Nationality and US popularity

HabsByTheBay

Registered User
Dec 3, 2010
1,216
22
London
Sports are only as expensive as you want it to be. Sure, you can go out and buy 700$ skates, the latest composite stick for 250$, and pro-grade stuff.... but don't complain that it is costly. This stuff will not change your performance on the ice all that much. If you don't have a lot of money and the goal is just to get out there and play hockey, then you can get a wood stick for 20$, and can get the rest at a used sports store for next to nothing.

When I raced Karts, I was well-known for being thrifty, in a sport known for being expensive. It was to the point that it pissed people off. Equipment dealers were preaching that you needed the latest and greatest equipment to be fast, and people figured they needed to spend up the wazoo to even join and were turned off by it. Meanwhile, I only had a part-time student job so I raced the oldest Kart in the area (but I kept it well-maintained), with second-hand gear, and when big race teams were throwing out tires that were still 50% good (cause, ya know, gotta keep getting new ones!), I'd go get them in the trash bins, and beat them on the time sheets a few times!

..they started throwing out their tires elsewhere. They had not appreciated it. :)

The point of my little story is that, any sport is only as expensive as you want it to be. If you really want to play hockey and have even just a few bucks to spare, it can be done!

I grew up in California. Would you like to point me to a used sporting goods store that sells cheap, affordable skates?

There is a serious supply issue in non-traditional hockey areas. It's pretty easy for relatively poor kids in Massachusetts to get on the ice, less so in an area where there's only a couple rinks and not much of a local, hockey-playing community.
 

HabsByTheBay

Registered User
Dec 3, 2010
1,216
22
London
I would like to point you to this site: http://www.ebay.com/

Great deals on used hockey equipment there.

GHOST
Oh, that's convenient.

I can monitor ebay bids and scrounge around craigslist, or if my kid wants to play baseball, I can just walk into any sporting goods store in the area and get all the gear I need. Probably for cheaper.

It's like some people on this board can't really fathom that not everybody cares about hockey and that people don't want to have to jump through hoops to put their kid on the ice when they can just buy them a soccer ball, basketball, bat & glove instead.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
21,890
6,905
Toronto
How in the hell did this question:




Morph into:





The US is demographically dispersed. Kids in New England, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, the Upper Mid-West etc. can play on frozen ponds. Kids in Florida can't, but kids in large parts of California can.

The cost of organized sports of any type is rising to the point that disadvantaged families can no more afford organized football than they can organized hockey. In my area, kids have to pay $1000 per season to play High School football and Basketball in many districts. The economy and governmental deficits are squeezing out funding for sports. They pay the same for hockey.

Do Americans see it as un-American? It depends who you ask. The majority in the US aren't sports fans at all.

Do all Canadians love hockey? No...Not even the majority.

I bet that is incorrect. Almost everyone I know watches hockey and I live in the city, in the smaller towns I'd bet over 90% like to watch or play hockey. Maybe not religously but they probably watch at least a dozen games a year. Funny, some people like to play but never watch. My son for example played all his life and still plays at the age of 24. However I bet he hasn't watched 50 games in his entire life. Although he's been to a couple dozen live games, which is more than I have.
 
Last edited:

Fugu

Guest
How in the hell did this question:




Morph into:





The US is demographically dispersed. Kids in New England, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, the Upper Mid-West etc. can play on frozen ponds. Kids in Florida can't, but kids in large parts of California can.

The cost of organized sports of any type is rising to the point that disadvantaged families can no more afford organized football than they can organized hockey. In my area, kids have to pay $1000 per season to play High School football and Basketball in many districts. The economy and governmental deficits are squeezing out funding for sports. They pay the same for hockey.

Do Americans see it as un-American? It depends who you ask. The majority in the US aren't sports fans at all.

Do all Canadians love hockey? No...Not even the majority.

Here's how:


Oh, that's convenient.

I can monitor ebay bids and scrounge around craigslist, or if my kid wants to play baseball, I can just walk into any sporting goods store in the area and get all the gear I need. Probably for cheaper.

It's like some people on this board can't really fathom that not everybody cares about hockey and that people don't want to have to jump through hoops to put their kid on the ice when they can just buy them a soccer ball, basketball, bat & glove instead.

Maybe not so much an un-American thing but not available generally in the average American fabric of life. Non-American, as in atypical.
 

pass the bisk

Registered User
Aug 23, 2009
311
3
Ontario, Canada
As others have touched on, people grow up watching what they play. Hockey is an expensive sport so there aren't as many people getting into it as the other main american sports.
 

GreatCanadian

Registered User
Nov 25, 2010
126
1
New Brunswick
The bigger question for anyone to ask is... do you really want to/your kid to play hockey?

In this age of the internet, cheap equipment can be found online. Yes, there is eBay, Craigslist... hey, whatever it takes!
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
105,742
18,870
Sin City
The US is demographically dispersed. Kids in New England, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, the Upper Mid-West etc. can play on frozen ponds. Kids in Florida can't, but kids in large parts of California can.

Maybe 15-20% of California is mountains. But on the steep side, so there isn't the flat acreage needed to have a flat area for an outdoor rink. But skiing and snowboarding is much more prevalent than skating (figure or hockey) in those mountainous areas.

And the population centers (greater LA, SJ/SF bay area) are near the coast. Hours away from the nearest mountains that have snow through the cold months.

(And even if Death Valley may be cold enough in the winter to have a sheet of ice, there are not a lot of folks who live in that part of the desert. You have to head about 90 minutes east to get to Vegas.)
 

GreatCanadian

Registered User
Nov 25, 2010
126
1
New Brunswick
That is also a valid point. Hockey is rough sport. Parents don't exactly want to through their kids into such a violent game

I think you missed my point. I meant if there is a will to play, then it can happen. If the will is not there, or not there enough will... then that's a totally different issue.

Violent sport? Football can be violent too ;)
 

vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
Simple question then: So, people in Canada are significantly financially more well off than people in the US?

here in winnipeg, more kids play than in NY.
i do believe peoplehere have more disposible income. is that more better off?
well there are many variables. housing,heating,electricity, and property taxes in NY are super high, while in winnipeg they are extemely low(even with the carzy winters).my pay is basically the same as when i worked in NYC, and i have the same job as i did back there.yet i have money in the bank, while in NY, i was in a LOT of debt.
as someone who has lived in both countries, i have to say it is more affordable here.
but dont forget hockey is the sport up here, so many may find ways to pay for it no matter what.
 

Denny47

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
318
0
Ottawa
at this rate, if all the sons of nhlers play for the states...the states will just get better and better and popularity shall rise

gus like ray bourque's son and parise...
 

Murphy9

Registered User
Nov 8, 2010
563
0
St.Louis
I think its just a money thing.Its an expensive sport to play.Also matters where you live of course. In St.Louis soccer is probably the most popular sport because pretty much everyone plays it.Baseball is big and lacrosse has exploded among high schools here.Different cities play different sports.
 

vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
I think its just a money thing.Its an expensive sport to play.Also matters where you live of course. In St.Louis soccer is probably the most popular sport because pretty much everyone plays it.Baseball is big and lacrosse has exploded among high schools here.Different cities play different sports.

soccer is extemely popular here also. but when winter comes.....
 

Fidel Astro

Registered User
Aug 26, 2010
1,362
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Winnipeg, MB
www.witchpolice.com
I'm sick of hearing about how expensive hockey is. Obviously there's a lot more equipment that needs to be purchased than, say, soccer or baseball, but as many people have already discussed here, it doesn't have to be. Obviously in certain parts of the world, finding cheap used equipment isn't as easy as it is in traditional hockey towns, but I doubt it's as impossible as people are claiming.

Nobody needs $700 dollar skates when a $40 kids' pair can be purchased with relative ease. I don't do it myself, but most people these days will order pretty much everything, from books to furniture to movies to pizzas over the Internet. What's stopping someone from a non-traditional city from ordering a $40 pair of skates from a Canadian or northern US company a few months before the season starts so they arrive on time? Online purchases are so common these days. It's not like it's an alien concept.

I think the main difference, though, is that hockey for kids in colder cities is almost free, at least when it comes to recreational playing and practicing. If you can go down the street to an outdoor community centre rink and play for hours and hours every day, free of charge, you have a huge advantage over someone who can only visit an indoor rink for an hour of scheduled hockey once a week ...especially if the southern kid's parents have to pay a high cost for the ice time.

It's really, really simple. We have ice, therefore hockey is a natural sport for our climate and has become an integral part of the culture. For millions of Americans in the southern half of the US, hockey is a specialty sport with a high price tag. It's not that it's considered "un-American", it's just unaccessible to many kids (as others have said here) because you can't just play a pick-up game (for free) outdoors, so the kids never develop the same kind of attachment as they do to something like baseball or football or basketball. Grabbing a ball and heading to an outdoor basketball court in Atlanta is the same thing as grabbing some skates and heading to an outdoor rink in Winnipeg.

...or even more simply: we have a picture of kids playing hockey and a passage from "the Hockey Sweater" on the back of our five dollar bill, while a large number of Americans have never (and possibly will never) set foot on an ice rink. Despite what some people think, America and Canada have very different cultures, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think it's realistic to ever expect hockey in America to take off as it is in Canada.
 

MoreOrr

B4
Jun 20, 2006
24,420
438
Mexico
The US is demographically dispersed. Kids in New England, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, the Upper Mid-West etc. can play on frozen ponds. Kids in Florida can't, but kids in large parts of California can.

The cost of organized sports of any type is rising to the point that disadvantaged families can no more afford organized football than they can organized hockey. In my area, kids have to pay $1000 per season to play High School football and Basketball in many districts. The economy and governmental deficits are squeezing out funding for sports. They pay the same for hockey.

Do Americans see it as un-American? It depends who you ask. The majority in the US aren't sports fans at all.

Do all Canadians love hockey? No...Not even the majority.

Two points:
1. I never said that there aren't regions in the US where hockey may have a relatively high standing as a sports option.
2. I also never said that I actually agree with the OP in that people in the US view hockey as "un-American". I simply said that in general, hockey is lower down the sports priority list, and then in many cases when it might ultimately be considered that the cost then comes into play. When we're talking about a population that in general has a wide sports menu, and with various sports much better established ahead of hockey, and with access to playing the sport limited in many parts of the US, it seems only natural that hockey wouldn't have a high standing, regardless of cost. Cost then just becomes another obstacle.
 

Fugu

Guest
It's really, really simple. We have ice, therefore hockey is a natural sport for our climate and has become an integral part of the culture. For millions of Americans in the southern half of the US, hockey is a specialty sport with a high price tag. It's not that it's considered "un-American", it's just unaccessible to many kids (as others have said here) because you can't just play a pick-up game (for free) outdoors, so the kids never develop the same kind of attachment as they do to something like baseball or football or basketball. Grabbing a ball and heading to an outdoor basketball court in Atlanta is the same thing as grabbing some skates and heading to an outdoor rink in Winnipeg.

...or even more simply: we have a picture of kids playing hockey and a passage from "the Hockey Sweater" on the back of our five dollar bill, while a large number of Americans have never (and possibly will never) set foot on an ice rink. Despite what some people think, America and Canada have very different cultures, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think it's realistic to ever expect hockey in America to take off as it is in Canada.

Once again, you're oversimplifying. It's not a Canada vs US thing. Several northern US states have the same tradition of playing hockey. Our local high schools all have teams, and I have two OHL teams within a one hour drive; two NCAA teams; one NHL team; an AHL team about 2 hrs from here; a couple USHL teams within an hour or so, and the whole Little Caesar's development program for the really serious guys-- AND the US U18 NTDP right in my proverbial backyard. I know parents who coach Lidstrom's kids (with Nick watching from the stands). We have a TON of hockey here.
 

armpit

Registered User
Jul 12, 2010
34
0
well said, Fidel...


and Fugu, I agree with you as well...it's a northern US/Canadian thing....and that's not wrong...it's just the way it is...
 

29dryden29

Registered User
Jul 4, 2010
3,393
1
London Ont
I would like to point you to this site: http://www.ebay.com/

Great deals on used hockey equipment there.

GHOST

Problem is Ghost I would never ever put a kid learning the game and learning to skate into used skates. They have already been broken in for someone elses foot structure and shape not condusive to aiding a new skater in good fit or support from the skate. Yes I used to work in the industry and have seen how detrimental putting kids in used and cheap entry level skates can be to them learning to skate correctly and have the support and protection they need. Hockey is not a game for many simply based on cost alone not to mention the cost of signing up to just play on a team for houseleague for most kids here is 500 dollars plus just to register that isn't taking into account competative hockey and their costs.
 

Fidel Astro

Registered User
Aug 26, 2010
1,362
53
Winnipeg, MB
www.witchpolice.com
Once again, you're oversimplifying. It's not a Canada vs US thing. Several northern US states have the same tradition of playing hockey. Our local high schools all have teams, and I have two OHL teams within a one hour drive; two NCAA teams; one NHL team; an AHL team about 2 hrs from here; a couple USHL teams within an hour or so, and the whole Little Caesar's development program for the really serious guys-- AND the US U18 NTDP right in my proverbial backyard. I know parents who coach Lidstrom's kids (with Nick watching from the stands). We have a TON of hockey here.

I don't mean to question the passion for hockey in the northern US. It's obviously there.

If you take both countries as a whole, though, hockey is an incredibly important part of Canadian culture nationwide, whereas it's only culturally relevant to a select few US states. Something like baseball would probably fill the 'coast to coast part of the culture' category in the US better than hockey. That's all.

No criticism of hockey in the northern states, though. I'm in favour of the southern teams being relocated to Canada and cities in the northern US.
 

Fidel Astro

Registered User
Aug 26, 2010
1,362
53
Winnipeg, MB
www.witchpolice.com
Problem is Ghost I would never ever put a kid learning the game and learning to skate into used skates. They have already been broken in for someone elses foot structure and shape not condusive to aiding a new skater in good fit or support from the skate. Yes I used to work in the industry and have seen how detrimental putting kids in used and cheap entry level skates can be to them learning to skate correctly and have the support and protection they need. Hockey is not a game for many simply based on cost alone not to mention the cost of signing up to just play on a team for houseleague for most kids here is 500 dollars plus just to register that isn't taking into account competative hockey and their costs.

Almost everyone I knew growing up wore used skates and used equipment, myself included. No one, to my knowledge, ever had a problem due to used gear. I'm sure it can happen, but I don't think used skates are an issue for most kids.
 

29dryden29

Registered User
Jul 4, 2010
3,393
1
London Ont
Almost everyone I knew growing up wore used skates and used equipment, myself included. No one, to my knowledge, ever had a problem due to used gear. I'm sure it can happen, but I don't think used skates are an issue for most kids.

In the years past you are correct not so much but with all teh new skates even my 3 year old daughters they bake em put em on and form them to your fett not to someone elses feet but your feet. I know my feet aren't going to be the same as joe down the street let alone some person looking for used skates on e bay etc. It really is not advisable or a good idea.
 

Kritter471

Registered User
Feb 17, 2005
7,714
0
Dallas
I would not buy gear online for my (hypothetical) kid or for myself until we could try it on and see if it fits. No use throwing $40 away if the skates are a size too small or the gloves five years too big.

Online is a great way to buy things for an adult who knows his or her sizing (and even then it's a risk because sizing changes brand to brand - I was out $150 when the pair of CCM 6D skates I bought were smaller than the 6D RBKs I wear) or if you have a store in the area where you can try on new gear and then purchase a used piece online. But if you have no access to something to try on, it's a lot less appealing.
 

HabsByTheBay

Registered User
Dec 3, 2010
1,216
22
London
I think one thing about equipment is you can't just try hockey. For example, I played rugby in high school and new players were told to just bring their football or soccer cleats to practice. Investment was limited to a good pair of rugby shorts ($20), long socks ($5) and a mouthguard ($5). It's going to take a couple hundred bucks to outfit your kid to play hockey, even if it's used, and as I've said a billion times, there's not that much used equipment out here in California.

The ice time is the real killer, as well as the lack of school participation. Just to play for the hockey team at the ice rink in SF takes the money and commitment of a travel team in baseball, and if you're spending the $ for that in baseball, at least you probably think your kid is pretty good.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
359
Chicago
All this "too expensive" stuff is putting the cart before the horse in a major way. The reason nobody in Georgia is playing hockey isn't because it's too expensive, it's because nobody in Georgia is all that interested in playing hockey in the first place. There is an enormous cultural gap there... outside of the Great Lakes and the Northeast, hockey has very little presence. It's no surprise that the areas where hockey actually registers in this country are 1) cold and 2) near the Canadian border. Hockey's history in those regions goes back almost as far as it does in Canada and the popularity of the game owes itself to a variety of unique cultural and environmental factors that simply aren't present elsewhere. Simply throwing an NHL team in Atlanta isn't going to do anything immediately... people have to come to the game naturally, and interest will grow over a couple of generations. I wish more people could figure this out. To most Americans, hockey is a foreign game... why do you think the stereotypical hockey player you see in American media is always a French Canadian? To drive home the otherness of the sport.

Even in its American hotbeds, hockey isn't universally popular. Since it doesn't resonate with the majority of Americans, it's presence in the media is minor to say the least. I know plenty of people from Michigan and New England who love sports but couldn't care less about hockey. Why? Because "nobody cares about hockey... don't you watch ESPN?". This is an issue that's not easily solved, but it's at the root of many of the NHL's struggles. Perception is often stronger than reality, and in this case the perception that hockey is irrelevant is so pervasive. Until that's solved, hockey will always be at a disadvantage.

And another thing: I think hockey's status as sports priority 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in Canada isn't long for the world. There's a combination of factors at play... why would a poor immigrant family want to spend to put their kid on skates when they could enroll him in a soccer league for pennies and watch him play a sport their familiar with? With the massive immigration Canada is experiencing, it's a realistic situation. I've personally met a number of first generation Canadians who see hockey as a white person's sport... the lack of diversity will hurt the game in Canada eventually, just like it has in the US. Plus, hockey is at critical mass... there is no room to grow. A bit of a decline is only natural.
 

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