NBA apologizes after China threatens pulling sponsorship $$

[Voight]

Ouch, Lebron is getting hammered on social media now..

It's been tough -

 

[Voight]

 

[EpochLink]

Rightfully so. He's acting as another mouthpiece for the CCP, despite claiming he's more than an athlete and bigger than basketball. There is no better time to stand up then right now and he folded.

Yeah, he realized that calling out China will cost himself, Nike and the league millions so he backed out.

His reputation is getting hammered right now, it’s gonna get worse.

The Lebron China memes are starting to get heavy social media track

 

[Voight]

Yeah, he realized that calling out China will cost himself, Nike and the league millions so he backed out.

His reputation is getting hammered right now, it’s gonna get worse.

I don't have an issue with that, its the extreme levels of hypocrisy.

He finds the word owner offensive but denying people basic human rights is OK, harvesting organs is OK, denying people free speech is OK.

 

[David Dennison]

I don't have an issue with that, its the extreme levels of hypocrisy.

He finds the word owner offensive but denying people basic human rights is OK, harvesting organs is OK, denying people free speech is OK.

So it's okay to shut your mouth about China's lack of freedoms, human trafficking, etc because you have business interests, but you have to be 100% consistent about it? What?

No doubt this is a bad look for the league and LeBron, but this logic makes me feel like "outrage" is coming from people whose head exploded when Kaepernick took a knee. Sone shit matters, some shit is a distraction from the shit that actually matters, and I put this controversy firmly in the latter.

 

[Voight]

So it's okay to shut your mouth about China's lack of freedoms, human trafficking, etc because you have business interests, but you have to be 100% consistent about it? What?

No doubt this is a bad look for the league and LeBron, but this logic makes me feel like "outrage" is coming from people whose head exploded when Kaepernick took a knee. Sone **** matters, some **** is a distraction from the **** that actually matters, and I put this controversy firmly in the latter.

Not sure what you're trying to get at here but LeBron shouldn't claim to be outraged about social and political issues and then turn a blind eye to China because they make him a lot of money. Speak out or don't, you don't or shouldn't pick and choose based on what suits you financially.

Luckily for him the USGov doesn't have any control over his business/endorsement deals, otherwise he wouldn't;t say squat about whats going on in the country.

The kicker was him suggesting Morey was ignorant and then attempting to say his team had a tough week .... the Chinese muslims in "re-education camps" would like a word with him.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

don’t think that every issue should be everybody's problem

Everytime he speaks he digs hole deeper

 

[Voight]

He's not getting out of this anytime soon.

 

[RadekBong]

Case in point



Weird how now, he feels the need to be fully educated on the topic.

As opposed to when?

 

[Voight]

As opposed to when?

When he talks about gun control, immigration things like that.

 

[RadekBong]

When he talks about gun control, immigration things like that.

You don't think it's possible he might just be better versed on those topics?

 

[canuckster19]

You don't think it's possible he might just be better versed on those topics?

You don’t get a free pass when you wield that much influence... sorry.

You apologize and shut your mouth, which he hasn’t done, or take the consequences like a man, which he obviously isn’t.

 

[Voight]

You don't think it's possible he might just be better versed on those topics?

Because democracy in China (or lack thereof) is so hard to understand? Its not exactly a complex and difficult topic..... gun control and immigration are very tricky topics that aren't just black and white. Theres a lot a person needs to understand. Kerr is just selfish and goes into fetal position when money is at stake.

Its worse because his BIL is apparently an expert on China/its history so apparently he has the fact check with him before saying anything - shocker, looks like Kerr never did and is hoping everyone will forget about it.

 

[David Dennison]

Because democracy in China (or lack thereof) is so hard to understand? Its not exactly a complex and difficult topic..... gun control and immigration are very tricky topics that aren't just black and white. Theres a lot a person needs to understand. Kerr is just selfish and goes into fetal position when money is at stake.

Its worse because his BIL is apparently an expert on China/its history so apparently he has the fact check with him before saying anything - shocker, looks like Kerr never did and is hoping everyone will forget about it.

Narrator: Democracy in China is extremely difficult to understand.

I doubt a lot of people knew there was a distinction between Hong Kong and China before the protests. A previously closed off nation rapidly becoming open to the rest of the world, and how citizen freedoms are changing. Its extremely f***ing complex.

 

[Albatros]

Narrator: Democracy in China is extremely difficult to understand.

I doubt a lot of people knew there was a distinction between Hong Kong and China before the protests. A previously closed off nation rapidly becoming open to the rest of the world, and how citizen freedoms are changing. Its extremely ****ing complex.

A previously closed off nation was rapidly becoming open to the rest of the world, but then started closing itself off again after Winnie the Pooh took over. This dispute is just one symptom of that. China is now becoming more closed and even more authoritarian, in some regions totalitarian, which many in Hong Kong find alarming.

 

[David Dennison]

A previously closed off nation was rapidly becoming open to the rest of the world, but then started closing itself off again after Winnie the Pooh took over. This dispute is just one symptom of that. China is now becoming more closed and even more authoritarian, in some regions totalitarian, which many in Hong Kong find alarming.

And good luck to him trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Raising the standard of living, giving people the means to travel outside the country, access to the internet, hell, even these protests are giving the Chinese good practice at using VPNs. Even if China were to cut off the NBA there, you don't think that is going to anger many Chinese against their government taking away their favorite entertainment? There is a ton of nuance to the concept of freedom, especially in a rapidly devloping (even waffling is changing) super power.

 

[Albatros]

Adult entertainment is already categorically banned in China and people widely use illegal sources to gain access to it online, if NBA basketball would be banned then people interested in it would just do the same. These are domestic services so the government doesn't really care, they won the battle over the internet a long time ago.

 

[David Dennison]

Making Sense of the China-NBA Firestorm, and Debating the Wealth Tax

Good converatiom on the topic from Harvard professors (first 15 mins of the podcast), obviously more nuanced than "Clay Travis said" or "LeBron is a hypocrite".

Main points are
-We are cureently going thru a rethinking of our trade policies with China of the last 30+ years, NBA is caught in the crossfire.
-A few companies (NYT, Economist for example) choose not to do business in China because of the censorship, but most companies swallow their tongue in order to get market access. Marriott put their tail between their legs when they pissed off China by recognizing Taiwan. Many other examples of this.
- If we only did business with countries who agreed with our values or aren't overly corrupt, we would be doing business with Canada, parts of Europe and that's about it. Mexico has tons of humans rights abuses and corruption, but not a peep about the NFL going there. The Middle East? Why just China?
-Companies can either engage with these countries or not, but engaging has definitely raised the quality of life and increased the freedoms of the Chinese over the past 30-40 years. Hundreds of millions lifted from extreme poverty can't be understated.
-Build bridges don't isolate, basketball is a cultural export and can bring two sides together. Like it or not, we need China to solve global issues, isolation isn't gonna solve issues or make China more free.
-Even Europes values on free speech are a little more restrained, things like Nazism in Germany are no-go zones. America's global economic power has diminished over the past 20 years as developing nations grow faster than us. The US is on the far end of the spectrum on free speech, we are gonna have to do business with countries that are less free.

 

[Voight]

Shaq gets it.

 

[Albatros]

Making Sense of the China-NBA Firestorm, and Debating the Wealth Tax

Good converatiom on the topic from Harvard professors (first 15 mins of the podcast), obviously more nuanced than "Clay Travis said" or "LeBron is a hypocrite".

Main points are
-We are cureently going thru a rethinking of our trade policies with China of the last 30+ years, NBA is caught in the crossfire.
-A few companies (NYT, Economist for example) choose not to do business in China because of the censorship, but most companies swallow their tongue in order to get market access. Marriott put their tail between their legs when they pissed off China by recognizing Taiwan. Many other examples of this.
- If we only did business with countries who agreed with our values or aren't overly corrupt, we would be doing business with Canada, parts of Europe and that's about it. Mexico has tons of humans rights abuses and corruption, but not a peep about the NFL going there. The Middle East? Why just China?
-Companies can either engage with these countries or not, but engaging has definitely raised the quality of life and increased the freedoms of the Chinese over the past 30-40 years. Hundreds of millions lifted from extreme poverty can't be understated.
-Build bridges don't isolate, basketball is a cultural export and can bring two sides together. Like it or not, we need China to solve global issues, isolation isn't gonna solve issues or make China more free.
-Even Europes values on free speech are a little more restrained, things like Nazism in Germany are no-go zones. America's global economic power has diminished over the past 20 years as developing nations grow faster than us. The US is on the far end of the spectrum on free speech, we are gonna have to do business with countries that are less free.

Does this approach have any limits? We could take that historical German regime, but as this is a basketball discussion let's go for Kim Jong-un instead. Does playing ball with him really bring people closer, or does it only give a horrible regime another platform while some individuals like Rodman get the opportunity to make money?

 

[EpochLink]

Shaq gets it.

Shaq is his own person, he stands up for what's right.

 

[David Dennison]

Does this approach have any limits? We could take that historical German regime, but as this is a basketball discussion let's go for Kim Jong-un instead. Does playing ball with him really bring people closer, or does it only give a horrible regime another platform while some individuals like Rodman get the opportunity to make money?

Cant it be more than one thing at once? The way we have interacted economically with China and other less-than-free nations over the last 40 years is 50 shades of grey, rarely black and white. The exceptions are probably NK and Cuba, and isolation hasn't exactly been an effective policy in those two cases, if anything that allows them to scapegoat the US for all of their ills. Do you throw out 50 years of free trade policy out the window because a popular athlete didn't say what you wanted him to say?

And yes, in the long run, free trade between nations absolutely brings the two closer. And there are absolutely power dynamics in both directions, Sino-NBA relations is one more ball China has to juggle with other unrest going on in their country. The US doesn't import Chinese sports, we don't care if one of their athletes bitches about our government, it has the potential to be a headache for China if the NBA finds their spine. You can't take away what someone has never had, if China was to blackout the NBA, it's just one more thing that they won't like about the government. And they are paying us millions for all of this, too.

And I'm not trying to defend the NBAs stance, they chose money over speaking up and they are paying the price.

My point is that every large corporation that does business in China must accommodate the government to get access to their markets, and none of them are speaking up, why is the criticism solely on the NBA?

The only response I have got to that question is "cuz LeBron is a hypocrite because of his other social stances", and that makes me skeptical if you really care about the freedoms of the Chinese or if it's just one more battle in the #CultuteWarz.

 

[Albatros]

Cant it be more than one thing at once? The way we have interacted economically with China and other less-than-free nations over the last 40 years is 50 shades of grey, rarely black and white. The exceptions are probably NK and Cuba, and isolation hasn't exactly been an effective policy in those two cases, if anything that allows them to scapegoat the US for all of their ills. Do you throw out 50 years of free trade policy out the window because a popular athlete didn't say what you wanted him to say?

Trade has never been free with China, such policies have failed for reasons that have nothing to do with the NBA. Even without the basketball affair we'd be at the end of that road. If the Chinese side wants free trade then they have to open up their market the same way we have opened ours.

My point is that every large corporation that does business in China must accommodate the government to get access to their markets, and none of them are speaking up, why is the criticism solely on the NBA?

Absolutely, the fault is not in how the NBA has been treated but in how others involved in same kind of behavior have not been treated. Hopefully that is changing now, at least awareness is on a different level.

The only response I have got to that question is "cuz LeBron is a hypocrite because of his other social stances", and that makes me skeptical if you really care about the freedoms of the Chinese or if it's just one more battle in the #CultuteWarz.

The CCP has the mandate of heaven to govern, so until recession hits China their rule is not seriously in question. But it does not mean that the global reach of the CCP could not be contained, it will have a price but I think that price is well worth paying.

 

[hector morrison]

Shaq gets it.

Didn't get to hear any responses from the other guys on the panel...but they looked uncomfortable. Of course he is correct...if China can't handle the truth then f*** 'em . Personally I am completely fed up with their poor quality crap they make. I make an extra effort to not purchase chinese products...difficult to be sure,but i can't name one ...not a single product from china that I have been satisfied with...ever! No one I know can tell me one item that that was made in china ,that they were satisfied with! Don't even want to get started on everything else I don't like about china...I think they are going for world domination.

 

[Voight]

Shaq is his own person, he stands up for what's right.

LeBron should too, but he'd rather make a few more millions that he doesn't need.