New ISS top 30 (Mar. 15th)

[leoleo3535]

My two cents:

Siemens has size, can skate and shoot but his puck moving ability is sub par at best. Can be a turnover machine.

If Grimaldi was Nugent Hopkins size there would be a different top 3 and maybe a different #1

Don't compare Ryan Murphy to Ryan Ellis, one can skate, one can't.

Bartschi isn't getting the respect he deserves.

Myles Bell is one of the more intriguing prospects ranked in the 1st.

Musil should go lower.

Oleksiak will continue to climb.

If RNH is picked first he could be the first 1st overall pick returned to junior in a long time.

Don't get to excited about this draft. None of the scouts are.

Really......I meet with scouts almost daily and they certainly aren't expressing these thoughts.

 

[R S]

My two cents:

Siemens has size, can skate and shoot but his puck moving ability is sub par at best. Can be a turnover machine.

If Grimaldi was Nugent Hopkins size there would be a different top 3 and maybe a different #1

Don't compare Ryan Murphy to Ryan Ellis, one can skate, one can't.

Bartschi isn't getting the respect he deserves.

Myles Bell is one of the more intriguing prospects ranked in the 1st.

Musil should go lower.

Oleksiak will continue to climb.

If RNH is picked first he could be the first 1st overall pick returned to junior in a long time.

Don't get to excited about this draft. None of the scouts are.

Respected your opinion until the end.

 

[arsmaster*]

My two cents:

Siemens has size, can skate and shoot but his puck moving ability is sub par at best. Can be a turnover machine.

sub-par at best???? I disagree.

If Grimaldi was Nugent Hopkins size there would be a different top 3 and maybe a different #1

Yeah he would be top 5, if he wasnt shorter than my sister.

Don't compare Ryan Murphy to Ryan Ellis, one can skate, one can't.

Ellis is a good skater he just isnt fast....solid on his skates. Murphy is extremely fast.

If RNH is picked first he could be the first 1st overall pick returned to junior in a long time.

Yeah, it would be for the best though...hope to see a team have enought 'balls' to do it.

Don't get to excited about this draft. None of the scouts are.

What scouts are you talking about here? Can you provide any basis for this argument, or are you still spewing 2 year old news from THN.

I can tell you right now, that an NHL gm felt like trading away picks 1-3 for 2010, and traded 3rds in both next year and the year after because he liked this draft class.

There is no Crosby or Ovechkin, but their could be Brad Richards, Eric Staal like players and more.

Dont like your comment at all, just shows me you havent done a ton of research on this draft IMO.

 

[hawksfan50]

Well--the ISS has finally got it right on at least 2 of the top 30--Zibanejad and McNeill are exactly where most draftniks would rate them (at mid-first) at this point in the season...I keep debating in my own mind the order of their ranking but it is so close that most should be indifferent as to preference -both should be good picks to whichever team drafts them --but being the 2 BIG centres at the middle part of round one and a drop off in that type thereafter--we could see some moveup deal attempts from some teans to get one of them...Some teams without 2nd rounders if they are looking at upgrading other position needs may trade down for a later first plus a reasonably good 2nd ...


I still do not see why SAAD ranks where they have him ...he has not had good games the few times i've seen him,but maybe it is bad luck that I"ve not seen him yet on a good performance night ...Take away his PP gooals and he really has not excelled in ES play (12 of his 27 goals are from PP) --compare to NICLAS JENSEN who has only 6 of his 29 on the PP and has a better +/- (+18 to SAAD 's +11) and who is a better skater..so I do not get the continuing overanks on SAAD putting him almost even with Jensen--not even close --compared to his pre-seson hype SAAD should have put up better numbers but did not meet expectations of the hype --so he should get a "faller" for than into the third tier of the round (in the 20's --no higher than that) ...SAAD ain't no Bobby Ryan. Sure the ISS has droped himfrom their original AUG lofty #7 --but NOT FAR ENOUGH A DROP.


THE ISS in my opinion has NATHAN BEAULIEU ranked way to low--he's got to be a mid-tier of round one talent --not inthe third tier of ten for the round..
Funny that they mention his improvement as a riser but don't credit him much in a move-up from their original AUG early ranking (only a 4 spot rise from27 to 23? Sorry
but they were too far off originally and still have not made up proper ranking ground ).


FINALLY --it looks like they have hardly budged on JOACHIM NERMARK --29th in AUG --still 29th now ---this kid has been so productive for Sweden at International Tournaments that if he shines at the World U-18's--the ISS willbe embarrassed they only have him at #29 ...One factor about him is that he is good at face-offs ...also.after Mcneill and Zibanejad go in mid-first range,there is not a lot of other centres with even decent size (Nermark is 6'1 187--maybe even bulkier by now) who willcomand interest for the rest of round one --thus Nermark's value probably should be early 20's as opposed to late 20's (22/23?) ... He willmove up on many charts if he has a good world U-18...and teams willnot overlook that face-off ability .

 

[bberry]

sub-par at best???? I disagree.


Yeah he would be top 5, if he wasnt shorter than my sister.


Ellis is a good skater he just isnt fast....solid on his skates. Murphy is extremely fast.


Yeah, it would be for the best though...hope to see a team have enought 'balls' to do it.


What scouts are you talking about here? Can you provide any basis for this argument, or are you still spewing 2 year old news from THN.

I can tell you right now, that an NHL gm felt like trading away picks 1-3 for 2010, and traded 3rds in both next year and the year after because he liked this draft class.

There is no Crosby or Ovechkin, but their could be Brad Richards, Eric Staal like players and more.

Dont like your comment at all, just shows me you havent done a ton of research on this draft IMO.

If you've watched Siemens play you would know the turnover to touches ratio is very very high. Astronomically high some games.

As far as this draft class, every class is hyped in it's year on boards like this. Funny how boards like this are the primary source of information for boards like this.

Think about the facts here. 1st rd picks are being tossed around like candy for role players. Were talking about the potential first overall pick not even cracking an NHL roster. Many scouts have said things like "never have seen a draft like this," and in the midst of conversations usually end up talking about the kids for the 2012 draft. Trust me folks, the talent in this draft is lower end and shallow.

If I'm picking 8ish-15ish I'm gambling on Grimaldi. If there was any year to take a chance on a tiny forward with all world ability it's this year.

 

[R S]

If you've watched Siemens play you would know the turnover to touches ratio is very very high. Astronomically high some games.

As far as this draft class, every class is hyped in it's year on boards like this. Funny how boards like this are the primary source of information for boards like this.

Think about the facts here. 1st rd picks are being tossed around like candy for role players. Were talking about the potential first overall pick not even cracking an NHL roster. Many scouts have said things like "never have seen a draft like this," and in the midst of conversations usually end up talking about the kids for the 2012 draft. Trust me folks, the talent in this draft is lower end and shallow.

If I'm picking 8ish-15ish I'm gambling on Grimaldi. If there was any year to take a chance on a tiny forward with all world ability it's this year.

I've seen Siemens play 50 times this year. 49 of those have been LIVE.

I will admit that the kid has flaws and that he isn't the best puckhandler, but you are going WAY over the top here in regards to his turnovers....

 

[arsmaster*]

If you've watched Siemens play you would know the turnover to touches ratio is very very high. Astronomically high some games.

NO live viewings, but have watched him play online and on TV for the last 2 years.

He's got similar upside to Erik Gudbranson IMO...he went 3rd last year (in a supposed deep draft because it had Taylor Hall)

As far as this draft class, every class is hyped in it's year on boards like this. Funny how boards like this are the primary source of information for boards like this.

I will agree with you on this point....there are a lot of guys who watch a ton of games that post on here.

Think about the facts here. 1st rd picks are being tossed around like candy for role players.

4 first rounders were moved....two by teams loading up (Philly and Boston and dont forget boston likely has a top 10...they moved their pick last year too). LA and Nashville as well. LA needed a goal scorer, fits their lineup well.....Nashville needed a player, and IMO public relations had a significant amount to do with that deal as well.

Its funny how one of the best PP QB's/puck movers from the back end in the league, a 6'4" 230lbs 30 goal scorer are considered role players. Fisher and Versteeg I'll give you them as role players, but you are off by miles on the first two.

Were talking about the potential first overall pick not even cracking an NHL roster. Many scouts have said things like "never have seen a draft like this," and in the midst of conversations usually end up talking about the kids for the 2012 draft. Trust me folks, the talent in this draft is lower end and shallow.

Who are you quoting here? Trust you? who are you? non-other than an HFboard poster that uses this board as a "primary source of information" would be my guess.

 

[bberry]

NO live viewings, but have watched him play online and on TV for the last 2 years.

He's got similar upside to Erik Gudbranson IMO...he went 3rd last year (in a supposed deep draft because it had Taylor Hall)


I will agree with you on this point....there are a lot of guys who watch a ton of games that post on here.


4 first rounders were moved....two by teams loading up (Philly and Boston and dont forget boston likely has a top 10...they moved their pick last year too). LA and Nashville as well. LA needed a goal scorer, fits their lineup well.....Nashville needed a player, and IMO public relations had a significant amount to do with that deal as well.

Its funny how one of the best PP QB's/puck movers from the back end in the league, a 6'4" 230lbs 30 goal scorer are considered role players. Fisher and Versteeg I'll give you them as role players, but you are off by miles on the first two.



Who are you quoting here? Trust you? who are you? non-other than an HFboard poster that uses this board as a "primary source of information" would be my guess.

In the Penner, Kaberle and St Louis/Col deal there was a lot more involved in the trade than just a 1 for 1. Leafs get a very very good prospect and conditional pick. Oilers get a good prospect and another pick. The Stl/Col deal is just to much to pick apart.

So in seeing 1st's going to a team with other substantial assets going the same way does that not tell you the 1st's are not worth as much?

The only 1 for 1's are Fisher for a 1st and Versteeg for a 1st. Role players.

If these boards were my "primary source" then I would be hyping this draft...

 

[leoleo3535]

In the Penner, Kaberle and St Louis/Col deal there was a lot more involved in the trade than just a 1 for 1. Leafs get a very very good prospect and conditional pick. Oilers get a good prospect and another pick. The Stl/Col deal is just to much to pick apart.

So in seeing 1st's going to a team with other substantial assets going the same way does that not tell you the 1st's are not worth as much?

The only 1 for 1's are Fisher for a 1st and Versteeg for a 1st. Role players.

If these boards were my "primary source" then I would be hyping this draft...If your not on rinknet then were in different realms

I use rinknet........and the value of it in this conversation is what?

 

[bberry]

My point being that if you work in the game that is where the truth lies. If the guys selecting the players in the draft aren't that excited then that is what I am going to take as truth.

There is no issue with disagreeing. I think this draft is weak. I have given my reasons. Other's can think it is strong. We won't truly know for 5 years at the least.

 

[leoleo3535]

My point being that if you work in the game that is where the truth lies. If the guys selecting the players in the draft aren't that excited then that is what I am going to take as truth.

There is no issue with disagreeing. I think this draft is weak. I have given my reasons. Other's can think it is strong. We won't truly know for 5 years at the least.

Sorry....mis read what you meant by "if you are not on rinknet then were in different realms."

Thought you were saying you were using rinknet and those that don't are wrong.....

my view- 1) I use rinknet and know of several others here that do as well 2) whether you do or don't use rinknet is besides the point in regards to this topic

 

[Tormentor]

FINALLY --it looks like they have hardly budged on JOACHIM NERMARK --29th in AUG --still 29th now ---this kid has been so productive for Sweden at International Tournaments that if he shines at the World U-18's--the ISS willbe embarrassed they only have him at #29

Last two international tournaments: 7gp 1g+2a=3p. Not that offensive production determines his draft value, but it must be noted that he has only scored 8 goals in 37 junior games. Therefore it's strange that you base your argument fairly strongly on his productivity.

 

[spikelechien]

Here is my 2 cents worth on the latest ISS Top 30:

First, the big risers:
1. Zibanejad, Mika - Up 13 to 14 (Me - 11; MacKenzie as of Jan-11 - 19) - Welcome to the “Z†train, everybody seems to be getting on board, me included. This guy seems like the real deal and looks better every time you see him - decent size @ 6’2 and seems to know how to use it. A good write-up on him at NHL.com by Mike Morreale - http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555223
2. Oleksiak, James - Up 6 to 19 (Me - 19; MacKenzie 23) - Look up, way up @ 6’7†242 lb. Is he a Chara/Myers or is he a Gill??? Either way, he is going to be an impact player in the NHL - this is a guy who could go even higher - the way Dylan McGrath went in the 2010 draft.
3. Bärtschi, Sven - Up 5 to 21 (Me - 17; MacKenzie 14) - This year’s Swiss “El Nino†in terms of draft success; other than his size (5’10†185 lb.) everything else would point to a yes. With his speed, shot and consistency in putting up the points, a mid-first round result is well within his grasp.
4. McNeill, Mark - Up 5 to 15 (Me - 15; MacKenzie - 22) - One of my personal favourites, I like what McNeil brings to a hockey club - a big centre with good hockey sense, who brings competiveness and physicality, good but not elite skills and can fight if called upon. I had him higher at one time but his lack of elite skills holds him back to a mid 1st round pick.
5. Huberdeau, Jonathan - Up 4 to 9 - (Me - 7; MacKenzie - 9) - As I predicted in last month’s ISS thread, ISS has now gone all in on Huberdeau. He seems to be good no matter where you see him - Super Series, Top Prospects , Regular season in the Q - he has the elite skills and competiveness to be successful in the Bigs.

Second, the big losers:
1. Bell, Myles - Down 7 to 25 - (Me - 52; MacKenzie - 56) - There is lots of controversy on this guy’s rating - do you want his offense and booming shot and believe his defense will come around - if so, late 1st is not unreasonable; if you are not so sure - the 2nd is likely where he will end up.
2. Jaskin, Dmitri - Down 5 to 24 - (Me - 22; MacKenzie 43) A guy I like who would be even higher I suspect if he played in North America. At 6’1 196 lb. he seems to look even bigger on the ice. Only a lack of elite skating is holding him back from an even higher rating. Maybe a good U18 will help his cause.

Third, the big differences from what I think the ratings S/B:
1. Nermark, Joachim - 37 spaces up from me - ISS 29; Me 66; MacKenzie >65. Hmm, the ISS rating for this guy is a puzzler for me. This pre-season sensation from the Ivan Hlinka tournament has not played close to expectations this year (26 pts in 37 games @ J20 and a measly 1 point in 12 games in the Elite League). The Swedish prospect guru, Anders Ostberg, has him 3rd round - sounds about right to me.
2. Jacobs, Colin - 35 spaces up from me - ISS 26; Me - 61; MacKenzie - 37. Other than his size, what has this prospect done to equate to the 1st round. I am willing to admit that I could be wrong but maybe someone who sees him a lot can tell me why.
3. Puempel, Matt - 18 spaces down from me - ISS 30; Me - 12; MacKenzie - 18. Although he is not flashy, his economy of motion and economy of movement in making and setting up scoring chances night after night on a very bad team make me believe this guy is the closest to a pure scorer in this year’s draft and I like goal scorers. He is out with an injury to the end of the year but I don’t think that will have a big effect on his chances.
4. Rask, Viktor - 17 spaces up from me - ISS 28; Me - 45; MacKenzie - 16. This is a guy like Nermark who entered the year very high in the ratings (ISS had him top 10 for 5 months) but has not lived up to expectations - he has fallen from the 1st of the year, for sure - how far, the U18’s will likely determine if I am closely to the mark or ISS.
5. Catenacci, Daniel - 14 spaces up from me - ISS 20; Me - 34; MacKenzie - 30. Like his skating and he is competitive but his lack of strength and size makes me wary of going as high as ISS.
6. Khokhlachev, Alexander - 13 spaces up from me - ISS 16; Me - 29; MacKenzie - 42) - Had a monster January and many say he is this year’s Burmistrov but in the games I have seen him, he has not been visible enough for me to want to him mid-1st. Plus at 5’10 172 lb,. a little more meat would be nice too,
7. Grimaldi, Rocco - 13 spaces up from me - ISS 18; Me - 31; MacKenzie - 31). The difference is simply this - if you are sure Grimaldi can take the results from his US NTP U18 season and translate them successfully (along with his 5’6 161 lb. frame) to the pros, an 18th ranking is appropriate; if not late 1st to early 2nd is more likely.

 

[Czechexpert]

you are usually pretty spot on with a lot of your views of players Czech, but I will have to disagree with you here. I simply see a different player then you with Biggs. I think the kid has a ton of hockey sense, usually makes the right plays, knows how to use his body to his advantage, and really doesnt take dumb penalties either.

there are always too many stat hounds on here that dont understand how the USNDP really works, and how stats arent that relevant for these kids either. Biggs is the best power forward in this draft, and by power forward I mean a true power forward (young Keith Tkachuk mold).

I am surprised that he got ranked as high as he did, but he has so much to like with his game and his ability that he could very well be a top 10 pick and rightfully so.

I dont know how well he can perform offensively in the NHL, and that would be a valid discussion, but the hockey sense really is a no issue with me when talking about Biggs imo.

I agree that he knows how to use his size/body to his advantage. However he has zero creativity, isn´t naturally instinctive around the net and his decision making with the puck is questionable in my eyes. But I can tell you that there are plenty of scouts who share your opinion and also others who would agree with my opinion.