Confirmed with Link: Nemeth Signed - 1 yr @ 2.5

[Foppa2118]

Part of what I argued on the Cole signing was it would impact Nemeth here and the Avs would potentially be pushing a decent player out.

Nemeth was on his way out regardless. He's a good depth D, but he's not the level of player teams buy up UFA years for.

 

[arun]

1 year is fine at 2.5. I don't think we extend him after the upcoming season, good bandaid until Makar, Timmins, Meloche are ready

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Nemeth was on his way out regardless. He's a good depth D, but he's not the level of player teams buy up UFA years for.

I disagree with that assessment. We just paid 4 mill for a similar level player who is older. You should lock up any decent player if you can for a reasonable price and then figure out trading him later.

Again though, the shoulders must have been a major concern

 

[Foppa2118]

I disagree with that assessment. We just paid 4 mill for a similar level player who is older. You should lock up any decent player if you can for a reasonable price and then figure out trading him later.

Again though, the shoulders must have been a major concern

Cole is overpaid for sure, but he's better than Nemeth in a similar role, and much more experienced.

Nemeth is a good depth D, but he's 26, and was never a full time NHLer until last year. He's just not the type of player teams keep around for multiple years, especially his UFA years.

If they agreed to one year $2.5M, what do you guys think they were looking for on a long term deal? That's why he wasn't going to stick around. Anyone who doesn't like the $2.5M number, would have like the long term number even less.

 

[Pokecheque]

He is definitely above Barberio, which is why he is paid much more even as a RFA. That is not up for debate.

Its not about taking a step back or not. Its about always making the efficient, logical, concious, decisions for the continous improvement of your roster. If nemeth is signed long term, he likely wont drop off at his age. He gets traded for assets that could only help the team if Makar and Timmins take over. He is a hedge if Cole plays badly or drops off.

Now maybe his shoulders are truly that bad and its a long term risk. In that case i take it all back.

Statistically speaking Barberio is better in every regard, one big reason he didn't cash in was the fact that he missed a significant portion of the season due to injury. I'm not that big on Barberio either but if it's a question between him and Nemeth, I pick Barbs. It'll be interesting to see how Bednar handles this, I suppose it's a good problem to have that I don't have a problem with either of the potential 7th d-men seeing regular time, when in previous years that would've been a really bad thing.

 

[McMetal]

That's way too much for what he brings, but at least we're not committed to him long term.

 

[The Kingslayer]

1 yr at that price is fine.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Thankfully this is only one year. Don't care much for what he brings an he should be well down the depth charts by the end of the year.

 

[flyfysher]

I'd rather have Nemeth than Holden, Beauchemin, Golobeauf, etc. Nemeth was serviceable and integral to giving the Avs a passable NHL D last season. Still, a one year term is smart even if the Avs overpaid by about $400-$500K. The overpayment doesn't matter given the cap space.

 

[21]

They'll have Makar and Timmins both probably on the team next year, and they signed Barberio for 2 years, and Cole for 3 years. They may not have room for Nemeth after this year.

Nemeth will have a lot to prove this season because of the upcoming really strong competition among dmen in Colorado, he will be under pressure, that's for sure. He took a big step in his career last season but he will need to take another one this season.

 

[21]

Cole is overpaid for sure, but he's better than Nemeth in a similar role, and much more experienced.

Nemeth is still developing but I doubt Cole is, this is one major difference among the two. Nemeth had rough years in Dallas mostly because of injuries, including the really serious freak injury which could have lead to retirement (the skate cutting his arm/wrist) and it halted his career. The freak injury came at a time when Nemeth was establishing himself in Stars (22 years old) and playing very well "Nemeth out a good period of time with cut". WJC gold at 2012, Calder Cup trophy with Texas 2013/2014 and then the freak injury occured.

Now the shoulder(s) is a question mark... yes, but the $2.5 million contract is hopefully a proof the situation is under control (otherwise the signing is stupid).

 

[henchman21]

I see a lot of 2.5m doesn’t matter because of cap space... it matters because it just set a comparable contract the rest of the league can use in arbitration. It won’t hurt the Avs now, but 2-3-4 years down the road it could have an impact.

 

[Freudian]

I see a lot of 2.5m doesn’t matter because of cap space... it matters because it just set a comparable contract the rest of the league can use in arbitration. It won’t hurt the Avs now, but 2-3-4 years down the road it could have an impact.

Chances are there will be a handful excessive RFA contracts teams can use at that point, especially with how teams seem to want long term second contracts for their players these days.

 

[henchman21]

Chances are there will be a handful excessive RFA contracts teams can use at that point, especially with how teams seem to want long term second contracts for their players these days.

There is a difference between wanting a player long-term and having to adhere to this comparable on a useful player, but one you don't really want around long-term. A player exactly like Nemeth here. He's useful and can play some useful roles on the team, but you don't want to commit to him long-term... now that bar is set. It creates a situation where useful players might not be re-signed or even qualified because of arbitration. By no means is the sky falling from this, it is just an issue with the arbitration system and these fringe sort of players that got elevated.

I also know it is easy to say the Avs won't have this sort of player coming up and won't have to deal with this here soon... the Avs didn't have Nemeth at this point in time last year either. Roster changes happen and these players show up in organizations all the time.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't think Nemeth's deal has really altered the market that much, if at all.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

There is a difference between wanting a player long-term and having to adhere to this comparable on a useful player, but one you don't really want around long-term. A player exactly like Nemeth here. He's useful and can play some useful roles on the team, but you don't want to commit to him long-term... now that bar is set. It creates a situation where useful players might not be re-signed or even qualified because of arbitration. By no means is the sky falling from this, it is just an issue with the arbitration system and these fringe sort of players that got elevated.

I also know it is easy to say the Avs won't have this sort of player coming up and won't have to deal with this here soon... the Avs didn't have Nemeth at this point in time last year either. Roster changes happen and these players show up in organizations all the time.

Not in the Avalanche's organization. Have you forgotten how long it has taken for a half-way decent d-corp to be established? Bodnarchuk, Gelinas, Holden, Hunwick, Goloubef, Guenin, Lindholm, Redmond. That is the kinda of defense the AVs have used for way too long. Having Nemeth at 2.5M for his last RFA year is not a bad move for depth or precedence. If you want depth, pay for it. He's a rock solid third pairing d-man who can play up a pairing when injuries hit.

This next point/comment is definitely not directed at you henchy just more in general at the board....but I do believe that sometimes folks on this board can become bigger fans of the front office than the team. Reading through a lot of the threads here I feel like some people can get caught up more in having every single player signed to a great contract rather than having the best possible team on the ice. Yes, the front office shouldn't be stupid with contracts but sometimes you do have to pay a bit more than you'd want to get kind of depth you want.

I do believe Makar and Timmins will make the transition to the NHL within the next year or two and at that time Nemeth will most likely become expendable. But I sure do like the idea of having him around until then. Depth, especially good depth at D is never a problem.

 

[henchman21]

Not in the Avalanche's organization. Have you forgotten how long it has taken for a half-way decent d-corp to be established? Bodnarchuk, Gelinas, Holden, Hunwick, Goloubef, Guenin, Lindholm, Redmond. That is the kinda of defense the AVs have used for way too long. Having Nemeth at 2.5M for his last RFA year is not a bad move for depth or precedence. If you want depth, pay for it. He's a rock solid third pairing d-man who can play up a pairing when injuries hit.

This next point/comment is definitely not directed at you henchy just more in general at the board....but I do believe that sometimes folks on this board can become bigger fans of the front office than the team. Reading through a lot of the threads here I feel like some people can get caught up more in having every single player signed to a great contract rather than having the best possible team on the ice. Yes, the front office shouldn't be stupid with contracts but sometimes you do have to pay a bit more than you'd want to get kind of depth you want.

I do believe Makar and Timmins will make the transition to the NHL within the next year or two and at that time Nemeth will most likely become expendable. But I sure do like the idea of having him around until then. Depth, especially good depth at D is never a problem.

My point is the overall changes that happen in organizations cause these players to flow through with regularity. Look at how many defensemen have filtered through on your list. Say one performs well for the season they are here, and now they have a Nemeth comparable. You've now brought that level up to 2.5... it isn't a huge difference, but 500-600k more than should be spent on that type of defensemen. People complained up and down about the Holden contract, but that was the exact right dollar amount for these types of players. The problem there was the depth wouldn't allow Holden to be pushed down and coaches fall in love with the guy.

To me, Nemeth just elevated the #5D that can play up in spurts market by a decent amount. Alex Petrovic is a similar player... and has been around the 1.9 mark on his last two 1 year deals. Sustr was 1.95 last year in Tampa. McNabb was at 1.7 the past two seasons. It isn't a huge deal, but I see a 500-600k bump with this.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Yet superstar players have gone from 8M to 12M in the last few years. That's a 50% increase. Bumping a good #5D from 1.9M to 2.5M is only like 31.6% increase. Inflation happens. The cap is going up. Breathe in, breathe out, move on. Lots of worse things out there to be worried about....Like not having any defensive depth....which the AVs have been struggling with for over a decade.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Not in the Avalanche's organization. Have you forgotten how long it has taken for a half-way decent d-corp to be established? Bodnarchuk, Gelinas, Holden, Hunwick, Goloubef, Guenin, Lindholm, Redmond. That is the kinda of defense the AVs have used for way too long. Having Nemeth at 2.5M for his last RFA year is not a bad move for depth or precedence. If you want depth, pay for it. He's a rock solid third pairing d-man who can play up a pairing when injuries hit.

This next point/comment is definitely not directed at you henchy just more in general at the board....but I do believe that sometimes folks on this board can become bigger fans of the front office than the team. Reading through a lot of the threads here I feel like some people can get caught up more in having every single player signed to a great contract rather than having the best possible team on the ice. Yes, the front office shouldn't be stupid with contracts but sometimes you do have to pay a bit more than you'd want to get kind of depth you want.

I do believe Makar and Timmins will make the transition to the NHL within the next year or two and at that time Nemeth will most likely become expendable. But I sure do like the idea of having him around until then. Depth, especially good depth at D is never a problem.

Great post. Our front office is not perfect, and if they really believe that Nemeth is expendable just because of our prospects, its frankly just arrogant and foolish!

Now if his shoulders are that bad or did not want to sign a multiyear deal at a fair <4 mill offer, then i am totally with our front office.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Interested to to think that:
Girard, Cole, Zadorov, Barrie, Johnson are the locks in defense, but one of Barberio or Nemeth will have to miss out! That's if Timmins or Makar aren't in the team yet!

One thinks Barberio would ride the pine, which is a little disappointing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont think it was just Nemeths new deal that will cause those #5 level Dmen to get more going forward though. I think the precedent for these guys getting raises was set already.


TVR getting $2.3M in his last RFA year earlier this summer. Bet Hutton getting $2.8M last summer.


I think the precedant for these #5 Dmen that can play up getting raises was being established before Nemeth got his $2.5M deal. It's just a part of the rising cap. Most of the money in the rising cap goes to the top players in the game but it trickles down to the other guys in the league with value as well and I think we're just seeing an example of that here.



Although that said I dont like the $2.5M for Nemeth more because I dont think he actually is a #5 who can step up. I think he struggled a lot when he had to step into bigger roles last year and hell I didn't even like him as our #5 outside of a month long stretch or so early in the year.


To me he's a #6 on a borderline team but if you're a team trying to contend for a cup you dont even want him in your Top 6. And for that kind of Dman $2.5M is too much. $1.5M would have been much better.


Hopefully he proves me wrong and can take his game up a notch next year but at his age and with his skill set I dont see that happening, I'd actually wager on regression from him next season.

 

[Sea Eagles]

I dont think it was just Nemeths new deal that will cause those #5 level Dmen to get more going forward though. I think the precedent for these guys getting raises was set already.


TVR getting $2.3M in his last RFA year earlier this summer. Bet Hutton getting $2.8M last summer.


I think the precedant for these #5 Dmen that can play up getting raises was being established before Nemeth got his $2.5M deal. It's just a part of the rising cap. Most of the money in the rising cap goes to the top players in the game but it trickles down to the other guys in the league with value as well and I think we're just seeing an example of that here.



Although that said I dont like the $2.5M for Nemeth more because I dont think he actually is a #5 who can step up. I think he struggled a lot when he had to step into bigger roles last year and hell I didn't even like him as our #5 outside of a month long stretch or so early in the year.


To me he's a #6 on a borderline team but if you're a team trying to contend for a cup you dont even want him in your Top 6. And for that kind of Dman $2.5M is too much. $1.5M would have been much better.


Hopefully he proves me wrong and can take his game up a notch next year but at his age and with his skill set I dont see that happening, I'd actually wager on regression from him next season.

People don't like the fact that he doesn't score points, but you can't deny how sound, and how much poise he has defensively.

You just can't ignore the fact he was one of the top plus/minus players in the league.

We have both Girard and Barrie in the team who play in a more extroverted way, so having both a Cole / Nemeth to balance that is outstanding.

Nemeth is still relatively young. He is often playing or returning from injury. Love to see him eek out 82 games.

I think our defense is about to earn a WHOLE lot of respect from both our fans, but also the rest of the NHL world.

Hasn't looked this solid as far as I can remember.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think Nemeth's deal has really altered the market that much, if at all.

Exactly. A one year deal for a non flashy defender is gonna have very little, if any impact on the market.

It was all the other contracts that have been signed recently that had an impact on Nemeth's negotiations.

To me, Nemeth just elevated the #5D that can play up in spurts market by a decent amount. Alex Petrovic is a similar player... and has been around the 1.9 mark on his last two 1 year deals. Sustr was 1.95 last year in Tampa. McNabb was at 1.7 the past two seasons. It isn't a huge deal, but I see a 500-600k bump with this.

Nemeth had a more prominent role on his team than all of them.

TOI

Nemeth - 19:51 - 3rd among D
McNabb - 18:49 - 4th among D two years ago when he signed for $1.7M
Sustr - 17:35 - 5th among D a year ago when he signed for $1.95M
Petrovic - 14:39 - 6th among D

 

[Tommy Shelby]

This deal smells strongly of "he won't be offered another contract" to me.

 

[forsbergavs32]

This deal smells strongly of "he won't be offered another contract" to me.

Pretty much this, looks like a stopgap contract to me. Timmins could end up winning a spot this year if he has another camp like last year, Makar could be around as early as the 19-20 season so there probably won't be room for Nemeth after this year anyway.