Ncaa Vs Chl

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stockwizard*

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Steve Latin said:
In fact, he looks rather frail and weak. If he goes against that higher level of competition prematurely, it's very likely that he could suffer a terrible injury. Another possibility is that he might get easily rattled by much stronger opponents and lose a lot of his confidence. Any of these scenarios could affect his draft stock.
Yeah, Crosby is real frail and weak! :dunno:
It is dumb to even suggest Crosby should go play in Europe. He is already guaranteed to go #1 in the draft and that is the only think he cares about.
Lemieux dominated the Q in his second season and he stayed for another year. I don't think that hurt his development.
 

LaLaLaprise

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Feb 28, 2002
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S L

You lost all cred when you called Crosby weak.

Also players dont go to Europe to develop. What good would playing in a low contact league on big ice. How would that help develop you for the NHL?
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Corsby is not weak, his lower body strength is off the charts for his age. I seen 6`3 and 6`4 defensmen in the Q try to push him off the puck and have no success. In Midget AAA he threw guys well bigger then him around, he was only 13 or 14 at the time.
 

Steve Latin*

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stockwizard said:
Yeah, Crosby is real frail and weak! :dunno:
It is dumb to even suggest Crosby should go play in Europe. He is already guaranteed to go #1 in the draft and that is the only think he cares about.
Lemieux dominated the Q in his second season and he stayed for another year. I don't think that hurt his development.

I've seen Crosby's frame. He has really small bones. I'm quite concerned that his lack of size will make him a perimeter player for his entire career, similar to Alexander Daigle. Keep in mind that Lemieux was viewed as having great NHL size, so competing at a level where all the defenders are far larger than him wasn't an issue.

I still think that he'll go number one overall, but it may take him a longer time to have an impact on his team. Considering that rookie contracts are almost all bonus-based, Crosby might end up costing himself money by covering up his weaknesses playing in a boy's league. In fact, even in that league Crosby couldn't handle the continuous clutching, grabbing, and hooking that offensive stars have to deal with nearly every night -- his coach threatened to sit him unless the league intervened.


S L
 

stockwizard*

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Steve Latin said:
I've seen Crosby's frame. He has really small bones. I'm quite concerned that his lack of size will make him a perimeter player for his entire career, similar to Alexander Daigle. Keep in mind that Lemieux was viewed as having great NHL size, so have to compete at a level where all the defenders are far larger than him wasn't an issue.

I still think that he'll go number one overall, but it may take him a longer time to have an impact on his team. Considering that rookie contracts are almost all bonus-based, Crosby might end up costing himself money by covering up his weaknesses playing in a boy's league.

S L
This guy is just trying to start something. :shakehead
 

Steve Latin*

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La-La-Laprise said:
S L

You lost all cred when you called Crosby weak.

Also players dont go to Europe to develop. What good would playing in a low contact league on big ice. How would that help develop you for the NHL?

I think you underestimate the contact in the European leagues. IMO, Ruutu learned the contact game quite well in the SEL and immediately entered the NHL as one of the top open-ice hitters in the game.

S L
 

Steve Latin*

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stockwizard said:
This guy is just trying to start something. :shakehead

What a cutting and pertinent retort to the argument that I presented. Clearly, you are letting your emotions get in the way of your response.

S L
 

Steve Latin*

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La-La-Laprise said:
S L

You lost all cred when you called Crosby weak.

Also players dont go to Europe to develop. What good would playing in a low contact league on big ice. How would that help develop you for the NHL?

Europe aside, if the WHA ever gets setup I see this as a perfect destination for Crosby and other dominant major junior performers. In the WHA Crosby could earn up to a milion for a single season and then still be eligable for the NHL draft (provided the language is included in his contract). How much does he earn in the Q?

S L
 

eye

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stockwizard said:
But what I am saying is if a player is really good at the age of 15 or 16, why not come over to the CHL instead of wasting time in some midget program in the U.S.
I can understand playing in the NCAA if you don't start to come on until you are 18.

Everyone develops at different ages, but if you are super skilled at a young age it shouldn't be a personal choice, it should be an obvious choice.

Okay, I'll get dragged into this debate once again. I can't stand reading misinformed opinions like yours without responding.

Eh? - The CHL is such a sure thing of getting players to the NHL that 3% actually make it - yes that's 3 out of every 100 CHL players actually get the chance and we can probably predict those 3 before they even choose CHL over the NCAA as most of these players are highly regarded at 15 like Crosby, Spezza etc.

If the CHL is so much better then why do 90% or more of ex-NHL players swaying their sons to choose the NCAA route over the CHL? This was posted many times before so it's a fact.

As for the original statement that started this thread Himelfarb, St. Pierre and Robinson who I have only seen on TV do not in my opinion have a hope and prayer of becoming NHL full time players regardless whether they were drafted or not. Isn't St. Pierre going to Canadian University because he wasn't offered a free agent contract by any NHL team? What did he do at this years Memorial Cup to help his cause? He isn't in Martin St. Louis elite category of small players that play much bigger than they are. Lets face it, until the NHL game changes the game favors bigger taller players that can check.

Why did players like Matt Foy and Mike Comrie average over 2 pts. per game in the CHL when they couldn't do it in the NCAA? Simple becuase like MN Gopher pointed out the NCAA is played by young men not boys. The training is far superior and longer and the players play a much better defensive game than the CHL does against better goaltenders. Now my argument is flawed somewhat because I always state my case by talking about the top 20 NCAA programs and agree there is more depth in terms of teams in the CHL that generate NHL prospects but I also know for a fact that less than 40% of CHL players would even be offered a full ride to one of the top programs in the NCAA. Very few if any 3rd line CHL players would ever get a scholly and that's a fact.
 

stockwizard*

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chaachie12 said:
do you think the top NCAA teams (Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, Boston College, Etc.) could play in the CHL? I think they would be very competitive.
That is totally irrelevant.
The only reason why they would be competitive, if they were, is because the players are very old in many cases.
There are a lot more U.S. players considering the CHL as opposed to Canadians going NCAA. Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid. I have read this many times.
Some NCAA scouts have given up scouting top talent in Canada in the 16 age range. They have very little change of landing them. They have resorted mainly to scouting 19 and 20 year olds who's eligibility is running out.
There are more NHL scoutd looking at the CHL, the coaches are better, the talent is better, and all you have to do is look at the draft results year after year if you have any doubts.
Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.
 

eye

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chaachie12 said:
do you think the top NCAA teams (Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, Boston College, Etc.) could play in the CHL? I think they would be very competitive.

My opinion and I have seen hundreds of CHL and NCAA games over the last 20 years is that the top NCAA teams would beat the top CHL teams 9 or 10 times out of 10 and beat them by 2-5 goals everytime. Like I said before your comparing men against boys. Not saying the top CHL players wouldn't be as skilled but they are definately not as developed and the smothering defensive schemes in the NCAA would nullify CHL talent. Most good NCAA teams roll 4 lines often very balanced while most CHL teams seem to rely on 2 lines and spot the 3rd line and see the 4th line 4 or 5 times in the first 2 periods and rarely in the 3rd. Now take a CHL team and let them play until they average 20 years of age and my answer might be different.
 

Oilers Chick

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stockwizard said:
That is totally irrelevant.
The only reason why they would be competitive, if they were, is because the players are very old in many cases.
There are a lot more U.S. players considering the CHL as opposed to Canadians going NCAA. Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid. I have read this many times.
Some NCAA scouts have given up scouting top talent in Canada in the 16 age range. They have very little change of landing them. They have resorted mainly to scouting 19 and 20 year olds who's eligibility is running out.
There are more NHL scoutd looking at the CHL, the coaches are better, the talent is better, and all you have to do is look at the draft results year after year if you have any doubts.
Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.

Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid.

Huh??? Just look at how many Canadian kids get scholarships. With the exception of the Ivies, Union College and handful of other schools in the CHA and AHC, every school offers scholarships to both American AND Canadian kids. The aforementioned exceptions do not offer scholarships because they either choose not to do so or (in the case of the Ivies) is not allow to offer athletic scholarships.


Where is your source(s) to back up your argument on these points:

1) some NCAA scouts have given up on scouting top talent in Canada

2) Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.

Because I can dispute these claims and have the data to back it up.
 

chaachie12

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stockwizard said:
That is totally irrelevant.

Why? IF the teams are better, shouldn't that mean a kid wouldn't be a "coward" to go play in that leauge? Who cares the age...and these aren't old men...most of these top teams in the NCAA (Minnesota for example) doesn't have many overagers at all...good is good.
 

Molson v. Labatt

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stockwizard said:
But what I am saying is if a player is really good at the age of 15 or 16, why not come over to the CHL instead of wasting time in some midget program in the U.S.
QUOTE]

In many cases, the best will play US juniors. The USHL sees alot of D-1 prospects go through it.

IMO, NCAA has gotten much stronger, especially if comparing it to 10-15 years ago. I think it's a good thing that there a 2 routes for hockey players in North America. More players are playing at a high level- it means the game is growing.

I was at the Memorial Cup in Quebec, will be at it in London, and hopefully in the next couple years will get a chance to compare the atmosphere and game to a Frozen Four.

One thing that I think needs to change is a consistency of the rules for leaving one to play in the other. I think the change is in the works, but NCAA players maintain the option to return to the CHL- but you don't see the opposite.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Oilers Chick said:
Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid.

Huh??? Just look at how many Canadian kids get scholarships. With the exception of the Ivies, Union College and handful of other schools in the CHA and AHC, every school offers scholarships to both American AND Canadian kids. The aforementioned exceptions do not offer scholarships because they either choose not to do so or (in the case of the Ivies) is not allow to offer athletic scholarships.


Where is your source(s) to back up your argument on these points:

1) some NCAA scouts have given up on scouting top talent in Canada

2) Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.

Because I can dispute these claims and have the data to back it up.

Damn right.

OC, don't bother. There's no point arguing with him.
 

college hockey

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stockwizard said:
That is totally irrelevant.
The only reason why they would be competitive, if they were, is because the players are very old in many cases.
There are a lot more U.S. players considering the CHL as opposed to Canadians going NCAA. Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid. I have read this many times.
Some NCAA scouts have given up scouting top talent in Canada in the 16 age range. They have very little change of landing them. They have resorted mainly to scouting 19 and 20 year olds who's eligibility is running out.
There are more NHL scoutd looking at the CHL, the coaches are better, the talent is better, and all you have to do is look at the draft results year after year if you have any doubts.
Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.
I hate to break it to you,but there are more Canadian kids looking at the NCAA then US kids looking at the CHL. The NCAA rosters are full of Canadian kids and in some cases
have more Canadian kids then American kids so there goes your scholarship argument too.
 

VOB

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Oilers Chick said:
Most U.S. schools would much rather offer a scholorship to an American kid than a Canadian kid.

Huh??? Just look at how many Canadian kids get scholarships. With the exception of the Ivies, Union College and handful of other schools in the CHA and AHC, every school offers scholarships to both American AND Canadian kids. The aforementioned exceptions do not offer scholarships because they either choose not to do so or (in the case of the Ivies) is not allow to offer athletic scholarships.


Where is your source(s) to back up your argument on these points:

1) some NCAA scouts have given up on scouting top talent in Canada

2) Most NCAA players never even finish their degree anyways.

Because I can dispute these claims and have the data to back it up.

Actually Oilers Chick the number of Canadians in the NCAA is decreasing and is a far cry from what it was 10 to 15 years ago. This year only 34 % of all incoming recruits are from Canada. There are two reasons for this. One I will explain further down, the other is simply that there are more Americans playing the game today and it is much easier to recruit from one's own backyard so to speak. Most every coach will take an American over an equally as good Canadian, simply because it is easier to do so (no visa issues to worry about, grade transfers, out of sate tuition ect ect). For a Canadian player to land a scholy, he must be better than his American counterpart that the school may also be looking at.


According to the NCAA, 40 percent of all student athletes fail to graduate (within a four year period)

Link http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003...gregate/DI.html

I am not sure what the hockey graduation rate is because it is not listed as a separate category. This is certainly nowhere near "most" as the other poster stated but what I think he may of meant was that many NCAA alums in the NHL never did finish their degrees within four years (which is as long as a scholarship can be active). Taking a look at many former college players in the NHL, I would have to agree with this statement.

I hate to post messages here without being able to give firm evidence but sometimes you just cannot release names so if you don't believe me, I understand. I have talked to a few assistant coaches of NCAA programs (who are the primary recruiters of their respective teams) and they have told me that it is becoming increasingly difficult to recruit in Canada, particularly Ontario and Quebec. Quebec of course is understandable with the language barrier and all but Ontario use to be fertile ground. The Ontario pipeline is being chocked off, however. One of the recruiters told me that he doesn't waste his time in scouting 16 and 17 year old players because once those players make contact, they want more than the team is willing to give. The reason is because of the OHL.

Most Ontario prospects are drafted by the OHL ( a fifteen round draft scoops up about just every decent player out there) and they freely make their draft status known to prospective recruiters. They are always sure to tell them that the OHL will at the minimum pay for their full tuition and books and of course they or their agents (you would be surprised by just how many 16 and 17 year olds are affiliated with agents today, its actually kind of sad) will say that they can of course negotiate a better deal since their OHL club is very high on him. As a result they demand a full or almost full ride to even consider the NCAA. Most college teams are very reluctant to give what in essence are 2nd tier players who have the chance to become decent college players when they are upperclassman but are in no way worth full scholarships right off the bat. Once the recruiter offers the standard 50 or 60% package, the lights go out and the door is shut (usually with the cry of don't let it hit you in the ass on your way out!) As this happens time after time, the recruiter gets a little jaded and sour. One of the recruiters has told me that he has drastically cut back his recruiting in Ontario because of this.

To be sure, kids are still recruited out of Ontario and the odd high end prospect is taken such as a Cogliano (though Michigan will be hold its breath until he actually arrives on campus) but for the most part the numbers coming from Ontario are at best stagnant (surprising since the number of new NCAA schools) or in most cases falling. Recruiters are getting tired of playing the games associated with recruiting kids from Ontario.

Recently Michigan State made a full court press for a young 16 year old player named Myles Applebaum, considered by many, including the NHL CSB, to be one of the top 16 year old player in Ontario. Applebaum told any OHL team that was listening that he was really impressed with the college game, loved the college atmosphere and planned on playing in the NCAA. Music to the ears of the big schools like Michigan and Michigan State. State offered him a full scholy and he gave his verbal commitment. The Kitchener Rangers took what everybody thought was a flier on the player with one of their two fifth round picks. He signed with Kitchener last week! The only good thing for Michigan State is that at least now they can bring that scholarship into play for someone else but this is just one example of what recruiting in Ontario is like today. Most of those players want big ticket rides and use the OHL as a bargaining chip in their favor.
As a result some (and I believe it is a growing number) have indeed backed off recruiting in that area and will only scout the 19 and 20 year olds who no longer have the OHL ploy in their favor.
 

cagney

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stockwizard said:
If you ask guys like Chelios they will tell you that the experience and knowledge they aquired from playing CHL hockey was irreplacable.

Chelios didn't play in the CHL. Link

Do you still think he has character?
 

Oilers Chick

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VOB said:
Actually Oilers Chick the number of Canadians in the NCAA is decreasing and is a far cry from what it was 10 to 15 years ago. This year only 34 % of all incoming recruits are from Canada. There are two reasons for this. One I will explain further down, the other is simply that there are more Americans playing the game today and it is much easier to recruit from one's own backyard so to speak. Most every coach will take an American over an equally as good Canadian, simply because it is easier to do so (no visa issues to worry about, grade transfers, out of sate tuition ect ect). For a Canadian player to land a scholy, he must be better than his American counterpart that the school may also be looking at.


According to the NCAA, 40 percent of all student athletes fail to graduate (within a four year period)

Link http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003...gregate/DI.html

I am not sure what the hockey graduation rate is because it is not listed as a separate category. This is certainly nowhere near "most" as the other poster stated but what I think he may of meant was that many NCAA alums in the NHL never did finish their degrees within four years (which is as long as a scholarship can be active). Taking a look at many former college players in the NHL, I would have to agree with this statement.

I hate to post messages here without being able to give firm evidence but sometimes you just cannot release names so if you don't believe me, I understand. I have talked to a few assistant coaches of NCAA programs (who are the primary recruiters of their respective teams) and they have told me that it is becoming increasingly difficult to recruit in Canada, particularly Ontario and Quebec. Quebec of course is understandable with the language barrier and all but Ontario use to be fertile ground. The Ontario pipeline is being chocked off, however. One of the recruiters told me that he doesn't waste his time in scouting 16 and 17 year old players because once those players make contact, they want more than the team is willing to give. The reason is because of the OHL.

Most Ontario prospects are drafted by the OHL ( a fifteen round draft scoops up about just every decent player out there) and they freely make their draft status known to prospective recruiters. They are always sure to tell them that the OHL will at the minimum pay for their full tuition and books and of course they or their agents (you would be surprised by just how many 16 and 17 year olds are affiliated with agents today, its actually kind of sad) will say that they can of course negotiate a better deal since their OHL club is very high on him. As a result they demand a full or almost full ride to even consider the NCAA. Most college teams are very reluctant to give what in essence are 2nd tier players who have the chance to become decent college players when they are upperclassman but are in no way worth full scholarships right off the bat. Once the recruiter offers the standard 50 or 60% package, the lights go out and the door is shut (usually with the cry of don't let it hit you in the ass on your way out!) As this happens time after time, the recruiter gets a little jaded and sour. One of the recruiters has told me that he has drastically cut back his recruiting in Ontario because of this.

To be sure, kids are still recruited out of Ontario and the odd high end prospect is taken such as a Cogliano (though Michigan will be hold its breath until he actually arrives on campus) but for the most part the numbers coming from Ontario are at best stagnant (surprising since the number of new NCAA schools) or in most cases falling. Recruiters are getting tired of playing the games associated with recruiting kids from Ontario.

Recently Michigan State made a full court press for a young 16 year old player named Myles Applebaum, considered by many, including the NHL CSB, to be one of the top 16 year old player in Ontario. Applebaum told any OHL team that was listening that he was really impressed with the college game, loved the college atmosphere and planned on playing in the NCAA. Music to the ears of the big schools like Michigan and Michigan State. State offered him a full scholy and he gave his verbal commitment. The Kitchener Rangers took what everybody thought was a flier on the player with one of their two fifth round picks. He signed with Kitchener last week! The only good thing for Michigan State is that at least now they can bring that scholarship into play for someone else but this is just one example of what recruiting in Ontario is like today. Most of those players want big ticket rides and use the OHL as a bargaining chip in their favor.
As a result some (and I believe it is a growing number) have indeed backed off recruiting in that area and will only scout the 19 and 20 year olds who no longer have the OHL ploy in their favor.

First off, the 40% fail to graduate rate applies more to D-1 basketball and football than ice hockey. The graduation rate of D-1 Ice Hockey players is very high. In fact, in a some cases, schools graduate ALL of their hockey players on a fairly consistent basis. You can look on many of the school sites for this info. Granted, they don't all graduate in the four year window. (I know that Jeff Jillson took classes via online while still with the Sharks to finish his degree and Dany Heatley was taking courses in the summer until the unfortunate auto accident towards finishing his degree). Now if you look at just who has been drafted (or have been signed as Free Agents) and has their degree, well here's a glimpse of the many who have accomplished that feat: Tom Preissing, Brendan Morrison, Ryan Malone, John-Michael Liles, Ty Conklin. Shall I go on?

Second, while recruiting may be down in Ontario, it seems to be increasing in Western Canada, specifically British Columbia. If look at this year's draft alone, look at how many kids are coming from the BCHL. Then you factor in the kids from Alberta, Saskatchewan and to a lesser extent, Manitoba...there is a large Canadian contingent represented in the NCAA.
 

VOB

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Oilers Chick said:
First off, the 40% fail to graduate rate applies more to D-1 basketball and football than ice hockey. The graduation rate of D-1 Ice Hockey players is very high. In fact, in a some cases, schools graduate ALL of their hockey players on a fairly consistent basis. You can look on many of the school sites for this info. Granted, they don't all graduate in the four year window. (I know that Jeff Jillson took classes via online while still with the Sharks to finish his degree and Dany Heatley was taking courses in the summer until the unfortunate auto accident towards finishing his degree). Now if you look at just who has been drafted (or have been signed as Free Agents) and has their degree, well here's a glimpse of the many who have accomplished that feat: Tom Preissing, Brendan Morrison, Ryan Malone, John-Michael Liles, Ty Conklin. Shall I go on?

Second, while recruiting may be down in Ontario, it seems to be increasing in Western Canada, specifically British Columbia. If look at this year's draft alone, look at how many kids are coming from the BCHL. Then you factor in the kids from Alberta, Saskatchewan and to a lesser extent, Manitoba...there is a large Canadian contingent represented in the NCAA.

Can you actually post these graduation stats OilersChick?

Rick DiPietro, Danny Heatley, Tanabe, Parise,Tkachuk, Weight, Amonte, Rolston, Kobesew, VanRyn, Parrish....shall I go on?

The BCHL has been holding steady while recruitment from Manitoba and Sasketewen have fallen through the floor!

There may be a large Canadian contigent represented in the NCAA but the unescapable fact is that it is declining and this year represents one of the, if not THE, lowest percentage rate of Canadian kids coming into the NCAA.
 

stockwizard*

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VOB said:
Actually Oilers Chick the number of Canadians in the NCAA is decreasing and is a far cry from what it was 10 to 15 years ago. This year only 34 % of all incoming recruits are from Canada. There are two reasons for this. One I will explain further down, the other is simply that there are more Americans playing the game today and it is much easier to recruit from one's own backyard so to speak. Most every coach will take an American over an equally as good Canadian, simply because it is easier to do so (no visa issues to worry about, grade transfers, out of sate tuition ect ect). For a Canadian player to land a scholy, he must be better than his American counterpart that the school may also be looking at.


According to the NCAA, 40 percent of all student athletes fail to graduate (within a four year period)

Link http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003...gregate/DI.html

I am not sure what the hockey graduation rate is because it is not listed as a separate category. This is certainly nowhere near "most" as the other poster stated but what I think he may of meant was that many NCAA alums in the NHL never did finish their degrees within four years (which is as long as a scholarship can be active). Taking a look at many former college players in the NHL, I would have to agree with this statement.

I hate to post messages here without being able to give firm evidence but sometimes you just cannot release names so if you don't believe me, I understand. I have talked to a few assistant coaches of NCAA programs (who are the primary recruiters of their respective teams) and they have told me that it is becoming increasingly difficult to recruit in Canada, particularly Ontario and Quebec. Quebec of course is understandable with the language barrier and all but Ontario use to be fertile ground. The Ontario pipeline is being chocked off, however. One of the recruiters told me that he doesn't waste his time in scouting 16 and 17 year old players because once those players make contact, they want more than the team is willing to give. The reason is because of the OHL.

Most Ontario prospects are drafted by the OHL ( a fifteen round draft scoops up about just every decent player out there) and they freely make their draft status known to prospective recruiters. They are always sure to tell them that the OHL will at the minimum pay for their full tuition and books and of course they or their agents (you would be surprised by just how many 16 and 17 year olds are affiliated with agents today, its actually kind of sad) will say that they can of course negotiate a better deal since their OHL club is very high on him. As a result they demand a full or almost full ride to even consider the NCAA. Most college teams are very reluctant to give what in essence are 2nd tier players who have the chance to become decent college players when they are upperclassman but are in no way worth full scholarships right off the bat. Once the recruiter offers the standard 50 or 60% package, the lights go out and the door is shut (usually with the cry of don't let it hit you in the ass on your way out!) As this happens time after time, the recruiter gets a little jaded and sour. One of the recruiters has told me that he has drastically cut back his recruiting in Ontario because of this.

To be sure, kids are still recruited out of Ontario and the odd high end prospect is taken such as a Cogliano (though Michigan will be hold its breath until he actually arrives on campus) but for the most part the numbers coming from Ontario are at best stagnant (surprising since the number of new NCAA schools) or in most cases falling. Recruiters are getting tired of playing the games associated with recruiting kids from Ontario.

Recently Michigan State made a full court press for a young 16 year old player named Myles Applebaum, considered by many, including the NHL CSB, to be one of the top 16 year old player in Ontario. Applebaum told any OHL team that was listening that he was really impressed with the college game, loved the college atmosphere and planned on playing in the NCAA. Music to the ears of the big schools like Michigan and Michigan State. State offered him a full scholy and he gave his verbal commitment. The Kitchener Rangers took what everybody thought was a flier on the player with one of their two fifth round picks. He signed with Kitchener last week! The only good thing for Michigan State is that at least now they can bring that scholarship into play for someone else but this is just one example of what recruiting in Ontario is like today. Most of those players want big ticket rides and use the OHL as a bargaining chip in their favor.
As a result some (and I believe it is a growing number) have indeed backed off recruiting in that area and will only scout the 19 and 20 year olds who no longer have the OHL ploy in their favor.
Thank you. Finally an American who is unbiased and who knows what he is talking about.

You have agreed to everything I have said.

You guys are a little overprotective of the NCAA. Results speak for themselves.
If there are Canadians in the NCAA most likely it is not a free ride, only a partial scholorship. It puts a sour taste in your mouth when you come out of the program and you owe $50,000.

Do a search on google if you don't believe me. There are numerous articles stating some of the same things I have. The NCAA is mainly just for late developing players who want to work on their degree.

I hope there are alot of 15 and 16 year old American kids reading this.
To all the Americans. If you are skilled and you dream of playing in the NHL, be a man, leave your mom and dad and come up to Canada to play CHL hockey. We will welcome you with open arms.

If you compare the average 18 year old in the CHL, to the average 18 year old in the NCAA, the CHL player would make the NCAA player look like a novice.

The only reason why NCAA skill level is high is because they are old.
What do you think Crosby should have done. Stay at Shattuck until he is 18 like Parise did? What a joke. By the time Crosby is 18, he will be excelling in the NHL.
 
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Auld Cents 20

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Apr 5, 2003
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CANADA
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I honestly feel that a player who has great potential is scouted no matter if he plays junior or if he goes American college route. If hes a good player hes gonna be scouted no matter where he plays.

Some players feel that going thru the CHL prepares ya better for an NHL career cause of the number of games played. Whereas American college is a lot like the European jr leagues, where they actually practicing more and work on fundamentals, than actually playing games.
 

db23

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stockwizard said:
Intimidation will always be a part of hockey. Fighting adds to the game IMO.

I have no doubt they have some great midget programs in the U.S.
The great Phenom Sidney Crosby was too huge in his home town so he decided to attend Shattuck, and from what I hear it is a great hockey program.

If you ask guys like Chelios they will tell you that the experience and knowledge they aquired from playing CHL hockey was irreplacable.

All I am saying that if I was from the U.S. and I was serious about making the NHL, I would come up and play CHL. If I was more serious about getting a degree I would go NCAA.

To me Kessel made a cowardly choice.
It is his own fault if he is punished come draft day.

Chelios never played in the CHL. He played a year of Tier II in the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey league before he went to Wisconsin. But Chelios was born in Chicago and grew up in California, so he didn't have a lot of local choices. Also, that was 25 years ago, things have changed a little since then.
 

college hockey

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Jun 8, 2004
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Maine
stockwizard said:
Thank you. Finally an American who is unbiased and who knows what he is talking about.

You have agreed to everything I have said.

You guys are a little overprotective of the NCAA. Results speak for themselves.
If there are Canadians in the NCAA most likely it is not a free ride, only a partial scholorship. It puts a sour taste in your mouth when you come out of the program and you owe $50,000.

Do a search on google if you don't believe me. There are numerous articles stating some of the same things I have. The NCAA is mainly just for late developing players who want to work on their degree.

I hope there are alot of 15 and 16 year old American kids reading this.
To all the Americans. If you are skilled and you dream of playing in the NHL, be a man, leave your mom and dad and come up to Canada to play CHL hockey. We will welcome you with open arms.

If you compare the average 18 year old in the CHL, to the average 18 year old in the NCAA, the CHL player would make the NCAA player look like a novice.

The only reason why NCAA skill level is high is because they are old.
What do you think Crosby should have done. Stay at Shattuck until he is 18 like Parise did? What a joke. By the time Crosby is 18, he will be excelling in the NHL.
And every kid in the CHL is like Crosby right? The kid is a freak and would more than likely playing in the NHL no matter where he played until he was 18. Kariya was a freak at the NCAA level at 18 and would have been head and shoulders above most everyone in the CHL,but that doesn't mean all NCAA players are the same. As far as the Scholarships go do you have proof that's true? I know at Maine they had 15 Canadian kids and 12 Americans this past year and more Canadians had full Scholarships than the American kids.
 
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