Waived: Nestrasil

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Cyborg Yzerberg

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Nov 8, 2007
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True elite checking matchups rarely went to that line. Yes they were first over the boards for the PK in terms of Maltby and Draper. However, they didn't chase matchups as much with them. Bowman was fine with leaving them out there, but check the tape on those teams. Fedorov and Yzerman saw the heavy diet of top line players. The Gretzky, Sakic, Forsberg matchups were not being handled by the grind line, in part because you would basically be punting possession. A lot of what the grind line did well was their PK work and abusing the bottom six matchup they were given tilting the ice and gaining momentum.

The other thing about the grind line that was so great is that if they got stuck against the Gretzky's or whatever because of the other team getting priority in favorable match ups, they often times were able to handle their own. As far as bottom 6 checking lines go, obviously among the best in league history.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,977
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The other thing about the grind line that was so great is that if they got stuck against the Gretzky's or whatever because of the other team getting priority in favorable match ups, they often times were able to handle their own. As far as bottom 6 checking lines go, obviously among the best in league history.

I said it, but probably not that clearly. They were fine to stay out, honestly so would Glendening's line for the most part. However, in those situations the Grind Line didn't dictate play often and they did not chase matchups with them in this kind of fashion. It just functioned differently, but there is an inaccuracy in the idea that they were outright deployed on the top players of their time, they really weren't. They were great at creating momentum and driving people crazy. However, think back to those Avs series or who lined up on Modano, it was not the grind line, especially at home with last change.

They were one of if not the best "4th line" I have witnessed as a hockey fan though, no arguments there.
 

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
6,160
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You guys might not like the fact that Glen's line is used the way it is used.

Fact is it was our 1st line the other day that got picked apart (-3's) that lost the game.

Our 4th line wouldn't make that mistake.

Say what you will about how long they can "do this job". 1/4 into the season, and they are doing just fine. If Z gets to vs the 2nd line; Tatar against a 3rd line...If we score we win.

If the other team ices their top line, and has trouble scoring 1 goal.....
Then Glendenning is our top line center and I am fine with that.

I honestly dont care. I want the team to win. Babcock has a young team, and until our top two lines prove more defensively responsible... he will use the 4th line to gain advantages.

Either you think Babcock is a good coach or a crappy one for this choice... But he is doing it on purpose with a distinct decision that will win us games... I guess we will see.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,273
5,266
You guys might not like the fact that Glen's line is used the way it is used.

Fact is it was our 1st line the other day that got picked apart (-3's) that lost the game.

Our 4th line wouldn't make that mistake.

Say what you will about how long they can "do this job". 1/4 into the season, and they are doing just fine. If Z gets to vs the 2nd line; Tatar against a 3rd line...If we score we win.

If the other team ices their top line, and has trouble scoring 1 goal.....
Then Glendenning is our top line center and I am fine with that.

I honestly dont care. I want the team to win. Babcock has a young team, and until our top two lines prove more defensively responsible... he will use the 4th line to gain advantages.

Either you think Babcock is a good coach or a crappy one for this choice... But he is doing it on purpose with a distinct decision that will win us games... I guess we will see.

I agree with the sentiment. If our 4th line never scores another goal again, but they eat up minutes of Stamkos/Ovechkin/Crosby/etc and consistently keep them off the scoreboard, then I'm going to love it. They should stay that way as long as they can keep it up. Leave the scoring up to the other lines. They should have an easier time of it. Especially if Mr. $5M ever gets back into shape.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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What is the big deal, here? What did we lose?
What we lost: Next to nothing.
What we kept: Nothing.

Any positive number, no matter how small, is bigger than zero. It is my opinion that both Dan Cleary and Steven Weiss hold zero value. Therefore, the prospect held more value, even if a miniscule one. If nothing else, he represents a smaller cap number for flexibility in future acquisitions.
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
26,397
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What we lost: Next to nothing.
What we kept: Nothing.

Any positive number, no matter how small, is bigger than zero. It is my opinion that both Dan Cleary and Steven Weiss hold zero value. Therefore, the prospect held more value, even if a miniscule one. If nothing else, he represents a smaller cap number for flexibility in future acquisitions.

You realize we'd have ended up with money remaining on the cap by waiving either Weiss or Cleary, right?
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
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You realize we'd have ended up with money remaining on the cap by waiving either Weiss or Cleary, right?

Yeah, people can clamor for Weiss or Cleary to have been waived, but neither make sense. The only other option was Jurco.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,151
2,369
Philadelphia
You guys might not like the fact that Glen's line is used the way it is used.

Fact is it was our 1st line the other day that got picked apart (-3's) that lost the game.

Our 4th line wouldn't make that mistake.

Say what you will about how long they can "do this job". 1/4 into the season, and they are doing just fine. If Z gets to vs the 2nd line; Tatar against a 3rd line...If we score we win.

If the other team ices their top line, and has trouble scoring 1 goal.....
Then Glendenning is our top line center and I am fine with that.

I honestly dont care. I want the team to win. Babcock has a young team, and until our top two lines prove more defensively responsible... he will use the 4th line to gain advantages.

Either you think Babcock is a good coach or a crappy one for this choice... But he is doing it on purpose with a distinct decision that will win us games... I guess we will see.

4th line has been picked apart plenty of times, Boston seems to always pick the Glendening line apart.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,962
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You realize we'd have ended up with money remaining on the cap by waiving either Weiss or Cleary, right?

For this year, yes, but I'd be perfectly willing to cut both today & save at least the next few years of Weiss' salary.

By the time all the wastes of a roster spot are gone, Datsyuk & Zetterberg will be playing shuffleboard with an AARP discount, & the franchise will have nothing to show for it.
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
26,397
14,321
For this year, yes, but I'd be perfectly willing to cut both today & save at least the next few years of Weiss' salary.

By the time all the wastes of a roster spot are gone, Datsyuk & Zetterberg will be playing shuffleboard with an AARP discount, & the franchise will have nothing to show for it.

And you realize that cutting Weiss's salary for the next few years requires a buyout, and you can't do buyouts this time of year, correct?
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,962
8,713
And you realize that cutting Weiss's salary for the next few years requires a buyout, and you can't do buyouts this time of year, correct?

Fantastic. I'm wrong about the financials.

But the reason I don't watch this team anymore is that their GM can't make up his mind, between playing some of the kids, and keeping washed-up has beens (or never wases). Guys like Stephen Weiss and Dan Cleary PREVENT teams from winning Cups, because their value doesn't come anywhere near their cost.

I hated the Weiss signing the moment it was made, and I think we all felt the same way about bringing Cleary back. I'll take a dirt-cheap prospect with 0.1% chance of panning out over bloated contracts attached to mediocre (and that's being generous) performance any day of the week.

But it doesn't matter; the Wings are apparently stuck with these guys, and the twilight of the Eurotwins' careers will continue to be wasted with inconsistent regular seasons and early playoff exits. So enjoy the mediocrity, and I'll continue to root against them until their leadership strings some good decisions together.
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
13,239
8,435
Fantastic. I'm wrong about the financials.

But the reason I don't watch this team anymore is that their GM can't make up his mind, between playing some of the kids, and keeping washed-up has beens (or never wases). Guys like Stephen Weiss and Dan Cleary PREVENT teams from winning Cups, because their value doesn't come anywhere near their cost.

I hated the Weiss signing the moment it was made, and I think we all felt the same way about bringing Cleary back. I'll take a dirt-cheap prospect with 0.1% chance of panning out over bloated contracts attached to mediocre (and that's being generous) performance any day of the week.

But it doesn't matter; the Wings are apparently stuck with these guys, and the twilight of the Eurotwins' careers will continue to be wasted with inconsistent regular seasons and early playoff exits. So enjoy the mediocrity, and I'll continue to root against them until their leadership strings some good decisions together.

What a miserable-sounding way to go about your fandom :(
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,119
1,219
Norway
True elite checking matchups rarely went to that line. Yes they were first over the boards for the PK in terms of Maltby and Draper. However, they didn't chase matchups as much with them. Bowman was fine with leaving them out there, but check the tape on those teams. Fedorov and Yzerman saw the heavy diet of top line players. The Gretzky, Sakic, Forsberg matchups were not being handled by the grind line, in part because you would basically be punting possession. A lot of what the grind line did well was their PK work and abusing the bottom six matchup they were given tilting the ice and gaining momentum.

In '02 Yzerman was injured and if I remember right we could not go Yzerman and Fedorov vs Sakic and Forsberg so Bowman went with the grind line vs The Sakic line. The grind line was well known and recognised around the league. I remember how Thorne and the other annonser (help me out with his name) went commenting and laughing how the grind line kept the puck in the offensive zone and the Sakic line did not get a chance to touch the puck.
They simply drove other top lines and coaches crazy.
The same might do our 4th line now.
It gives Babcock and gave Bowman the opportunity to put his top line vs the other teams' weaker lines. Bowman had better defence and better goaltending at his disposal though (in '02).
4th line has been picked apart plenty of times, Boston seems to always pick the Glendening line apart.
Like how many games?
I think we have played 2 games vs them, we won one and lost one in OT. correct?
Last season we went 3-1 vs Bruins.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,026
11,719
Fantastic. I'm wrong about the financials.

But the reason I don't watch this team anymore is that their GM can't make up his mind, between playing some of the kids, and keeping washed-up has beens (or never wases). Guys like Stephen Weiss and Dan Cleary PREVENT teams from winning Cups, because their value doesn't come anywhere near their cost.

I hated the Weiss signing the moment it was made, and I think we all felt the same way about bringing Cleary back. I'll take a dirt-cheap prospect with 0.1% chance of panning out over bloated contracts attached to mediocre (and that's being generous) performance any day of the week.

But it doesn't matter; the Wings are apparently stuck with these guys, and the twilight of the Eurotwins' careers will continue to be wasted with inconsistent regular seasons and early playoff exits. So enjoy the mediocrity, and I'll continue to root against them until their leadership strings some good decisions together.

This seems terribly misguided considering Cleary has been in and out of the lineup due to being expendable and the kids are getting tons of playing time.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
Fantastic. I'm wrong about the financials.

But the reason I don't watch this team anymore is that their GM can't make up his mind, between playing some of the kids, and keeping washed-up has beens (or never wases). Guys like Stephen Weiss and Dan Cleary PREVENT teams from winning Cups, because their value doesn't come anywhere near their cost.

I hated the Weiss signing the moment it was made, and I think we all felt the same way about bringing Cleary back. I'll take a dirt-cheap prospect with 0.1% chance of panning out over bloated contracts attached to mediocre (and that's being generous) performance any day of the week.


But it doesn't matter; the Wings are apparently stuck with these guys, and the twilight of the Eurotwins' careers will continue to be wasted with inconsistent regular seasons and early playoff exits. So enjoy the mediocrity, and I'll continue to root against them until their leadership strings some good decisions together.

This is pure insanity.

Either you're a fan and you enjoy what good there is on your team or you're not.

To root against the Wings right now, you're not just rooting against Weiss or Cleary or anyone else you deem getting paid too much for mediocre performance. You're rooting against Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar and Danny Dekeyser, young players who have made watching the team a good deal more exciting than it has been for quite a while.

Edit: And I don't necessarily mean it in a Pollyanna way. If the Wings make a god awful move, then by all means harpoon it. The 2012 FA period was a dumpster fire and set this team back a couple years and around ten million dollars. Losing Filppula and Hudler for nothing was not good asset management. But to say "I'm rooting against this team until they make good moves" is the same as saying "I'm always going to root against this team unless they win the Stanley Cup."
 
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Invictus12

Registered User
Aug 1, 2010
3,722
208
New York
4th line has been picked apart plenty of times, Boston seems to always pick the Glendening line apart.

Actually, our 4th line has been the most consistent so far. They don't score goals but, they do a hell of a job shutting opposing top line. If they get scored on occasionally, again, it because they're playing against the best!
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,962
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This is pure insanity.

But to say "I'm rooting against this team until they make good moves" is the same as saying "I'm always going to root against this team unless they win the Stanley Cup."
Not quite.

I have no delusions that any team should or could win it all every year. Not even remotely possible.

But I also think the notion of, "Just make the playoffs and anything can happen" is a lot more nonsense than good sense. A Cinderella Finals run is the rare exception, not the rule, and even those exceptions are almost always followed by a prompt return to irrelevance.

Detroit had a historic period of success, and I don't expect that to be duplicated. But I do expect them to eventually rebuild into a year-in, year-out legit contender. Not a, "Hooray! We made the playoffs!" upstart. A franchise where anything less than the Conference Finals is a disappointment.

To put it another way, you're either elite, boldly rebuilding to become elite, or a waste of my time. And since I deem their current approach to not match either of the first two categories, I consider them a waste of time, and root against them until they sufficiently reload or rebuild.

Am I harsh? Extremely. But I still don't see this roster getting past the second round, and until their success improves enough to consistently prove me wrong, I'm not wasting my time, let alone money, in supporting a sub-standard product.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,809
4,664
Cleveland
Yeah, people can clamor for Weiss or Cleary to have been waived, but neither make sense. The only other option was Jurco.

well, it looks like Jurco stands a good chance of ending up in the pressbox anyway.
Chuck Pleiness Tweet said:
Tomas Jurco could be the odd man out Wednesday against Philadelphia if Datsyuk can play.

If they're going to sit Jurco in the stands most nights, better to have sent him to GR and let Nestrasil keep those seats warm.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
I'd prefer they sit Joker and have Jurco get some run on that 4th line. More speed and physicality and he can work on his defensive game.
 
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