in the field. He’s a bit thickly built and is going to be very strong when he fills out, so the odds are he’ll end up at third base rather than at short, with a good shot to be above-average at the hot corner. He’d gotten away from the leg kick he used as an amateur but restored it last summer and went on a tear to finish his first pro season, hitting six of those seven homers in August, showing the ability to hit velocity and pick up breaking stuff as well. He’s still so young that you want to temper your enthusiasm, but he could be the Jays’ best prospect in a year.

5. Anthony Kay, LHP

Kay and No. 6 Simeon Woods Richardson were the return from the Mets for Marcus Stroman, with Kay the more advanced of the two while Woods Richardson has the higher ceiling. Kay should be a fourth starter in fairly short order; he’s consistently 92-94 mph with an above-average curveball and changeup, not having a clear plus pitch but with good feel and control. Triple A baseball didn’t agree with him, but that isn’t a reflection of how he’s pitched everywhere else.

6. Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP

Woods Richardson is a strike-thrower already at age 19, sitting 93 with an average changeup. But he lacks an adequate breaking ball, and his arm is always late relative to his landing leg. He’s a good athlete and still quite young, so it’s easy to see the upside potential. But there’s a lot of reliever risk here too between the breaking-ball issue and the delivery.

7. Eric Pardinho, RHP

A command right-hander, Pardinho will miss the entire 2020 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery and may not pitch again until mid-2021. He was up to 96 before his elbow started bothering him last season, with a four-pitch mix, but not necessarily showing a clear out pitch.

8. Gabriel Moreno, C

Moreno, who just turned 20 on Valentine’s Day, is coming off a promising partial season for Low-A Lansing where he hit .280/.337/.485 with surprising power for his build. He’s a very athletic catcher who needs work on receiving and blocking but should get there in time, with an above-average arm and good physical projection remaining.

9. Alejandro Kirk, C

Kirk has tremendous bat-to-ball skills, can receive and frame, and throws well. But he’s very heavy – listed at 5-foot-9 and 220 pounds – and has to improve his conditioning so he has the durability required for a catcher. He can really hit, though, and has walked more than he’s struck out at all three of his stops so far in pro ball.

10. Miguel Hiraldo, SS/2B

He gets overshadowed in this system by Orelvis, who has more impact at the plate, but Hiraldo has good hand-eye and makes a lot of contact, even with a slight tendency to overswing and collapse his backside. He’s probably not a shortstop in the longer term, with second base likely.
 
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jcollins

BJ Elitist/Hipster
May 13, 2009
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the barbs and jabs are cute but what i most took out of this article was this one line

Suddenly, the Jays have an abundance of interesting upper minors pitching depth

pretty sure thats all we bitched about last year

Speaking of which....anyone want to take a stab at predicting the AAA and AA rotations? I can't for the life of me make it work. Like 15+ guys for 10 spots.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

A$AP Joffrey
Aug 14, 2010
13,547
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Washington, DC
I remain an irrationally huge fan of Santiago Espinal. Give him the utility guy spot on the bench opening day.

I like him too. I prefer he get full time AB's in Triple-A, and come up when there's a semi-full time spot for him. If Cavan becomes a Zobrist swiss army knife, then I'd be comfortable giving him a shot to be the 2nd baseman. I'm a fan.



Against Army.

Speaking of which....anyone want to take a stab at predicting the AAA and AA rotations? I can't for the life of me make it work. Like 15+ guys for 10 spots.

Its tough because there's a lot of volume.

MLB: Ryu, Roark, Anderson (unfortunately), Shoemaker, Thornton
DL: Borucki
MLB BP ("starters" functioning as LR/MR/openers): Guchi-mane, Gaviglio, Pannone, Font

AAA: Pearson, Kay, SRF, Zeuch, Waguespack
DL: Merryweather
AAA BP: Tommy the Hitman Hatch (Closer)

AA: Yennsy, Murphy, Logue, Dillon, Murray
AA BP: Perez (Closer)

A+: SWR, Elvis, Castillo, Winckowski, Wymer

A: Kloff, Manoah, Williams, Monsion, Gonzalez

MLB Staff in August
Rotation: Ryu, Pearson, Borucki, Roark, Kay
BP: Guchi-mane (Closer), The Hitman, SRF

Traded at the deadline: Giles, Shoemaker, Dolis, Anderson (released)
 
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Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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Keith Law’s prospect rankings: Toronto Blue Jays – The Athletic

1. Nate Pearson, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 11)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Pearson bounced back last year from a lost 2018 season where he threw just one inning before the Arizona Fall League. A dominant 2019 campaign saw him strike out 104 batters in 83.2 innings between High A and Double A before a late-August promotion to Triple A that left him on the cusp of the big leagues. Pearson throws hard, sitting 97-100 mph and occasionally bumping 101-102, with a fierce slider that’s usually 86-90 when he starts but up to 92 when he’s pitched in relief. He even has some feel for a changeup that’s especially impressive given how hard he throws, with zero platoon split in 2019. He’s a good athlete and an extremely hard worker who looks and throws like a top-of-the-rotation starter, and the injuries he suffered in 2018 were flukes rather than anything related to his delivery. It’s control over command right now, but there’s no mechanical reason he can’t get to above-average command in time. As long as he keeps ramping up his workload, and maybe throws more quality strikes, he should end up at the top of a rotation in a few years.

2. Jordan Groshans, 3B (Top 100 rank: No. 73)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Groshans was the Jays’ first-round pick in 2018 and got off to a terrific start in 2019 in the full-season Midwest League, hitting .337/.427/.482 in 23 games for Lansing before a left foot injury ended his year. Groshans has a pure hitter’s swing and has shown an elite ability to make adjustments to pitchers so far in his brief pro tenure. He rotates his hips early, and the power he has shown to date comes more from his hand strength than his legs — although that’s as much a timing issue as anything, and if it ever becomes an issue it’s probably fixable. A third baseman in high school and in 2018, Groshans moved to short last year and wasn’t terrible, but third or second remain more likely long-term positions for him. If he improves at short enough to stay there, his average/contact/OBP combination would make him a potential star even without big power. A full, healthy year in 2020 will help establish just how advanced his bat is and whether he has the power to be a star even in a corner.

3. Alek Manoah, RHP (Top 100 rank: No. 76)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: The top college pitcher — and the second one selected — in the 2019 draft, Manoah had a dominant spring for West Virginia, punching out 144 batters against 27 walks in 108 innings for the Mountaineers. He’ll sit 94-95 deep into games, touching 98, with a four-pitch mix that includes an above-average changeup at 86-88 with great arm speed. His breaking stuff is less consistent, with the slider more of a chase pitch for righties while the curveball is more effective in or near the zone. He’s very big at 6-foot-6 and 260 pounds, and he pitches with intent, attacking hitters consistently with his fastball to set up everything else, including, quite often, more fastballs. He pitches from the stretch all the time, which is atypical but not a red flag, and was used a little heavily by West Virginia in the spring. Other than that, he checks all the boxes for a mid-rotation starter.

4. Orelvis Martinez, SS (Top 100 rank: No. 89)

From Keith Law’s Top 100: Martinez was just 17 in the GCL but hit seven homers, good for second in the league behind a 21-year-old org player, while also showing the plate discipline of a player a few years older. Signed in 2018 for $3.5 million, Martinez has impact tools across the board, with big-time bat speed and raw power already, as well as a 60 or better arm and great hands in the field. He’s a bit thickly built and is going to be very strong when he fills out, so the odds are he’ll end up at third base rather than at short, with a good shot to be above-average at the hot corner. He’d gotten away from the leg kick he used as an amateur but restored it last summer and went on a tear to finish his first pro season, hitting six of those seven homers in August, showing the ability to hit velocity and pick up breaking stuff as well. He’s still so young that you want to temper your enthusiasm, but he could be the Jays’ best prospect in a year.

5. Anthony Kay, LHP

Kay and No. 6 Simeon Woods Richardson were the return from the Mets for Marcus Stroman, with Kay the more advanced of the two while Woods Richardson has the higher ceiling. Kay should be a fourth starter in fairly short order; he’s consistently 92-94 mph with an above-average curveball and changeup, not having a clear plus pitch but with good feel and control. Triple A baseball didn’t agree with him, but that isn’t a reflection of how he’s pitched everywhere else.

6. Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP

Woods Richardson is a strike-thrower already at age 19, sitting 93 with an average changeup. But he lacks an adequate breaking ball, and his arm is always late relative to his landing leg. He’s a good athlete and still quite young, so it’s easy to see the upside potential. But there’s a lot of reliever risk here too between the breaking-ball issue and the delivery.

7. Eric Pardinho, RHP

A command right-hander, Pardinho will miss the entire 2020 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery and may not pitch again until mid-2021. He was up to 96 before his elbow started bothering him last season, with a four-pitch mix, but not necessarily showing a clear out pitch.

8. Gabriel Moreno, C

Moreno, who just turned 20 on Valentine’s Day, is coming off a promising partial season for Low-A Lansing where he hit .280/.337/.485 with surprising power for his build. He’s a very athletic catcher who needs work on receiving and blocking but should get there in time, with an above-average arm and good physical projection remaining.

9. Alejandro Kirk, C

Kirk has tremendous bat-to-ball skills, can receive and frame, and throws well. But he’s very heavy – listed at 5-foot-9 and 220 pounds – and has to improve his conditioning so he has the durability required for a catcher. He can really hit, though, and has walked more than he’s struck out at all three of his stops so far in pro ball.

10. Miguel Hiraldo, SS/2B

He gets overshadowed in this system by Orelvis, who has more impact at the plate, but Hiraldo has good hand-eye and makes a lot of contact, even with a slight tendency to overswing and collapse his backside. He’s probably not a shortstop in the longer term, with second base likely.
Kay ahead of SWR is...interesting.
 
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Gargyn

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Oct 19, 2006
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I’m loving the young starters this team is compiling. Pearson, SWR, Manoah, Kay and hopefully Lacy. In a few years this team should be pretty stacked.

1B Biggio
2B Bichette
SS Groshans
3B Martinez
DH Vladdy
LF Gurriel
CF ?? - add in free agency
RF Grichuk - prefer to upgrade
C Jansen/Kirk

SP Pearson
SP Lacy
SP Manoah
SP SWR
SP Kay
 
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