Prospect Info: Necas or Zykov...who is better?

Anton Dubinchuk

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I don't think Holmstrom is that unique though, he's just the prototype for that kind of player because he was s sh!t starter on a "dynasty", face of the League franchise for much of his career. Hornqvist and Wilson (when he's not trying to earn himself attempted murder charges) also play that kind of game. But I do think pointing out the problem with, "He can be our Holmstrom" works, because those kind of players ARE rare.

Yeah, good point, I’d forgotten that Hornqvist is a good comp and a more modern comparison for Zykov’s development curve as well.
 

NotOpie

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I guess, but "in terms of bringing an element that we need", take him out of the lineup and bump up other centers one rung, then revisit how much we miss Necas.

Then do the same for Zykov.

So I'd rather have Zykov w/Aho and TT that Ferland, albeit based solely on the limited sample size of both playing on that line. I want Zykov in a scoring role and I think he plays well, interestingly enough with Necas.

And to play the devil's advocate, I'd be perfectly fine if Wallmark were bumped to the 3rd line role. He wins faceoffs, is an excellent playmaker, and has an underrated shot. So I don't think your comparison holds much water.
 

geehaad

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And to play the devil's advocate, I'd be perfectly fine if Wallmark were bumped to the 3rd line role. He wins faceoffs, is an excellent playmaker, and has an underrated shot. So I don't think your comparison holds much water.
Nothing wrong with that opinion, though I think it will go the way of arguments for Chris Terry. ;) And that's not to Zykov's detriment, but rather to Necas' favor.

But. We shall see...
 

Ole Gil

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I don't think Holmstrom is that unique though, he's just the prototype for that kind of player because he was s sh!t starter on a "dynasty", face of the League franchise for much of his career. Hornqvist and Wilson (when he's not trying to earn himself attempted murder charges) also play that kind of game. But I do think pointing out the problem with, "He can be our Holmstrom" works, because those kind of players ARE rare.

I don't think Hornqvist works, for the reasons that Vagrant said. Zykov is coming in around 120ish shots per season. Hornqvist is putting up 220-275. Guys like Leclair or Hornqvist are way more multi-dimensional. Zykov does part of what made them successful in terms of crease play, but that's it.

Vagrants post was worrying that Zykovs shot totals were too low to predict decent production. I'm saying his chances come from such an unbalanced way (net front with heavy PP #s) that 120 shots from Zykov and 120 shots from, say, Hornqvist are not comparable.

Ideally, we'd have Zykov's shot chart, and match it up with league averages from those locations and situations, and see what an expected shooting % would be. But since that's not available, we're going with someone who probably has a similar shot chart, and that guy is Holmstrom.

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Relating this to the topic of the thread, I think Necas will be the better player, because there's a fairly low ceiling for Zykov on scoring in such a one-dimensional way. As people also said, even playing with 4 hall of famers, Holmstrom was only scoring 20g because relying solely on that style of play, you just can't generate enough shots on goal. Tomas would shoot 20% from the ice, but only score 20, because he was putting up around 100 shots a season.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Because the season starts Thursday and we still haven’t established who we’re going to **** on when things go bad.

We haven't? I thought that was already defined.


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tarheelhockey

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I guess, but "in terms of bringing an element that we need", take him out of the lineup and bump up other centers one rung, then revisit how much we miss Necas.

Then do the same for Zykov.

TBH I don’t think Necas brings a lot more right now than a healthy Rask. If he does, it’s marginal. We all hope the difference will be huge as early as this season, but it’s not yet. To the extent that we really need him in the lineup, it’s because Rask is hurt and there’s a big dropoff to get down to Wallmark/Roy.

Zykov, by all indications this summer, completely changes our look on the PP. He does a thing nobody else can do for us right now, and that thing is pretty closely correlated with PP success which is in turn correlated with winning. We could get by without him, since Foegele looks ready and Kuokkanen could be buried on the 4th line, but that wouldn’t be at all ideal for us trying to win games right now.

Anyway, that’s just my outlook on them. Necas is the more elite prospect without any question whatsoever, but he still looks like a very young kid trying to find his role here.
 

geehaad

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TBH I don’t think Necas brings a lot more right now than a healthy Rask. If he does, it’s marginal. We all hope the difference will be huge as early as this season, but it’s not yet. To the extent that we really need him in the lineup, it’s because Rask is hurt and there’s a big dropoff to get down to Wallmark/Roy.
Yeah, that's where I was going with that..."big dropoff" to the next C, whereas it's not such a big dropoff from Zykov to the next wing.

Zykov's net-front presence factor is one that raises his value as a winger, but the next-best option at wing brings things that Zykov doesn't...i.e. Foegele=speed, harrassment, Ferland=toughness, shot, McGinn=(I'm not sure, tbh). So, while we can say Zykov brings something different, he also lacks in many other ways, balancing his net effect to be mostly equal to the other wingers...something that is not true from Necas down to Wallmark.
 

The Faulker 27

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Zykov has one of the best releases on the team, IMO. Being a net-front presence is key to his game, but without that lethal shot he wouldn't score so often doing it. Disclaimer: I'm also factoring in goals I've seen him score with the checkers, but we've seen goals just like his AHL highlight reel at the NHL level.
 

emptyNedder

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Zykov has one of the best releases on the team, IMO. Being a net-front presence is key to his game, but without that lethal shot he wouldn't score so often doing it. Disclaimer: I'm also factoring in goals I've seen him score with the checkers, but we've seen goals just like his AHL highlight reel at the NHL level.

I will keep repeating he was 4 for 5 in shootouts the past two seasons in Charlotte. Shootouts are not net front and bang it in. Zykov likely has a better shot than most of the players being mentioned.
 

NotOpie

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Nothing wrong with that opinion, though I think it will go the way of arguments for Chris Terry. ;) And that's not to Zykov's detriment, but rather to Necas' favor.

But. We shall see...

Well G - I certainly hope so as my "Chris Terry will put up 40" has lived in infamy :sarcasm:.

However, I was responding to the scenario that was presented. Today, right now, it is not a significant drop off between Wallmark and Necas as a 3C. Wallmark is better defensively, is comparable to better at the dot, is an equivalent playmaker, and has a slightly better shot. That said, if 10 or 20 games from now, I'm still saying Wallmark is a solid replacement for Necas, I'll be disappointed in Necas....but right now, other than skating, Wallmark slides into the 3C position with little noticeable drop off....and believe me, I don't want that to be the case.

As far as Zykov is concerned, I've been on his band wagon for a while and I think he gets sold short by some folks. However, with Ferland and Foegele in the mix, I think he can be more readily replaced...not easily, mind you, just readily. I'd point to the powerplay against Nashville where Ferland to the Zykov role. He just wasn't nearly as effective. Now perhaps it was a function of his first game back and all, but it was still less than stellar.

Vagrants post was worrying that Zykovs shot totals were too low to predict decent production. I'm saying his chances come from such an unbalanced way (net front with heavy PP #s) that 120 shots from Zykov and 120 shots from, say, Hornqvist are not comparable.

Tiny sample size, but Zykov put up 3 goals on 10 shots....do the math.

We haven't? I thought that was already defined.


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It's gonna be really hard to shit all over PDG up there in the press box.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Well G - I certainly hope so as my "Chris Terry will put up 40" has lived in infamy :sarcasm:.

However, I was responding to the scenario that was presented. Today, right now, it is not a significant drop off between Wallmark and Necas as a 3C. Wallmark is better defensively, is comparable to better at the dot, is an equivalent playmaker, and has a slightly better shot. That said, if 10 or 20 games from now, I'm still saying Wallmark is a solid replacement for Necas, I'll be disappointed in Necas....but right now, other than skating, Wallmark slides into the 3C position with little noticeable drop off....and believe me, I don't want that to be the case.

Not sure I agree with the bolded, particularly the "better shot". They are different sort of playmakers. Wallmark slows things down, partly because he isn't very fast to begin with. Necas makes plays at a high rate of speed that Wallmark simply can't. The little I've seen of Necas so far, I think is shot is already superior.

It's gonna be really hard to **** all over PDG up there in the press box.

Nah, you know it and I know it. As soon as 1 rookie struggles or someone gets injured, PDG will be in the line-up. It will be before the 10 game mark, book it.
 

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