International: National Team

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Herman the German, May 9, 2016.

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  1. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    What are the excuses now? One point against France and yesterday a loss against Finnland, who put the breaks on after the first period.:help:
     
  2. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    Excuses for what exactly?

    They lost against France in a shootout, tough luck, that wasn't supposed to happen, but it's hardly out of the ordinary. They have lost against France in the past as well, and are behind them in the world rankings as well. Switzerland has lost against Kazakhstan and Norway, is their hockey-system about to implode because of that?
    It certainly was a game they should have won, based on both how the play went and how important the points were for having any chance at the quarterfinals, but France is hardly a team Germany has to beat ten times out of ten.

    Losing against Finland is the norm, they haven't beaten them in over 20 years, what exactly did you expect?
     
  3. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    Germany should beat France and not after penalty shots. Finnland, small population dominated Germany. A game against the Slovaks could go either way. Then there is Canada and that should be an interesting loss. Belarus(my bad) game, should be a win but it won't be, I hope that I am wrong. Against USA, good skating team but can't score but still a loss for Germany. When it comes time to play Hungary, guys are tired(mentally)but they will win a close one. After that, then the excuses will be coming out. First off, with the NHL players and players from the DEL, talk was about the quarter finals and now? Thank the IIHF, Germany gets to stay in the A group. Germany was always compared to the Swiss, a small populated country and now France is a comparison? Wake up Germany the next big hockey nations Slovenia:sarcasm:, Poland:sarcasm:, are on their way and then once again excuses come out. Some advice, reduce import rule, let top talented players, play and not sit on the bench or be given to an Oberliga team, improve coaching in the DNL, it is terrible, there isn't any development, games are won based on talent and not team play. Most of these coaches have been nowhere in their lives, as players, how would they know what it takes to be a pro? It is called PLAYER DEVELOPMENT, which is next to none. Ich habe fertig.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  4. LemmyUlanov55

    LemmyUlanov55 4th line grinder

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  5. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    What exactly does a small population have to do with anything?
    Canada has much less citizens than Germany as well, yet I don't think anyone expects Germany to be better at hockey than Canada.

    What matters is the number of players, and Germany doesn't have a whole lot of those, in fact, quite a bit less than Finland for example.

    Bulgaria?
    Seriously?

    The rest is nothing but drivel. Germany is exactly where it has been for quite a long time. And people like you have whined about the impending doom of German hockey for ages, yet it never happened. Thing is, there are six dominant hockey nations. Slovakia used to be among them, but has taken significant steps back in the recent past. Beyond that, you have a whole bunch of countries whose performances go up and down over the years, sometimes one country does well, sometimes another. Belarus failed in three tournaments in a row, before now making the quarterfinals twice. Germany failed in 2009 and followed that up by two very good tournaments. This is true for all the average nations, be it Switzerland, Germany, Latvia, Belarus, Norway, Denmark, France or whoever else you can think of.

    They all have good phases and bad phases, and none of them is able to get ahead of the others. France, just Denmark or Latvia, is currently at the lower end of group, but that doesn't mean they won't have good years that push them above others. All of these nations can beat the others, it is nonsensical to suggest that Germany should always beat France. Germany should generally beat France, but not even the best nations beat France all the time, so why would you expect the average nations to do so?

    By the way, here are the finishes for all non-elite nations at the last ten World Championships, going from most recent to 2006:

    Belarus: 7, 7, 14, 14, 14, 10, 8, 9, 11, 6
    Switzerland: 8, 10, 2, 11, 9, 5, 9, 7, 8, 9
    Slovakia: 9, 9, 8, 2, 10, 12, 10, 13, 6, 8
    Germany: 10, 14, 9, 12, 7, 4, 15, 10, 9, -
    Norway: 11, 12, 10, 8, 6, 9, 11, 8, 14, 11
    France: 12, 8, 13, 9, 12, 14, 12, 14, -, -
    Latvia: 13, 11, 11, 10, 13, 11, 7, 11, 13, 10
    Denmark: 14, 13, 12, 13, 11, 8, 13, 12, 10, 13
    Austria: 15, -, 15, -, 15, -, 14, -, 15, -
    Slovenia: 16, -, 16, -, 16, -, -, 15, -, 16
    Italy: -, 15, -, 15, -, 15, -, 16, 12, 14
    Kazakhstan: -, 16, -, 16, -, 16, -, -, -, 15
    Hungary: 16th in 2009
    Ukraine: 12th in 2006, 16th in 2007

    Oh look, basically all the nations go up and down, who would have thought? :sarcasm:
    By your logic Belarus was about to vanish into the netherworlds of hockey in 2013, guess how that turned out the next two years... Switzerland had its tough years and Slovakia missed the quarterfinals four years in a row. Norway hasn't managed to match its peak years in the recent past, while Latvia and Denmark have been looking for their form for years. All of that is nothing but the usual circle that happens to all the average nations.

    There are plenty of things Germany could do to improve in hockey, but as it is right now, Germany isn't one bit different from all the other nations in its vicinity, neither falling behind nor getting ahead.
     
  6. I had feeling that Team Germany was on right path with Krupp as coach, too bad he left. Hopefully Sturm can match his performances (two quarters).
     
  7. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    @sanderson, I have to disagree, Germany did not qualify for the Olympics, the IIHF has changed the format of the world rankings which has saved Germany from moving down and if that would happen, yikes. People running hockey in Germany are going to have to stop filling their pockets and start giving out money for development and better coaching.
     
  8. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    By the way.....stats are for losers.:nopity:
     
  9. Munchkin10

    Munchkin10 Registered User

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    I think our team is doing fine, our defense sure is going to be a lot weaker. However I think we are going to see one of the best German forward group in the teams history. Imagine in 5 years we will have Kuhn-Drai-Rieder in there prime. Not to mention players that also could potentially develop into the NHL like Tiffels, Wiederer, Eder, Kahun, Valenti, Bokk, Eisenschmid, Reichel etc. I think Germany will be just fine.
     
  10. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    @munchin10. 5 of the players you have named, which I believe, played and DEVELOPED in North America. One of my comments was player development. Why do our young players leave?
     
  11. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    List of players who developed in North America, I am sure there are more or were more, which leads me to my question, why?

    Draisaitl
    Rieder
    Sekesei
    Kislinger
    Greiss
    Niederberger
    Kircher
    Latta
    Latta
    Tiffels
    Eisenschmidt
    Kuhnhackel
    Fischaber
    Bergmann
    Albertshauser
     
  12. Munchkin10

    Munchkin10 Registered User

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    NA development is clearly better than Germany's.
     
  13. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    The IIHF hasn't changed anything at all. The ranking are exactly like they have always been. Not that the rankings have anything to do with relegation anyway.

    Not qualifying for the Olympics doesn't mean anything at all. Slovenia and Austria qualified the last time around, yet they happily get relegated anytime they make it back to the main World Championship.

    German hockey isn't going anywhere. There are no nations that are about to surpass it. There are only the same nations showing the same ups and downs like they have shown for years and decades.

    Right, why look at the actual performance if you can just use some completely arbitrary nonsense instead :sarcasm:
    Everything that actually exists directly contradicts your view.

    Players don't suddenly appear out of nowhere at age 16/17, they developed prior to that. Not to mention that North American teams don't just sign these players because they have a soft spot for Germany, they sign them because they think they are talented.

    Germany is far from having a great junior system, but the players develop just fine compared to similar nations. It's not like players from those nations all develop at home, they do just the same thing German players do. All the good Danes moves to Sweden, plenty of players from all over Europe move to North America.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  14. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    @ sanderson wow you seem to know your stuff,,,,,not. Did I hit a nerve? Coaching in the youth programs across Germany are at a low standard. Tell me one good coach in the DNL. Like you, I would like to see a top national team but the development ratio to players playing at a top level are low and that is a direct reflection of DNL coaching.
     
  15. SemireliableSource

    SemireliableSource Liter-a-cola

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    lol Herman, you're actually agreeing with Sanderson by knocking the coaching in the DNL. He also points out that most German kids are trained in Germany before they even make it to the DNL/North American juniors.

     
  16. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    Seriously?
    Yet another completely incoherent post with no content beyond insults.

    You put up completely nonsensical post, I refute it with facts. You ignore those facts and put up a "we are doomed!11one!" post, I show you that nothing you say can be proven by any means. I give you the actual results and the explanations for why things are the way they are. You counter with some drivel that couldn't be any less true (IIHF changing the rules for example) and go on to say that the very things that define success/failure are irrelevant, which makes no sense at all.

    Now you once again ignore all those things (probably because you don't have any valid arguments) and then continue to talk about a point that I never questioned. No, I won't name you a "good DNL coach", because I never said that the DNL has really good coaches, something you would realise if you would actually read the posts you quote. What you continue to ignore (among quite a few other things) is that other nations of a similar level aren't faring any better, and that neither the pros nor the junior teams show any significant downward trend. Just because our junior system isn't particularly good, doesn't mean that other countries have a better one or are about to surpass us.

    "Hit a nerve"?
    You are the one who panicked and threw around doom-scenarios and insults, I was the one who calmly gave the actual data and the specific reasons why things are the way they are. In other words, if someone's nerves got hit, it would be yours.
     
  17. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    Super Germany, great game, gogogogogogold!:handclap:
     
  18. Herman the German

    Herman the German Registered User

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    @ sanderson,,,,peace no war,,,,,ok? i apologise if I offended you in any way.
     
  19. JVR

    JVR HeadHitsAreNotIllega

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    Sanderson, just letting you know that I enjoy your posts, they are well informed and sensible don't let certain posters with agressive attitude get to you too much!
     
  20. kalle wirsch

    kalle wirsch Registered User

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    :handclap::handclap::handclap:
     
  21. Eye of Ra

    Eye of Ra Registered User

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    If Germany played in World Cup, how would the team look like?
     
  22. jnk96

    jnk96 @janikbeichler

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    Probably the same as the Olympic qualifying team. I don't know what the lines were exactly, but something like this:


    Tobias Rieder - Leon Draisaitl - Brooks Macek
    Tom Kühnhackl - Felix Schütz - Patrick Reimer
    Philipp Gogulla - Patrick Hager - Marcel Noebels
    Marcus Kink - Marcel Goc - Dominik Kahun
    David Wolf

    Christian Erhoff - Korbinian Holzer
    Dennis Seidenberg - Daryl Boyle
    Sinan Akdag - Moritz Müller
    Frank Hördler

    Thomas Greiss
    Philipp Grubauer
    Dennis Endras
     
  23. Dfire

    Dfire Registered User

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    Schubert, Sulzer, and Braun might be defending instead of Hördler, Akdak and Müller especially if they play on small ice.

    To me it's unclear though how much say national federations have in roster selection for this tournament - and which regulations apply. I'm guessing the NHL would also want Heatley in there.
     
  24. jnk96

    jnk96 @janikbeichler

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    Definitely not Schubert. Sulzer and Braun, maybe. But Akdag should definitely be on the team - I actually think he could go to North America sometime soon, if he finds a team.

    As to the national federations question, it has nothing to do with them. The NHL just created its own national teams and selected personnel for them, including a general manager. That's who nominates the teams.
     
  25. kalle wirsch

    kalle wirsch Registered User

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    roster for the Deutschlandcup

    Pos Nr. NAME VORNAME Geb. Stick H W Team LS
    Torhüter
    T 30 TREUTLE Niklas 29.04.91 L 1,87 85 Krefeld Pinguine 7
    T 31 BRÃœCKMANN Felix 16.12.90 L 1,80 83 Grizzlys Wolfsburg 21
    T 35 NIEDERBERGER Mathias 26.11.92 L 1,80 80 Düsseldorfer EG 10
    Verteidiger
    V 2 REUL Denis 29.06.89 R 1,93 110 Adler Mannheim 65
    V 3 KRUEGER Justin 06.10.86 R 1,90 98 SC Bern 85
    V 11 NOWAK Marco 23.07.90 R 1,88 93 Düsseldorfer EG 2
    V 16 ABELTSHAUSER Konrad 02.09.92 L 1,95 96 EHC Red Bull München 0
    V 34 KOHL Benedikt 31.03.88 R 1,80 84 ERC Ingolstadt 74
    V 40 KRUPP Björn 06.03.91 L 1,91 95 Grizzlys Wolfsburg 21
    V 41 MÜLLER Jonas 19.11.95 L 1,83 88 Eisbären Berlin 9
    V 82 AKDAG Sinan 05.11.89 L 1,88 89 Adler Mannheim 66
    Stürmer
    S 9 FLAAKE Jerome 02.03.90 L 1,89 92 EHC Red Bull München 43
    S 18 HOSPELT Kai 23.08.85 L 1,85 86 Kölner Haie 107
    S 19 OPPENHEIMER Thomas 16.12.88 R 1,86 95 ERC Ingolstadt 38
    S 21 KRÄMMER Nicolas 23.10.92 L 1,86 94 Kölner Haie 24
    S 27 UVIRA Sebastian 26.01.93 L 1,88 95 Kölner Haie 11
    S 39 GREILINGER Thomas 06.08.81 R 1,80 98 ERC Ingolstadt 120
    S 42 EHLIZ Yasin 30.12.92 L 1,77 83 Thomas Sabo Ice Tigers 34
    S 43 FAUSER Gerrit 13.07.89 L 1,82 89 Grizzlys Wolfsburg 17
    S 55 SCHÜTZ Felix 03.11.87 L 1,81 89 Rögle BK 116
    S 83 PFÖDERL Leonhard 01.09.93 R 1,82 87 Thomas Sabo Ice Tigers 15
    S 86 PIETTA Daniel 09.12.86 L 1,84 94 Krefeld Pinguine 86
    S 87 GOGULLA Philip 31.07.87 L 1,88 87 Kölner Haie 144
    S 89 WOLF David 15.09.89 L 1,91 99 Adler Mannheim 25
    S 93 RAEDEKE Brent 29.05.90 L 1,83 86 Adler Mannheim 15
    S 95 KASTNER Maximilian 03.01.93 L 1,78 86 EHC Red Bull München 0
    Team-Staff
    STURM Marco Head-Coach / GM
    MERK Klaus Team-Manager
    ABSTREITER Tobias Assistant Coach
    HECHT Jochen Assistant Coach
    DALLAIRE Patrick Assistant Coach
    EGELSEER Johannes Fitness Coach
     

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