NCAA vs. CHL
- Thread starter Lost Kangaroo
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Lard_Lad
Registered User
Yeah, this topic should probably go into the automatically-closed category.
What usually happens, Lost Kangaroo, is that the relatively sane posters say that the age and experience difference would be too much for the CHL team to overcome. But a few blindly-loyal CHL fans won't go along with that, which brings out the blindly-loyal NCAA fans to argue with them, and within a day or two we've got a ten-page thread, the last nine pages of which don't add anything significant to what's said in the top half of the first page.
What usually happens, Lost Kangaroo, is that the relatively sane posters say that the age and experience difference would be too much for the CHL team to overcome. But a few blindly-loyal CHL fans won't go along with that, which brings out the blindly-loyal NCAA fans to argue with them, and within a day or two we've got a ten-page thread, the last nine pages of which don't add anything significant to what's said in the top half of the first page.
Here, I will sumarize what is about to happen and save everyone the time:
NCAAFan: NCAA teams would win.
CHLFan: Yeah, but only becasue they are older.
ncaaFan: Oh, I don't know about that.
CHLFan: If we could have all our same age prospects we would dominate, I mean who has more drafted players?
NCAAFan: Well, we have people leave early too. And the gap is much closer than before.
CHLFan: Rick Nash would dominate in the NCAA.
NCAA: Oh yeah? Well Mat Foy was a marginal NCAA player and then dominated the CHL when he left. What do you have to say about that?
CHLFan: Well, the players are older...
And around and around we go....
This gets an official:
NCAAFan: NCAA teams would win.
CHLFan: Yeah, but only becasue they are older.
ncaaFan: Oh, I don't know about that.
CHLFan: If we could have all our same age prospects we would dominate, I mean who has more drafted players?
NCAAFan: Well, we have people leave early too. And the gap is much closer than before.
CHLFan: Rick Nash would dominate in the NCAA.
NCAA: Oh yeah? Well Mat Foy was a marginal NCAA player and then dominated the CHL when he left. What do you have to say about that?
CHLFan: Well, the players are older...
And around and around we go....
This gets an official:
firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
chaachie12 said:Here, I will sumarize what is about to happen and save everyone the time:
NCAAFan: NCAA teams would win.
CHLFan: Yeah, but only becasue they are older.
ncaaFan: Oh, I don't know about that.
CHLFan: If we could have all our same age prospects we would dominate, I mean who has more drafted players?
NCAAFan: Well, we have people leave early too. And the gap is much closer than before.
CHLFan: Rick Nash would dominate in the NCAA.
NCAA: Oh yeah? Well Mat Foy was a marginal NCAA player and then dominated the CHL when he left. What do you have to say about that?
CHLFan: Well, the players are older...
And around and around we go....
This gets an official:
LMFAO!!!!
*applauds*
Lost Kangaroo
Registered User
I get the picture, sorry to bring up an old subject. I kinda figured the age difference would be a factor, and me and my roomate were just wondering. Lets just pretend I never brought it up.
Lost Kangaroo said:
no problem Kangaroo...trust me this is a hot topic, wars have been started for less!
how many players go from major jr to the NHL vs NCAA to NHL? Just wondering not trying to stir anything up.
Id personally like to see USHL winners vs. BCHL or something winners....
Id personally like to see USHL winners vs. BCHL or something winners....
I am sure more CHL players go NHL than NCAA. Although the gap is closing. Stafford, Montoya, Thelen, Zajac, Chucko, all NCAA went first round, plus Wheeler has committed to the gophers. With Nash taking on the NCAA. Dany Healtey in his first two years in the NHL had 146 points Nash had 96. I ll consede Heatley has a better teamate in Kovalchuk than anyone Nash has. But 50 points is alot. Now consider Heatly didn't lead the nation in scoring either of his two seasons in the NCAA. I would imagine playing 3-4 line in CHL is not fun and is a chance to show u can fight or attempt to do someting. Most 3-4 liners in college know they are not going to play past their senior year with a goal of a natioal championship. Playing a more coplete game in the NCAA. The oldest gopher is 25. Two 86 born players on roster. Yes guys like Nash, or Staal would be bery able to compete against the NCAA. But the fact is they leave juniors early. And the what if point is just a hypothetical arguement. While some good NCAAers stay at least to their sophmore year. Yes if all junior players stayed till they turned 23 they would win, but they don't. I just cant see a group of 17-19 year olds with some stars beating a team of 20-23 year olds with stars.
Whats really sad, is that dispite all the arguing over this issue, we never end up with a straight answer.
Consider this fact. All these teams at the World Junior Championships have CHL players on their roster. Canada, Czech Republic, U.S.A, Slovakia, Finland, Russia and Sweden.
Only this team has NCAA players on its roster- U.S.A.
Get the point?
Only this team has NCAA players on its roster- U.S.A.
Get the point?
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
VOB said:
Not really. The U.S. won the WJC's last year with more of a NCAA flavored team than this year. Besides, how many Americans or Canadians play in the Czech or Slovak junior leagues? The NCAA is an American institution governing athletics at U.S. universities. It's not viewed as a fast track option for professional athletes, at least in hockey circles, and there is the academic quotient as well. Why would Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Swedes, and Finns view the NCAA as a viable option towards furthering their hockey careers? It doesn't make any sense.
MN_Gopher said:
Not to perpetuate this...
I believe your premise with Heatley and Nash to be flawed. Heatley made his NHL debut at age 20.
Rick Nash has yet to play an NHL game in his 20s. Every one of his 154 games have been as a teenager.
willie
Registered User
McThome
Registered User
A fairly simple way to look at is that it would be fairly even with the NCAA probably having a bit of an edge because they're allowed to be much older. However, the quality of players from each league still heavily favours the CHL when you look at what each has produced.
Mess
Global Moderator
The reason is that all points are valid and no one knows how the result will turn out unless the game is played and then is it a game or a best of 7 series ..Papa Smurf said:
The 1980 US Olympic team won the gold medal as amateurs verses the never before beaten Russian All-stars simalat type players to the ones that the NHL faced in the 1972 Summit series but they had Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito etc ...
So anything is possible and Age and maturity is not the only factor nor any factor for that matter to determine the answer ..
The Heatley Nash is exactly what this post is about. A teen age Nash is not as good a 20 year old so Heatley. NCAA is 20 something CHL is teenagers. If CHL players stayed till their 20's it would be a different thread. NCAA is a better league. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT NCAA players go on to be better players. I would say CHL turns more and on average better players.
Rabid Ranger said:
And the U.S. has won how many medals with their NCAA flavored team Rabid?!?!
The point I am trying to make is that the CHL has the better talent, as evident by the number of CHL players on the rosters of the greatest hockey playing nations.
I will not dispute that the age factor comes into play but you cannot dismiss talent, especially when it is coupled with size.
Most of the NCAA players are not the best players in the league and in many cases not the best on the team. Take Drew Stafford for example wasn't one of the top 3 forwards on his team last year. The WJC are not the best NCAA players. I bet the all WCHA team might read. Evan Swabe(sorry misspelled) Ryan Potulny, Marty Sertich, Mark Stewart, and probally one of NoDak's d men. None are on junior team.
MN_Gopher said:
Was not Parise one of the better players in all of college hockey last year? Is not Drew Stafford one of North Dokota's top forward this year? Is not Hensick leading Michigan in scoring? Is not Montoya the starting goaltender for the Wolverines? Would Ryan Suter not be considered one of the best Dmen in the NCAA this year had he decided not to turn pro and become a regular in the AHL ( a league superior to the NCAA in every facet!)? Is not Goligoski one of the top offensive Dmen for the Gophs? Is not Likens one of Wisconsin's top Dmen? Is not Dowell one of their better forwards?
Wasn't Parise MVP and his team won gold? Give me F, Irman, Potulny, Murray, Sertich, Schabe, Backes and Earl all better in WCHA than Stafford. Yes the others are some the better players. But i would think that O'Sullivan and Crosby are the best in their leagues. Put the best NCAAers in the tourney. Michigen is 3-4-1 against non-conference. The CCHA is down.
What I am saying Gopher is that those players on the U.S. are not second rate college scrubs like you are implying. Are there better players in the NCAA, sure but not by much.
You really like Earl (who was eligible for this tourney but not picked) more than Strafford? You are kidding right?
You really like Earl (who was eligible for this tourney but not picked) more than Strafford? You are kidding right?
Earl averaging 1.3 points a game, Stafford .95. Yes i like Earl better. Seen both play live too.
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